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Old 2013-05-20, 02:44   Link #221
GVN.Chaos
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Originally Posted by Cadallin View Post
Eh, that's significantly an informed ability, we're told she does, we never really see it, and I'd say the way she treats her famiy would realistically spill over into at least her personal relationships. Note that we do actually see that with how she treats the circle, and even with Ayase.

I'd say its a pretty contrived aspect of her character that we're supposed to accept the extreme dissonance there.

Its pretty dysfunctional, and a big source of the personal dislike I have for tsundere characters in general. They'd be utterly ghastly to date or even be friends with.
Do you know that in RL, girls sometime purposely acted tsuntsun ?
Anyway, I think it's normal for sibling to know about other's ugly side. See how polite Kirino is with her parents? How different it is when she deals with Kyousuke? That's what I meant : both of her deredere and enthusiastic is her true self, but each one is to deal with different situation. If she acted that bitches everywhere with everyone, do you honestly think that people could stand her?
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Old 2013-05-20, 10:27   Link #222
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If Kirino started out as completely deredere, I for one would no longer be able to watch this show anymore(I'd be in the hospital getting multiple blood transfusions). I think we all act like bitches to people we dislike, hate or have some sort of resentment towards. It's portrayed that she "hates" Kyousuke so this behavior is somewhat understandable.
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Old 2013-05-20, 10:47   Link #223
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Originally Posted by finalfury View Post
If Kirino started out as completely deredere, I for one would no longer be able to watch this show anymore(I'd be in the hospital getting multiple blood transfusions). I think we all act like bitches to people we dislike, hate or have some sort of resentment towards. It's portrayed that she "hates" Kyousuke so this behavior is somewhat understandable.
Her attitude can also mean that she can't express her feelings really well torwards Kyousuke.If someone act bitchi torwards you it doesn't have to mean that the person hates you or anything.
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Old 2013-05-20, 10:57   Link #224
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Originally Posted by finalfury View Post
If Kirino started out as completely deredere, I for one would no longer be able to watch this show anymore(I'd be in the hospital getting multiple blood transfusions). I think we all act like bitches to people we dislike, hate or have some sort of resentment towards. It's portrayed that she "hates" Kyousuke so this behavior is somewhat understandable.
Not only that. I think that aside from a defense mechanic, her tsuntsun side is also her way to get Kyousuke's attention.
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Old 2013-05-20, 11:53   Link #225
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Even though i have nothing against tsundere in general, for some reason i just can't stand Kirino's attitude towards her brother. Being a headstrong girl who can't be honest with her feelings is one thing, but being dependant and yet still rude, insulting, and ill-treating someone who genuinely treats her very well is simply unacceptable. Can't say thanks? Fine. Can't give him good deed in return? That's also fine. But deliberately putting him on the edge all the time? That's what's not fine.

It's for this reason i completely skipped eps 3-5 and only watched the recent eps 6 when all the favor finally shifted to Kuroneko

Last edited by backbone; 2013-05-21 at 00:52.
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Old 2013-05-20, 12:41   Link #226
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Originally Posted by Densetsuhakai View Post
Her attitude can also mean that she can't express her feelings really well torwards Kyousuke.If someone act bitchi torwards you it doesn't have to mean that the person hates you or anything.
True that. I only gave the general examples that most people could relate to. Kirino doesn't really apply to the general examples but I do believe that she had some resentment towards his "flirting", ignoring her, and not caring about her before. I dunno much about volume 11 hence the past tense in the previous sentence.
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Old 2013-05-20, 13:21   Link #227
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Originally Posted by finalfury View Post
True that. I only gave the general examples that most people could relate to. Kirino doesn't really apply to the general examples but I do believe that she had some resentment towards his "flirting", ignoring her, and not caring about her before. I dunno much about volume 11 hence the past tense in the previous sentence.
I think it is obvious that she has some sort of resentment towards his flirting and ignoring her, she blatantly states that he doesn't like him flirting with other girls at a couple different points I believe.
Spoiler for Novel volume 11:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-05-20 at 14:51.
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Old 2013-05-20, 14:53   Link #228
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I think it is obvious that she has some sort of resentment towards his flirting and ignoring her, she blatantly states that he doesn't like him flirting with other girls at a couple different points I believe.
This was addressed just recently in Episode 6 of the second anime season.

