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Old 2013-05-11, 22:15   Link #3661
oompa loompa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
Check also the Talk page of that article, as well as how sketchy its sources are... IMPE from living in their country and using their language; yes, there is different pitch in Japanese, but its less consistent with dialects and kanji meanings, than individuals and their mood... we had a similar discussion over おう versus おお last year, and I stand corrected... pronunciation differences are at best random... the fertile ground for phd tax-wasters
To be honest, I never bothered learning the pitch accents (because its pretty difficult to do), and have never needed to know them either. I was however, taught (told, and now read, on different occasions) that a structure to distinguish words with pitch accents exists within the language. Even if its not used that much, it is there as a legitimate, documented part of the language. I don't think its archaic either, the few people (IMPE living there as well) I talked to about this did tell me that this was the way you would differentiate between words.
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Old 2013-05-11, 22:23   Link #3662
Avatar of Dreams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
I don't want to put any false information out there but I do recall hearing the 'easy person' (sexually) before, I think it depends on how the sentence is structured.
When in doubt ask the natives:
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp...l/q12107106602

So far I'm getting an overwhelming 'no' on the whole 易しい人 = 'promiscuous' thing.

The reference source for Denshi Jisho seems to be based on a website with similar characteristics as wikipedia, namely, anyone can edit the definitions.
My guess is that someone misunderstood the meaning and wrote an incorrect definition.
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Old 2013-05-12, 07:25   Link #3663
Malkuth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oompa loompa View Post
To be honest, I never bothered learning the pitch accents (because its pretty difficult to do), and have never needed to know them either. I was however, taught (told, and now read, on different occasions) that a structure to distinguish words with pitch accents exists within the language. Even if its not used that much, it is there as a legitimate, documented part of the language. I don't think its archaic either, the few people (IMPE living there as well) I talked to about this did tell me that this was the way you would differentiate between words.
I am far from convinced... it sounds more like personal opinions in obsolete matters. Then again my interest in linguistics is amateurish, empirical, and statistical... those old men that make money out of it (pretending to have some deeper insight in the matter) probably should disagree

In any case, on my practical side, I was discussing the writings, pronunciations and uses of yasui(s) with a couple of friends from Kyuushuu and another from Kansai recently that enforced my current understanding, and crushed my hopes for the existence of some logic rule behind homophones in Japanese, or at least how Japanese are normally used in order to be understood by the native speakers and not how complicated they can be made in order to promoted social stratification
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Old 2013-05-12, 22:47   Link #3664
Alchemist007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Dreams View Post
When in doubt ask the natives:
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp...l/q12107106602

So far I'm getting an overwhelming 'no' on the whole 易しい人 = 'promiscuous' thing.

The reference source for Denshi Jisho seems to be based on a website with similar characteristics as wikipedia, namely, anyone can edit the definitions.
My guess is that someone misunderstood the meaning and wrote an incorrect definition.
Might've just been a different word I'm recalling altogether then.
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Old 2013-05-12, 23:00   Link #3665
larethian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Dreams View Post
When in doubt ask the natives:
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp...l/q12107106602

So far I'm getting an overwhelming 'no' on the whole 易しい人 = 'promiscuous' thing.

The reference source for Denshi Jisho seems to be based on a website with similar characteristics as wikipedia, namely, anyone can edit the definitions.
My guess is that someone misunderstood the meaning and wrote an incorrect definition.
I agree with using "chiebukuro", especially when 'cultural colloquialism' is suspected. While it is not a 100% given to have accurate or definitely right answers (since anyone can answer), one can attract quite quality (and sometimes backed-up) posts, especially when 'chi' is offered

I have found it quite useful myself when I can't get hold of my pals on IM.

Incidentally, one of my native Skype pals gave 'nay' as the answer as well. Mainly because 易しい人 appears to be misuse of 易しい to her.
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Old 2013-05-12, 23:10   Link #3666
Seitsuki
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I think it's simply an English problem. 易しい = easy > 易しい人 really should be something like an 'easygoing/easy person to get along with', but due to 'easy' also having the colloquial meaning of 'promiscuous' in some parts... well, one thing leads to another.
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Old 2013-05-13, 08:21   Link #3667
Haiprbim
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"thank you = arigato
Pleased to meet you = Yoroshiku"


Well, I say Arigatou and Yoroshiku-ne all the time, so... :P
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Old 2013-05-13, 15:10   Link #3668
Malkuth
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I am pretty certain that "yasui hito" is referring to a girl that is easy for anyone to "sleep" with... I should have completely missed everything said in a discussion with natives, in order to be wrong about this one... possible, yet unlikely, since I was really paying a lot of attention at the time for personal reasons
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Old 2013-05-13, 15:55   Link #3669
Avatar of Dreams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
I am pretty certain that "yasui hito" is referring to a girl that is easy for anyone to "sleep" with... I should have completely missed everything said in a discussion with natives, in order to be wrong about this one... possible, yet unlikely, since I was really paying a lot of attention at the time for personal reasons
Ah, you're right! It doesn't necessarily mean promiscuous but it can be used that way. Now it makes a lot more sense.

Someone probably made the mistake of going:
安い → 易い → 易しい

Thank you for the help Malkuth!
お前は何でも知ってるな
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Old 2013-05-14, 02:59   Link #3670
Malkuth
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Glad to help...

