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Old 2006-01-28, 10:07   Link #21
Veritas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Yanami
That was probably the best thing for both companies. Plus, maybe Pixar will help Disney not suck so much. I have been totally disappointed in Disney's animated films as well. What Disney has to stop doing is making stupid sequels to their animated films and quit making remakes of things. They need to start actually using their imaginations for once. I'm hoping Pixar will help pull Disney outta that slump so they can start making decent animated films again.
Brother Bear (crappy), Lilo and Stitch (also crappy, though not as much), and The Emperor's New Groove (kind of amusing, but damn I hate David Spade) were all pretty much original. I didn't put the Lion King in there, because it was a Kimba/Hamlet crossover. I don't think it's a matter of the subject material, but the way it's presented.

Cut out the pop culture remarks.
Don't water down source material for "the kiddies" who can handle everything not being peachy keen at the end.
Stop including songs until they find another Howard Ashman, which may be impossible.
Let franchises die. Do we really need sub-par sequels for everything?
Bring back 2-d animation. Walt Disney was whirling in his grave when they pulled that bullshit.
And the biggest one - Understand that audiences change. Years ago, all cartoons were regarded as being for kids. There was nothing out there that wasn't porn or propaganda that wasn't aimed at kids. Now, you have anime getting more popular among adults every day, largely because of the more mature stories you can find in the genre. I'm not saying start putting fanservice and tortured monologues in Disney flicks, but hey, maybe an antagonist who's not so much a villian as just a foil for the hero. Not so cut and dry, maybe a little grey area, something like that.

I've not lost hope for Disney. Remember they used to be pioneers in animation. It's just that this time, they're the ones who need to grow up.
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Old 2006-01-28, 11:18   Link #22
npal
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Eh.. Disney IS making movies just for kids, and that's fine, the white/black perspective is more understandable to kids (smaller children can even understand that there CAN be a gray area) and helps in getting good messages across to a young audience.

And Disney SHOULD stick to that sort of children movies, that's what they were good at.

And about the gray area, well, I don't remember Brother Bear having a CLEAR villain. Villain perception changes as the main character changes, and I believe that's more than enough for a children's movie.

Plus, that gray area is a matter of perception definition Others like it big, others like it small, others don't want it at all, and I don't believe Disney should start philosophy on the subject, It's kids we're talking about, make it strong, make it simple, make it hopeful, make it loving.

And about anime getting more popular, well, I'm not sure the 1-2% percent rise in western anime viewers is much to boast for Face it, we, anime watchers, are still looked down on like village idiots

But true, I don't want a 5th Pocahontas, a 10th Lion King, or a Xth "Yeah, we got good cash with Z, let's make another 20 sequels"

As for Pixar, I hope they make something as good as Toy Story now Can't wait.
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Old 2006-01-28, 18:42   Link #23
Dark`
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Anyone here watch the Daily Show? They made a (what I thought was) hilarious joke about Pixar's films (as well as Disney's purchase of them).

Quote:
Earlier this week, Disney announced it will purchase Pixar, the independent animation studio responsible for most of the animated blockbusters of the past decade...including:

(poster of Toy Story) Toy Story...
(poster of Toy Story 2) Toy Story 2...
(poster of Monsters Inc) Toy Story 3, monster edition...
(poster of Finding Nemo) underwater Toy Story, and most recently...
(poster of The Incredibles) Super Toy Story.
I'm not sure if I agree with that sentiment entirely, but I found it amusing nonetheless.
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[14:22] <@Dark`> =D
[14:22] <~lucifer> Then after I finish Genshiken S2 dvd rips, he's free game.
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Old 2006-01-28, 22:11   Link #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Yanami

That was probably the best thing for both companies. Plus, maybe Pixar will help Disney not suck so much. I have been totally disappointed in Disney's animated films as well. What Disney has to stop doing is making stupid sequels to their animated films and quit making remakes of things. They need to start actually using their imaginations for once. I'm hoping Pixar will help pull Disney outta that slump so they can start making decent animated films again.
I was hoping that Pixar quitting Disney WOULD make Disney suck.
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Old 2006-01-30, 01:09   Link #25
Veritas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npal
Eh.. Disney IS making movies just for kids, and that's fine, the white/black perspective is more understandable to kids (smaller children can even understand that there CAN be a gray area) and helps in getting good messages across to a young audience.

And Disney SHOULD stick to that sort of children movies, that's what they were good at.

And about the gray area, well, I don't remember Brother Bear having a CLEAR villain. Villain perception changes as the main character changes, and I believe that's more than enough for a children's movie.

