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Old 2013-05-16, 21:48   Link #1
relentlessflame
 
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Changes to Index/Railgun Sub-Forums

Hi everyone --

We made some experimental changes to the structure of the Index/Railgun sub-forums to help deal with spoilers and "on-topic" issues. Here are the changes:

1. The Index and Railgun sub-forums have been split.

Threads that were formally joined have been moved to the Index sub-forum (since it's the base), but new threads will probably be created for Railgun.


2. We have, for the first-time, tried creating sub-forums under each of these sections specifically for discussion of the source material.

- Index Novel/Manga Readers
- Railgun Manga Readers

So as you may have gathered from this split, the idea is that the parent forums are only anime-related (or things that are truly generic), and topics related to the novel/manga can go in the appropriate sub-forum, but we also allow thread requests in those sub-forums (and they also have their respective Q&A thread). So the idea is that rather than having everything bunched up into a few threads, many threads can be created related to the source material, just like we have many threads for the anime, and each thread can be more focused. So, for example, threads could be created for each story arc, or for each newly-released volume, or... well, I'd like the fan community to think about it and make a proposal about how to organize it.

The basic rules are:
- each thread should have a single defined focus
- no thread should be a "chat room" or "social club"
- no shipping threads
- nothing that is otherwise forbidden by our forum rules (incl. no posting of raws, etc.)


Anyway, as this is an experiment, I don't yet know how this will turn out, but we want to see if this approach makes it easier for source readers to keep inappropriate comments/spoilers/hints out of anime threads by having a dedicated section to discuss the source material.

I welcome your comments, but I also ask that we try this format out for a little while to see how things go. If it really doesn't go well, then we may change and try something else later.
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Old 2013-05-16, 21:55   Link #2
Ilidsor
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Well I guess this doesn't really change anything much except how many clicks I have to do to see everything so I'm okay with it.

Quote:
So, for example, threads could be created for each story arc, or for each newly-released volume
This actually sounds like a really good idea. I would be 100% behind this.
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Old 2013-05-16, 22:09   Link #3
Marina2
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At least, I think you should keep Image Thread in the same way. (both Index/railgun images are allowed).

I don't see the point to divide it, really.
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Old 2013-05-16, 22:16   Link #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
At least, I think you should keep Image Thread in the same way. (both Index/railgun images are allowed).

I don't see the point to divide it, really.
Well, I expect that the Index thread will remain the primary because Index is the source. But, by the same token, that Index image thread is massive, and splitting it into smaller parts may make it easier to find things (so less re-posts). There are also a lot of Index images that don't really apply to Railgun at all, and Railgun-only viewers may not want to dig through it all. At the same time, we don't necessarily want people to re-post in the two threads...

Anyway, I'm not sure if there's a really good answer to this issue... it's complicated.
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Old 2013-05-17, 00:05   Link #5
Marcus H.
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I feel like this split is too much of a knee-jerk reaction to the current issues with Index fans spoiling plot content for Railgun fans.
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Old 2013-05-17, 00:08   Link #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
I feel like this split is too much of a knee-jerk reaction to the current issues with Index fans spoiling plot content for Railgun fans.
Well, I would only point out that the "tension" between Index and Railgun fans has been going on for a long time, and it's not new. The spoiler issue sort of tipped it over the edge in terms of trying this experiment now. But, if it really doesn't work out in the end, we can re-organize again. At least we can learn from experience and we'll know better for the next time.
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Old 2013-05-17, 01:31   Link #7
zaeraal
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This is split too much.. I am fan of both and now I have to browse x forums to keep track of things.. even those that never meant to be split!

If you wanted to split stuff, it would be better to leave the original Index/Railgun forum with anime only stuff, images, merchandise, QA...

(This is basically stuff that is ABSOLUTELY POINTLES to split.
That is common for both fanbases and should be united.)

...and make ONE subforum for the manga/novel readers (manga, LN, character discussion, fanfics, PSP games..