[rant-mode]

... but let me add that 安いー>易(し)い(+優しい)人 can be used potentially for very similar circumstances, one indicating that it's easy to "do" the said person, while the other that the person in question isn't particularly picky about his/her partners, plus there is the not yet mentioned case of someone receiving such lewd request kinder then usual and unfortunately both are not literal uses... so except form sounding similar, sharing the homophone kanji and some of the adjectival endings; the person used for usually can potentially share all these attributes

But as with all languages, a context is the key to understanding, followed by clarification inquiries is the way to communicate correctly; definitely not those definitions that old geezers and hags get paid for and ask us in language exams... oh! and let's not forget that 99% of humans don't care about such differences, since outside unproductive language tutoring fads, even if one uses the "wrong" one, everyone will understand the point, unless he is a grammar/accent/pronunciation/kanji-nazi, in which case he doesn't want to

[/rant-mode]

PS: I just remembered, LINDA published a story about a decade ago using the above kanji in its title as a wordplay

Last edited by Malkuth; 2013-05-14 at 03:10. Reason: the eventual homophone english grammar mistake :p
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Old 2013-05-16, 12:02   Link #3671
AmeNoJaku
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Let me change the subject, since this discussion about "easy people" seems clarified, if not strangely referenced.

Japanese language has a lot of verbs (used literally and metaphorically) for having sex (particularly non-consensual), but what about making love? You know the romantic variety that is the case 99,...% IRL. Unfortunately, anime, manga and doujinshi are not very helpful in the matter, and it's the kind of question that is very hard to ask in person
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Old 2013-05-16, 18:56   Link #3672
erneiz_hyde
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Not sure I understand the question, so are you asking about the euphemisms the Japanese use when referring to consensual sex?

I can only think of 抱く(daku) for now.
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Old 2013-05-16, 19:03   Link #3673
Seitsuki
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I'm pretty sure しますalso works. Like, 'しよう'. I've seen it used quite a bit in yuri, which is some of the the sweetest stuff known to man.

Or I dunno, やらないか
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Old 2013-05-19, 09:05   Link #3674
Gundamx
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Anyone here manage to solo Japanese language?
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Old 2013-05-19, 15:18   Link #3675
Solafighter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gundamx View Post
Anyone here manage to solo Japanese language?
Not sure, what exactly you mean by "solo", but I basicly learn Japanese on my own, just with a couple of books and more various infos out of the internet. Though, watching Japanese series helps you to listen to the language and helps you to pronounce it right. Also, I often talk with some of my Japanese friends. They don't teach me directly, but this talking helps me to get more fluend with the stuff, I have learnt so far.

Not sure, if one can call that "solo" by summing all that up.
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Old 2013-05-19, 15:39   Link #3676
Hooves
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I'm basically reading through this entire thread just to learn it. So it's impossible for me to 'solo' it if that's what you're referring to.
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Old 2013-05-19, 16:38   Link #3677
Solafighter
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I think in the theory, it might be possible to solo it, though it might not be as efficient and time sparing.

To not drift away from the main topic, I made myself some verb- and adjective conjugation sheets. I will print them out and hang them right next to me on the wall, so that I can take a look at it again, if needed. Maybe it is easier to have things simple to burn them into your mind.

If you find any mistake in there, please let me know. I just put this sheet up out of my mind, but roughly checked it after. Feel free to use them as you wish. I'm aware, that they might not be complete with a little bit of missing content, especially on the tenses paper. I made these to have a good overview, how it is done.

If you don't understand these, then please don't use them. The first and main reason I made them was for myself(yea, me unsocial bastard) but I thought "Hey, why not sharing these".

Adjective Conjugation (image on imgur.com)


Verb Conjugation (image on imgur.com)
This might need a short explaination: Besides the irregular verbs, there are three verb types. Behind the "examples:" is one example for each verb type. The rest should speak for itself.

Tenses (image on imgur.com)
This is mostly focusing on the right endings. You have verbs, which are ending with certain letters(Hiragana). These can be put in groups, as shown on the sheet. You then have replace the left Hiragana from the arrow with the Hiragana, which is on the right of the arrow. Example: Biru wo nomu(ビールをのむ). Mu is the Hiragana, we want to change. So in the past, it is Biru wo nonda(ビールをのんだ). You anyway should look this up and do a lot of examples.
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Last edited by Solafighter; 2013-05-23 at 11:15.
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Old 2013-05-20, 19:03   Link #3678
RandomGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solafighter View Post
If you find any mistake in there, please let me know. I just put this sheet up out of my mind, but roughly checked it after. Feel free to use them as you wish. I'm aware, that they might not be complete with a little bit of missing content, especially on the tenses paper. I made these to have a good overview, how it is done.
It's pretty basic, but I have a few points here:
  • First, you seem to have misspelled しろい as "しるい"
  • You seem to treat く as part of the entire ending, rather than a particular (in this case, adverbial) ending for the stem. It's worth having that separately, since it's used quite a bit. Same thing for に on the な adjective side.
  • "〜くありません", while correct, is less common and quite formal. Many people nowadays would say "〜くないです" and "〜くなかったです", so it might not hurt to have that in there.


Quote:
Tenses (image on imgur.com)
This is mostly focusing on the right endings. You have verbs, which are ending with certain letters(Hiragana). These can be put in groups, as shown on the sheet. You then have replace the left Hiragana from the arrow with the Hiragana, which is on the right of the arrow. Example: Biru wo nomu(ビルをのむ). Mu is the Hiragana, we want to change. So in the past, it is Biru wo nonda(ビルをのんだ). You anyway should look this up and do a lot of examples.
You drink buildings?!
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Old 2013-05-21, 10:50   Link #3679
Solafighter
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I forgot the ー. > ビール. My bad.

I will take a look at them, when I'm at home. Thanks a lot.
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Old 2013-05-23, 09:23   Link #3680
Gundamx
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By solo > I mean to study it by yourself ( without university/teacher help )
+
here picture I used too keep on my desktop

Spoiler for large:

Last edited by Gundamx; 2013-05-23 at 19:32.
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