Plus, that gray area is a matter of perception definition Others like it big, others like it small, others don't want it at all, and I don't believe Disney should start philosophy on the subject, It's kids we're talking about, make it strong, make it simple, make it hopeful, make it loving.

And about anime getting more popular, well, I'm not sure the 1-2% percent rise in western anime viewers is much to boast for Face it, we, anime watchers, are still looked down on like village idiots

But true, I don't want a 5th Pocahontas, a 10th Lion King, or a Xth "Yeah, we got good cash with Z, let's make another 20 sequels"

As for Pixar, I hope they make something as good as Toy Story now Can't wait.
Dude, relax the smileys. They're like a strong spice: fine additive to enhance flavor, but no one really wants a bowl full of salt.

Disney needs to stop making movies just for kids. You think Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi got to be the highest grossing movie in Japan because it was made just for kids? Don't underestimate small children. In many ways, they are wiser than adults.

And, though anime is still a niche culture in America (same as in Japan, really), its popularity has fairly exploded in the last 10 years.
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Old 2006-02-02, 21:52   Link #26
aahhsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas
Cut out the pop culture remarks.
Don't water down source material for "the kiddies" who can handle everything not being peachy keen at the end.
Stop including songs until they find another Howard Ashman, which may be impossible.
I dunno about the kiddying it down. They are marketing toward little kids, and they're rather afraid that Grown ups (Who take little kids to go watch these movies) wouldn't be offened.

Although I do agree that Disney needs to start targeting the teen area. And add some adult jokes here and there. (I never realized how funny Beauty and the Beast was until recently, man all those sexist and feminist jokes fly everywhere.)

Phil Collins did a really good job on Tarzan. I'm sure there are some good music writers still out there.

Quote:
And, though anime is still a niche culture in America (same as in Japan, really), its popularity has fairly exploded in the last 10 years.
I would never say Anime is better than something disney put out. Heck they still make fairly good cartoon shows. Kim Possible comes to mind. Then of course their glory 90's cartoons which is still better than most anime out there.

Heck

Ducktales > Naruto
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Old 2006-02-02, 22:09   Link #27
mantidor
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"Ducktales > Naruto"

well, duh!

I think that Disney tried to aproach a different perspective and for once let the annoying "singing every minute" to rest with Atlantis, but after that they suddenly started making really horrible sequels to their greatest classics, almost harming the originals in the process, I dont understand why the change, was Atlantis a huge flop?

Lets hope they never make a "Snow White 2: the revenge" because Ill dye that day.
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Old 2006-02-02, 22:45   Link #28
Demongod86
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Disney sucks. Pixar sucks. American animation sucks. End of story. Those loons at Disney can't pull a good story out of their ass and wouldn't know a good one even if it came and slapped them in their face with a cold, wet, stinging hand.

Disney's best works were easily Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away. Oh yeah, I forgot, they were made by the Japanese people. Namely, Hayao Miyazaki-san.
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Old 2006-02-02, 23:11   Link #29
aahhsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86
Disney sucks. Pixar sucks. American animation sucks. End of story. Those loons at Disney can't pull a good story out of their ass and wouldn't know a good one even if it came and slapped them in their face with a cold, wet, stinging hand.

Disney's best works were easily Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away. Oh yeah, I forgot, they were made by the Japanese people. Namely, Hayao Miyazaki-san.
No way. Their best works recently is all their late 80s- early 90's shows. Sure they're pretty much retellings of other classic folklores. Still great.

American animation is pretty much the same thing. If you noticed Anime uses a lot of freeze frame, and tons of slapstick humor. Such as Dokudoku-chan. OK WE GET IT!!! SHE LIKES TO SWING A SPIKED BAT AT THE GUY!! Get's rather repetative.

Then lets look at all the mighty harlem anime. Loser guy gets 5 girls, 1 girl is one of the following: Childhood Friend, Robot, Sister that's not really his sister, Demon, Cute naive girl. Then mix some of those, and heck you'll probably have a Catgirl that's his childhood friend, whose really a robot, and his sister all in one.

Let's not forget all the "Tournament Fighting" Anime there are. Flame of Recca, YuYuHakasho, Shaman King, etc etc. Believe it or not, I think Pokemon is probably the most original Anime that has appeared in recent memory.

Please, it's not as if Anime is really original everysingle time. Now of course, how about more popular one such as Naruto, which tends to draw a lot of comparasions to DBZ. Not original there.

Heck we'll even compare Naruto to Aladdin.