(Which is what I was going to say to backbone; if you do care at all to understand what Kirino is thinking, it may be useful to work your way through the recent episodes even if Kirino's attitude on display annoys you. I think understanding this is pretty important to understanding the work on the whole.)
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Old 2013-05-27, 04:30   Link #229
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So I recently started watching this anime at the recommendation of a friend and I'm currently on episode 7 of season 1. Much like backbone, I strongly dislike Kirino's attitude towards Kyousuke. She demands so much from him, and while she does show occasional (surprisingly) gratitude for his deeds, I think her attitude towards him in general is incredibly nasty and it annoys the hell out of me.

I honestly don't care how disappointed or sad she is that Kyousuke didn't spend time with her or gave her any attention younger when he played with boys his own age (that's what I assume happened in the past during their argument about Ayase; Oh and about Ayase. I despise her. Her prejudice and believing anything the media says is nauseating. Also, she's creepy as hell. It looked like she was going to kill Kirino in episode 5.), her treating Kyousuke the way she does just rubs me the wrong way, especially when taking all the things he does for her into consideration.

Then again, I'm rather new to this anime so I don't really know a lot about the backstory so maybe I'm jumping the gun here. I would like to know more about her mindset and why she acts the way she does towards him though, so I'm going to keep watching.

*tried to avoid reading posts above*
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Old 2013-06-29, 19:50   Link #230
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Originally Posted by backbone View Post
Even though i have nothing against tsundere in general, for some reason i just can't stand Kirino's attitude towards her brother. Being a headstrong girl who can't be honest with her feelings is one thing, but being dependant and yet still rude, insulting, and ill-treating someone who genuinely treats her very well is simply unacceptable. Can't say thanks? Fine. Can't give him good deed in return? That's also fine. But deliberately putting him on the edge all the time? That's what's not fine.

It's for this reason i completely skipped eps 3-5 and only watched the recent eps 6 when all the favor finally shifted to Kuroneko

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for "getting it." I actually like tsunderes. I even like Ayase somehow! But I hate Kirino with every fiber of my being.

It's not that she's rough around the edges, it's that she really does not respect others. I think she really looks down on people. Her behavior crosses the line regularly (I have many examples). She throws Kyousuke into fits of depression regularly.

Kirino is awful not only to Kyousuke, but to Kuroneko and Manami (who are angels by the way). I get so mad when I see Kuroneko suffer from of Kirino's condescending behavior.
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Old 2013-06-29, 19:57   Link #231
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Originally Posted by ryuujinjaaka View Post
It's not that she's rough around the edges, it's that she really does not respect others. I think she really looks down on people. Her behavior crosses the line regularly (I have many examples). She throws Kyousuke into fits of depression regularly.

Kirino is awful not only to Kyousuke, but to Kuroneko and Manami (who are angels by the way). I get so mad when I see Kuroneko suffer from of Kirino's condescending behavior.
I think this view is a bit one-sided, and doesn't consider changes in the character's behaviour and disposition over the course of the story. Not that this will necessarily change your view on her earlier behaviour, but nothing in this story is so strongly "black and white".
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Old 2013-06-29, 23:32   Link #232
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Originally Posted by Kaizokugami View Post
So I recently started watching this anime at the recommendation of a friend and I'm currently on episode 7 of season 1. Much like backbone, I strongly dislike Kirino's attitude towards Kyousuke. She demands so much from him, and while she does show occasional (surprisingly) gratitude for his deeds, I think her attitude towards him in general is incredibly nasty and it annoys the hell out of me.

I honestly don't care how disappointed or sad she is that Kyousuke didn't spend time with her or gave her any attention younger when he played with boys his own age (that's what I assume happened in the past during their argument about Ayase; Oh and about Ayase. I despise her. Her prejudice and believing anything the media says is nauseating. Also, she's creepy as hell. It looked like she was going to kill Kirino in episode 5.), her treating Kyousuke the way she does just rubs me the wrong way, especially when taking all the things he does for her into consideration.

Then again, I'm rather new to this anime so I don't really know a lot about the backstory so maybe I'm jumping the gun here. I would like to know more about her mindset and why she acts the way she does towards him though, so I'm going to keep watching.