We have now a lot of activity due to the anime, but without it there were like 10 active people on the entire Index/Railgun forum
Once the anime ends, I will be probably talking to myself in the Railgun subforum..
(You have to think of the future a bit too)

The fanbases here on animesuki aren't that agressive against each other. (it's worse on sites like 4chan and similar).
And you can always ban them if there make problems, so I don't think worrying about the Index / Railgun hate is a problem.

And if you made a Poll and asked how many people that read Railgun / Index manga/novels are familiar with the opposite franchise, I can bet that the results would be over 90%.

TL;DR…
 
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Old 2013-05-17, 02:00   Link #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaeraal View Post
We have now a lot of activity due to the anime, but without it there were like 10 active people on the entire Index/Railgun forum
Once the anime ends, I will be probably talking to myself in the Railgun subforum..
(You have to think of the future a bit too)
But isn't that the same as every other sub-forum...? Most shows don't even get sequels, and they go to Older and eventually go to Retired. So this sort of lifecycle is, like, exactly the way this forum has always worked...

And besides, the massive overlap between Index and Railgun viewers is precisely why the on-topic rules are harder to enforce, because people keep wanting to talk about Index in Railgun anime threads, even though it's not allowed. The split does help reinforce that.

I'm not saying you're wrong (it's an opinion), but I think you may be overstating it a bit, since it's really not so different from most other shows on this site.

(I will say that I apologize for the fact that it seems so sudden and it's a lot of changes to take all at one time. But I'd least ask that people try for a while to give it a chance before condemning it too much. If it legitimately doesn't work out after trying and there's a better way that most agree on, then we can change it at that point.)
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Old 2013-05-17, 02:38   Link #9
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Unfortunately, because the two series are interconnected and all part of a larger narrative, splitting the forum into two, one for each anime, will do nothing to stop the spoiler talk from happening in the Railgun episode threads.
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Old 2013-05-17, 03:07   Link #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Unfortunately, because the two series are interconnected and all part of a larger narrative, splitting the forum into two, one for each anime, will do nothing to stop the spoiler talk from happening in the Railgun episode threads.
But, the physical separation does make it easier to point to where things need to go, and that's pretty much all that can be done as far as I can tell. In terms of "it's going to happen anyway", nothing has changed. People will continue to be banned for breaking this rule, no doubt. Now it's just easier to show/demonstrate/illustrate the split that is being enforced.
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Old 2013-05-17, 05:53   Link #11
zaeraal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
But isn't that the same as every other sub-forum...? Most shows don't even get sequels, and they go to Older and eventually go to Retired. So this sort of lifecycle is, like, exactly the way this forum has always worked...
I understand that it will eventually become retired once manga and novel ends.
But so far manga and novel is going at a steady pace and it is (was) actively being discussed.
I am just worried that having to browse 4 forums instead of 1 will most likely discourage people from visiting all of them.
Meaning that after the anime ends, those 10 people that remains, will be split into 2 groups which will lead to less activity and faster end.
(even though the manga/novel might be still ongoing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
And besides, the massive overlap between Index and Railgun viewers is precisely why the on-topic rules are harder to enforce, because people keep wanting to talk about Index in Railgun anime threads, even though it's not allowed. The split does help reinforce that.
The problem is that most not-casual people here didn't break any rules.
They were broken by casual people that watched/read Index sometime before, and the Railgun anime attracted them so they sought the appropriate anime thread.
The split is not really solving anything, they came there because they wanted to, not because it was linked to Index.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
But, the physical separation does make it easier to point to where things need to go, and that's pretty much all that can be done as far as I can tell.
If they were unable to read FAQ, nor the first post with rules, nor the wole name with topic, I doubt they will be able to understand your "hidden" meaning behind the split.
You will have to make a BIG RED SIGN before each post is submitted in the anime thread, saying
Code:
NO INDEX SPOILERS HERE!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
But I'd least ask that people try for a while to give it a chance before condemning it too much. If it legitimately doesn't work out after trying and there's a better way that most agree on, then we can change it at that point.)
You can leave it for a week or so (for people to test it out) and try to make a pool afterwards to see if people like it or not.
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Old 2013-05-17, 07:00   Link #12
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While I'm sad things had to come to this, if that what it takes, it is fine as long as we can go to the appropriate section to discuss each portion of this series.