Both main characters are outcasts to their society that finds wealth and acceptance after accomplishing something good. (Oh, the Naruto Movie was terrible...) No similarities there huh?

So in other words, you can't be so hasty in saying all American cartoons suck.

Batman can kick any anime character's ass anyday.
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Old 2006-02-02, 23:26   Link #30
mantidor
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We couldnt have a Disney thread in an anime forum without the prick who bashes Disney to death!

Disney was the pioneer of animation, it was his films the ones who pushed animation all over the world, including of course Japan, Tezuka and Miyazaki are obviously influenced by him directly, so all this bashing is indeed unfair, Disney is not in its best years and we can all agree that, but their classics are outstanding achievements.

And I understand that is a matter of tastes, but I just despise that "snobish" attitude of thinking japanese animation is superior, because sometimes is for the most stupid reasons (" theres blood an boobies is teh mature!!1").
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Old 2006-02-04, 13:26   Link #31
ChainLegacy
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I don't think those comparisons were fair. The typical anime (Naruto, any harem... c'mon, watch something more original and then compare) is not that good, but neither is the typical American work. You must compare the best of both worlds, and I believe they are somewhat even.
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Old 2006-02-04, 14:09   Link #32
Shay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin

Batman can kick any anime character's ass anyday.
Goku would pwn Batman.

Everything else I agree with. Now go rate some sigs!
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Old 2006-02-04, 16:03   Link #33
Lina Inverse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
So in other words, you can't be so hasty in saying all American cartoons suck.
Of course I can:
All American cartoons suck.
There. Very easy.
Especially valid if it's Disney cartoons (to get this back on topic). Disney cartoons are the grand master of humongous suckage! *barf*
The rest of the American cartoons don't suck nowhere near as badly.
Yes, dare I say it, there are even *very* rare exceptions which are actually watchable!
Only two exceptions I can think of now would be Spawn and South Park.
Hmm, a cross over would surely be hilarious... "Spawn Park"
"Oh no, Spawn killed Kenny... you bastard!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
Batman can kick any anime character's ass anyday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shay
Goku would pwn Batman.
Batman is extremely lame, but so is Goku... I really don't know which of the two sucks more.
I bet if the two ever met each other, they would end up as a gay couple!
There they could put their sucking to good use... as long as they don't go from suck to blow
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Old 2006-02-04, 16:40   Link #34
Illuyankas
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Slightly off topic, but Batman can defeat anyone - that's ANYONE - given five minutes to study his opponent, and plan his attack. Officially.

Now, as long as Disney are only bankrolling Pixar, and not writing the films (unless the current bunch of writers for Disney are shot), then it shouldn't be too bad, with more cash to Pixar and more quality to the Mousempire.


"Are you stupid, kid? I'm the goddamned Batman." - funniest line in a Batman comic for a while.
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Old 2006-02-04, 22:34   Link #35
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I know Batman is....Well he's friggen Batman. He will analyze the shit out of his opponents, find a weakness, and exploit it in one hell of a cool way. However, I'm willing to quarrel the fact (till I die) that Goku would absolutely annihilate Batman.... + Robin, in under a second!


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Old 2006-02-04, 22:46   Link #36
Illuyankas
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Come on, Batman could distract someone as stupid as Goku for about 17 times infinity.
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Old 2006-02-05, 03:03   Link #37
aahhsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lina Inverse
Of course I can:
All American cartoons suck.
There. Very easy.
Especially valid if it's Disney cartoons (to get this back on topic). Disney cartoons are the grand master of humongous suckage! *barf*
The rest of the American cartoons don't suck nowhere near as badly.
Yes, dare I say it, there are even *very* rare exceptions which are actually watchable!
Only two exceptions I can think of now would be Spawn and South Park.
Hmm, a cross over would surely be hilarious... "Spawn Park"
"Oh no, Spawn killed Kenny... you bastard!"
How is it huge suckage? Because the art doesn't look like the art in Japan?

What's so great about anime anyways? I can write up an anime that supposely "cool" right now.

A slient type dumbass guy comes to town. He's really gifted, but acts like an idiot. He meets a girl in his class and they A. Quickly Argue, B. She loves him at first sight. A monster or badguy comes to town, and finds out the girl has some super secret power to rule the world. Guy defends her from bunch of monsters.

Fight:

Guy get's horrendously beaten up over and over and over untill he's a bloody pulp. Yet he doesn't lose, he either A. Powers up for some super attack nobody ever seen and destroys the supposely super bad guy in one hit. B. The girl says "NOOOOOOOO" then shoots a super powerful beam that kills the supposely bad guy in one hit. or even C. He exclaims how he won't Die here and he has a Promise made to that girl who probably abuses him, and laughs then for some reason finds strength to kill the bad guy.