*tried to avoid reading posts above*
Good to see someone who has a similar mindset. Ayase also rubs me the wrong way. Then again, dem Yanderes never actually gave me a reason to like them.

If you want some clarifications for some of the things happening in the anime, you might want to check out the Light Novel section. However, fear for there are Kirino fans everywhere these days since the last Light Novel Volume came out.
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Old 2013-06-29, 23:43   Link #233
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Originally Posted by ryuujinjaaka View Post
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for "getting it." I actually like tsunderes. I even like Ayase somehow! But I hate Kirino with every fiber of my being.

It's not that she's rough around the edges, it's that she really does not respect others. I think she really looks down on people. Her behavior crosses the line regularly (I have many examples). She throws Kyousuke into fits of depression regularly.

Kirino is awful not only to Kyousuke, but to Kuroneko and Manami (who are angels by the way). I get so mad when I see Kuroneko suffer from of Kirino's condescending behavior.
To Kuroneko? Please. If you think so, you haven't understood their relationship at all. The way they treat each other is their modus operandi and they care for each other very much. Watch the end of episode 15 or Saori's comment in episode 2 of the first season, when Kyousuke asks her to intervene. And have you forgotten? The one who started with the insults was Kuroneko at the first off-meet. And Manami an angel? Well, she's really successful in deceiving people.
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Old 2013-06-30, 02:47   Link #234
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I, for one, have always liked Kirino from the very first episode. When I watched S1(I was an anime-only viewer back then) every single episode with Kirino was entertaining. I also started questioning why does she hate him so much(the abuse of violence),why did they ignore each other,there must be some kind of reason. As the series progressed she slowly showed her gentle side and also thanked her brother for what he did for her(she thanked him twice: Ep3 and Ep11 of S1 who claim she didnt give her brother gratitude). When she left for America, I actually thought of skipping the episodes and see for myself will she return or not. Episodes were boring and dull without her. Luckily, he brought her back.(Btw,for some of you who state Kirino is awful towards Kuroneko, I think by now you should know that they are best friends since they know how they feel,but towards Manami its clear why she hates her)

Spoiler for Not really...:
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Old 2013-06-30, 10:49   Link #235
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I've been a big Kirino fan since the beginning, but I can understand why other people would dislike Kirino in the beginning of the story. Kirino is a tsundere, but she was like 80% tsun and only 20% dere in the beginning of the story. I didn't mind this, but I understand that this can be a big turnoff for people who don't like too much 'tsun behaviour'.

Especially the way Kirino treated Kyousuke seems to have made a lot of people hate her. I can understand that people felt like that before, since we didn't know why she acted like that, but I don't like it when people just gloss over her character development like nothing. Kirino's grown a lot throughout the series and now we even know why she started treating him like that. I think some of Kirino's 'haters' refuse to see this and continue to see her the way as she was presented in the beginning. Btw, I'm not saying that everything she did was justified. Even as a big Kirino fan I admit that she did go overboard at times.

As for why Kirino continued to be unreasonable with Kyousuke (or continued to 'play hard to get' as I see it) even after he helped her. I think that she did it because she felt that he had to earn back her respect bit by bit. In her eyes Kyousuke had 'betrayed' her back then and because of this she had trouble believing in him again, so she wouldn't let her guard down too easily. She didn't want to be hurt again. On top of that, there were her 'tsundere qualities'. She has trouble voicing her real feelings and usually ends up doing/saying the complete opposite when she's embarrassed. Everyone around her already seems to understand this by now though (Kyousuke actually seems to be able to translate Kirino's tsundere language for the most part in the final novels).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryuujinjaaka View Post
It's not that she's rough around the edges, it's that she really does not respect others. I think she really looks down on people. Her behavior crosses the line regularly (I have many examples). She throws Kyousuke into fits of depression regularly.

Kirino is awful not only to Kyousuke, but to Kuroneko and Manami (who are angels by the way). I get so mad when I see Kuroneko suffer from of Kirino's condescending behavior.
Kirino does respect others and she doesn't look down on people. She's actually a very nice person. I think her first meeting with Ayase showed this pretty well. Ayase told Kyousuke that Kirino is a really nice person at school as well. If you have paid close attention to the anime (yes, I think even the anime portrayed this well enough) you can see that Kirino treated only Kyousuke and Manami as bad as she did. And even the way she treated those two was really different.