Would it be possible to create a quick link in the railgun sub-forum to jump to the index sub-forum and vice versa?

Does this mean the Index Novel discussion thread is almost ready to be unlocked?
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Old 2013-05-17, 07:07   Link #13
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I think it's better to make an abilities and technologies thread for the Index novel section since plenty of discussion in the existing one comes from novel stuff

And lol...you changed the spelling error...
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Old 2013-05-17, 12:34   Link #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaeraal View Post
You can leave it for a week or so (for people to test it out) and try to make a pool afterwards to see if people like it or not.
I will probably be for much longer than week -- likely a few months at least. If you're mostly worried about when the anime stops airing, then we have time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPG_Fanatic View Post
Would it be possible to create a quick link in the railgun sub-forum to jump to the index sub-forum and vice versa?
Maybe...? I don't know if vBulletin lets you do this. I'll look into it.

Edit: Okay, I came up with "a" way of doing it that you can see now. It's not super-pretty but it works nicely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPG_Fanatic View Post
Does this mean the Index Novel discussion thread is almost ready to be unlocked?
That thread won't be unlocked (it's way too big and impossible for a new reader to do anything but just join the latest page), but (many) new threads will be created now that it has a sub-forum. There's a discussion going on in the sub-forum right now about how to organize these threads, so check that out if you're interested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
I think it's better to make an abilities and technologies thread for the Index novel section since plenty of discussion in the existing one comes from novel stuff
Is it better to move the existing one, or to create a new thread with the same topic?
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-05-17 at 12:44.
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Old 2013-05-17, 20:37   Link #15
Cosmic Eagle
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Move the existing one
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Old 2013-05-17, 23:56   Link #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Move the existing one
This. The existing power thread to the Index subforum since there are more powers to talk about in Index, and Railgun does not go as in-depth with regards to such stuff.

While it does confuse me at first, I do welcome the change (though I admit it's inconvenient to click twice just to get to the novel section, but that's just me). With regards to the novel discussion, we just end up going off-topic half the time, so those who want to check up the arcs can do so without actually spoiling themselves that much (until somebody posts a 'future spoiler alert'). In fact, I believe the High School DxD is currently on its second LN thread (or is it the third), so it's not that surprising.

Also, the 'rivalry' between Index and Railgun has certainly gone to an 'unhealthy' level for my tastes, even though we're doing an arc that originated almost 9 years ago again. I just hope that fans watch the shows and enjoy them for what they are, instead of trying to compare to a sister series and hating the other series for not showing their favorite character more prominently.
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Old 2013-05-18, 00:23   Link #17
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I moved the power thread to the sub-forum, as suggested.
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Old 2013-05-18, 09:44   Link #18
Birdway
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Just a suggestion Relentlessflame.

Could the number of subforums be swaped?

Whenever I put "Animesuki Toaru... Index" on the internet browser it automatically leads me to Railgun sub-forum.

Index forum before was 87, right? But now it is 131... Could you swap them? The results of the search are annoying and I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets this result.


Maybe am I asking too much? Please tell me.
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Old 2013-05-18, 10:57   Link #19
zaeraal
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With the Railgun anime out, I believe 99% of people want the Railgun forum..
PS: This is Google thing, you have to wait till it updates, you can speed it up by searching "Animesuki Toaru... Index" and opening the Index forum.
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Old 2013-05-18, 11:09   Link #20
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Before the combined Index/Railgun forum was 87, but one of the two had to get a new number. I chose Index to get the new number because Railgun was airing at the time (and so was in the Current section). Over the next week or two, I'm sure search engines will re-crawl and figure it out. (The same problem would happen in reverse if the numbers were swapped -- if you searched for Railgun it would also find 87.)
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