Then everyone goes WTF?!!?!? OMG HAXOR!!!?!?!?!??!

Ring a bell?

Quote:
Batman is extremely lame, but so is Goku... I really don't know which of the two sucks more.
I bet if the two ever met each other, they would end up as a gay couple!
There they could put their sucking to good use... as long as they don't go from suck to blow
blasphemy! batman is one of the best fictional characters ever. he has everything dumbass anime nerds (Narrtards) want. Dark Past, conflicted freudian concepts, and throws weapons, knows martial arts, and hell he even wears a mask. And hell at least he freaking Loses once in awhile. 4 dead robins, a broken back, and a obsessive compulsive disorder.

Oh yea.

Anime characters talk all the freaking time to the bad guy. Over stupid redundant ideas about what's good and bad, and sometimes they jsut stand there looking at each other. Freeza vs Goku? Naruto vs Kabuto, Orochimaru vs 3rd. Sheesh shut up already and fight. Unlike Batman who already figures out the plans of the badguy, goes out then when he sees them he proceeds to open a can of whoop ass. He doesn't wait for the enemy to talk and say all this stupid crap. He just runs up to the guy and smashes his face. He's done, and he's always right. That's a hero.

Then they take 10 episodes just explaining a past history nobody really cares about, and it's just there to waste paper. Such as Sasori in Naruto. He dies after, now who cares about his past? Zabuza? Haku? All died, and nobody cares now. Crocodile for One Piece? Those big Giants? Who cares now. In 1 episode of an Western Cartoon explains what 20 episodes of what an anime does.

For Example: Scrooge McDuck.

In one episode he explains his past to his nephews. And in 30 minutes, we find out he was born in Ireland, worked as a shoe cleaner as a boy, went west to the gold rush, invested in a mining company, struck billions, and now he's the riches duck in the world.

Man his life story in 30 minutes. And that's all we really need to know.

I don't care that Nami was an adopted daughter of some woman who's name nobody knows, and has a sister that was tormented in the past. We didn't need 1 hour worth of that. All we need to know is in 5 minutes. Crocodile could just said "Hows ,Name of Nami's mom, doing in her coffin?"

Bam in that one sentence we figured out the past of someone that would have took 2 episodes.

Last edited by aahhsin; 2006-02-05 at 03:14.
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Old 2006-02-05, 12:51   Link #38
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
snip
So, American cartoons are better than Naruto, harems, and Dragonball Z. I believe you have established this point. I'd like you to illustrate how they are significantly better than shows like Fullmetal Alchemist, GunGRAVE, Berserk, Monster, Trigun, and Great Teacher Onizuka (just to name a few). I challenge you to do this. Oh, and, as a ground rule, the fact that Batman could beat the main character up really does not make his series any better (though I personally happen to love Batman and most all comic book heroes).

I'm assuming you haven't even seen many of these shows. You can compare Batman (an example of an American masterpiece) to Naruto (a mediocre at best anime) all you want, but you aren't proving your point doing so. I happen to like the best anime better than the best American shows I've seen, but I enjoy both (arguably my favorite show of all time was the 90's Spiderman animated series).
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Old 2006-02-05, 13:15   Link #39
Sonhex
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This deal should be welcomed by Studio Ghibli fans. The reason we got to see Spirited Away and Howl's Moving Castle in our multiplexes was because John Lasseter (now the head of the Disney/Pixar animation studios) is a massive Miyazaki fan (and personal friend). This deal should increase the likelyhood of Disney still distributing future projects, such as Ghibli's new Tales of Earthsea movie.

Lasseter also intends to revive Disney's 2-D animation, which will be awesome.
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Old 2006-02-05, 16:29   Link #40
Lina Inverse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuyankas
Come on, Batman could distract someone as stupid as Goku for about 17 times infinity.
Ok, Goku is dumb as a brick whereas Batman isn't... but Goku has all these totally ridiculous powers, while Batman is just an ordinary man with a few not all that great gadgets.
So let's say Batman can avoid all of Gokus attacks, but how would he attack Goku? Run him over with the Batmobile? Hit him from behind with the bat boomerang while Goku is ass-raping Robin?

@aahhsin
As ChainLegacy already said, you don't prove *anything* by comparing Batman (clearly one of the better series that American cartoons have to offer) to Naruto (which may not be as totally retarded as DragOnBall, but isn't much better).
So it's just an incredibly lame attempt from your side to make US cartoons look good
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