In Kyousuke's case it was mostly disappointment, anger and frustration. She looked down on him in the beginning of the series. Kirino was clearly disappointed with her brother, because he had given up trying. The girl had always looked up to her big brother. She loved how he was good in everything he did, how he took matters in his own hands and how he wanted to help other people all the time. She wanted him to approve of her. Most importantly, she didn't want him to leave her behind. Since their 'levels' were so far apart in her eyes and because she feared that the distance between them would become even bigger, she decided to give it her all to catch up to him. No, she even wanted to surpass him and make him feel the same as her. Thus, she decided to focus on studying and track and field.

But after she decided to catch up to him, her brother suddenly changed into a lazy bum who gives up before even trying. She couldn't understand this and felt frustrated with him. In order to show her frustration she still decided to go all-out. She wanted to make him feel exactly what she had felt. Because she kept on trying and trying, she eventually became better than him in every single way and wanted to rub this into his face. She hated the way he was acting now and wanted the old Kyousuke back. That's why she looked down on him. For a long time she hadn't even looked at the 'plain Kyousuke' as her real brother. It was only a few years later (the start of the story) that she found out that her brother really was just an avarage person like her. That was the first step to opening up to him. Only when she noticed that he started to return to his old proactive self, while knowing that he was just an avarage guy, did she really accept the new Kyousuke as her brother.

In Manami's case, it's closer to hate. Kirino really blames Manami for changing Kyousuke. She really sees Manami as the 'final boss' of this game called life. And then there's a bit of jealousy.

I don't even know why you brought up Kuroneko, since Kirino and Kuroneko both badmouth each other all the time. It's just their way of dealing with each other. They both have a lot of pride and don't intend to hide this. Also, you do understand that both Kirino and Kuroneko have trouble being honest with each other? Even when they act like this, they understand each other better than anyone else.
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Old 2013-07-02, 15:30   Link #236
ryuujinjaaka
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Glad to see I got some responses C: This is gonna be long. I'll clarify that my opinions come from the LN in general, there might be differences.

1) My feelings about Kirino- isn't vengefulness a BAD character trait?!! I dunno. At this point we know Kirino wasn't proving her superiority to Kyou, so what's the point of her antics? She's just mad and she's taking it out on Kyou? I have to believe that that's cruel of her. That's the definition of cruelty.

It especially bothers me how Kirino is mean to Kyou because as far as I can tell he is a little depressive, though he gets better throughout the story (if you disagree I can explain). I just feel so bad for the guy.

Because I feel bad for Kyou and identify with him, I can't stand how Kirino constantly calls him ugly and disgusting, I can't stand when she scorns Kyousuke for totally innocent misunderstandings, and I don't like how she blames him for things that are her fault, which is more prominent in the LN. I don't think this is just tsundere/sister behavior (I like tsunderes, btw). Tsunderes just call you "baka." and won't say "arigato," and they act a little clumsy about it usually, and then warm up to you. Sisters bicker, but respect. Kirino, on the other hand, breaks Kyou down psychologically, laughs in his face, and blames him for everything, even though it's usually her fault. There's a difference imo. Tsunderes don't want to see you suffer. Kirino does. Oh yeah, she also hits him a lot,and for real, not in the comical way Ayase hits him. Physical abuse.

2) As for looking down on people- the LN says often that Kirino is conceited and looks down on people. This is a matter of fact, not opinion. But you all sort of agreed about this, though. A weird manifestation of this is how she constantly makes Kyousuke kneel to her like when she asks for things. WTH?

I get the impression that the author designed Kirino to be as infuriating as possible in the beginning in order to make Kyousuke as heroic as possible (which worked imo). I think the author also wanted to have the siscon theme and salvage Kirino's character in the end using her backstory, but it was too late for me to learn to like her.

Last edited by ryuujinjaaka; 2013-07-02 at 17:09.
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Old 2013-07-02, 15:46   Link #237
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I'll clarify that my opinions come from the LN in general, there might be differences.
i'm not so sure where you got this from the LN. the LN is actually more detailed than the anime. and so kirino's background is more thoroughly explained in the former. i don't how would could conclude kiri as vengeful when the LN explains otherwise...
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Old 2013-07-02, 16:04   Link #238
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i'm not so sure where you got this from the LN. the LN is actually more detailed than the anime. and so kirino's background is more thoroughly explained in the former. i don't how would could conclude kiri as vengeful when the LN explains otherwise...
Others have been saying that Kirino is trying to make Kyousuke feel what she felt when he picked on her, called her slow, etc. That's why I said vengeful. I'm just responding to that. I should have clarified.

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Old 2013-07-02, 17:02   Link #239
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Originally Posted by ryuujinjaaka View Post
Glad to see I got some responses C: This is gonna be long. I'll clarify that my opinions come from the LN in general, there might be differences.

1) My feelings about Kirino- isn't vengefulness a BAD character trait?!! I dunno. At this point we know Kirino wasn't proving her superiority to Kyou, so what's the point of her antics? She's just mad and she's taking it out on Kyou? I have to believe that that's cruel of her. That's the definition of cruelty.

It especially bothers me how Kirino is mean to Kyou because as far as I can tell he is a little depressive, though he gets better throughout the story (if you disagree I can explain). I just feel so bad for the guy.

Because I feel bad for Kyou and identify with him, I can't stand how Kirino constantly calls him ugly and disgusting, I can't stand when she scorns Kyousuke for totally innocent misunderstandings, and I don't like how she blames him for things that are her fault, which is more prominent in the LN. I don't think this is just tsundere/sister behavior (I like tsunderes, btw). Tsunderes just call you "baka." and won't say "arigato," and they act a little clumsy about it usually, and then warm up to you. Sisters bicker, but respect. Kirino, on the other hand, breaks Kyou down psychologically, laughs in his face, and blames him for everything, even though it's usually her fault. There's a difference imo. Tsunderes don't want to see you suffer. Kirino does. Oh yeah, she also hits him a lot,and for real, not in the comical way Ayase hits him. Physical abuse.

2) As for what I said about Kuroneko- what I'm referring to is that there was a time (in the LN I think) where Kirino flipped out in an argument and basically told Kuroneko that she is a failure at life who uses anime and cosplay to escape from the reality that she is a pitiful loser. It really hurt Kuroneko's feelings and she had to excuse herself. I understand their relationship is built on bickering, but that insult really crossed the line. I just got mad at Kirino when that happened.

3) As for looking down on people- the LN says often that Kirino is conceited and looks down on people. This is a matter of fact, not opinion. But you all sort of agreed about this, though. A weird manifestation of this is how she constantly makes Kyousuke bow to her. WTH?

I get the impression that the author designed Kirino to be as infuriating as possible in the beginning in order to make Kyousuke as heroic as possible (which worked imo). I think the author also wanted to have the siscon theme and salvage Kirino's character in the end using her backstory, but it was too late for me to learn to like her.
This is just one biased analysis IMO. I'm assuming that you ship(like) Kuroneko. And based on the LNs??? I really can't buy this. She just wanted to emulate her ''cool'' (back then) brother, even exceed him because he used to look down on her,thats why she changed her life style(stated in LN11) so she can overcome him. She simply wanted to keep up with him so she can get praise from him, thats what makes her happy,being recognized by him. But as you know,he changed completely and just became normal without a speck of motivation and that is what got her angry,and I dont blame her,because it doesnt make any sense to see the cool and overachieving brother turn into a lazy slob suddenly. Yeah for your second point about Kuroneko X Kirino, this is how they communicate, they are always like this,and if you tell me Kirino looks down on people then in S1 the OVAs where Kuroneko joined the game club,how was she treating them? Sena in particular. I think you know by now they are best friends and understand each other's feelings. For the text in bold, this is utter nonsense and I really would like some clear and obvious examples(any valid example except the one's that include Kyo and Kuroneko because we know why already,oh and also Manami since its obvious) yeah so you tell me.
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Old 2013-07-02, 17:26   Link #240
GVN.Chaos
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Others have been saying that Kirino is trying to make Kyousuke feel what she felt when he picked on her, called her slow, etc. That's why I said vengeful. I'm just responding to that. I should have clarified.
If you called that vengeful, then I strongly objected. A vengeful person in this case will actively trying to sabotage Kyousuke's effort, not trying to surpass them. In Kirino's case, I'd call it's a mix between her (unknowingly) wish to be like him and a wish for a small payback.
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