AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Valvrave the Liberator

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-05-20, 04:00   Link #1
monir
cho~ kakkoii
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
Valvrave the Liberator - Character Discussion - Rukino Saki

The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to discuss all things Rukino Saki related.

To keep the discussion enjoyable for all Valvrave the Liberator fans, please follow the guidelines below and stay on-topic!
Note: Please don't use this for the specifics (i.e. episode, chapter, game, etc. discussion) there are other threads for that stuff.
Thread Guidelines
  • No campaigning!
    No "hate" or "xyz must die" posts. Discuss why you do or don't like characters without whinging and whining or blatantly campaigning for your favourite.

  • Be polite to your fellow forum members.
    Do not insult or harass other members for their likes and dislikes. Do not take it so seriously that you end up in an argument with another forum member because they express a fondness for a character you loathe. Discussion and good spirited banter are always welcome, but harassing people will not be tolerated.

  • Discuss, don't chat.
    Please remember that AnimeSuki is a discussion forum, not a chat room, there is a difference. If you wish to chat, then please make use of our IRC channel.

  • Have fun, but post intelligently.
    It's great to have fun, but please try your best to add substance to what you post and make your thoughts interesting for the generation of fans that will follow after you’re long gone and on to watching some other series.

  • Use Spoiler tags!
    Spoilers are allowed, but they must be enclosed in spoiler tags clearly marked with a proper title. Failure to do this can result in a BAN.

    • Adding a Spoiler tag:
      Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms. Make sure that you include a title for the spoiler!

    • Please use the Report button if you see any spoilers:
      Click the button found to the left of the post, just under the poster's avatar. Using the Report button is anonymous and helps the Moderators to locate and deal with problems quickly.

    • Posting prohibited spoilers may result in a ban.
      Note: Reporting a post does not mean the poster will be banned instantly. The Moderators will use bans if warnings are repeatedly ignored.

Last edited by monir; 2013-05-22 at 17:43.
monir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-20, 09:24   Link #2
Arabesque
Licensed Hunter-a-holic
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 25
That's ... that's some interesting choice for this threads image

Never change, monir-san.

I have to say, before watching the episode and just from looking at the early reactions across the net, I imagined that episode would have shown her to be a Yuno Gasai type who just got out of the closet of sanity and started to wreck havoc and break shit. In actuality, she ended up being just mischievous and a little brazen (thought not to the extent shown in that image above! ). She certainly hadn't earned the Gasai badge of honour when it comes to insanity, and while I can see why people would think she is similar to Flay Allster, I honestly think the similarities are only skin deep if even that. Still, don't fuck with vengeful idols cause one day they'll turn to vampires and attempt to take over the universe. (VVV as a cautionary tale against the current idol industry?)

It is clear that she is without a doubt self serving and prideful to the point of sin, which I can understand why would make a lot of people think that she is not very likeable, but at the same time that doesn't make her crazy just (ironically enough given what she is now) very human. I look forward to what shape her story will take from this point onwards.

Another point of interest is her past, and whether what she said to Haruto ends up being true or not. Given the flashbacks she had, I suspect that there were hints of truths scattered here and there, with the result being that she was eventually forced to retire and brought down to earth. Whether she ended up causing her own misfortune in the past due to her own hubris or if she was handed a pretty lousy hand in life and she had to toughen up remains to be seen.
__________________
Arabesque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-20, 11:49   Link #3
Nvis
Grumpy Senior
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Full support for Saki no matter what she does(right or wrong).
Nvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-20, 12:08   Link #4
shadow1296
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
i believe that saki is the sheryl nome of this series
reasons being:
-both are idols, even though one is former one
-both have damaged pasts that they escaped by becoming idols
-both at one point wanted to become pilots, though one succeeded in doing so while the other did not
-both want to carve their existentence into the world so they are not forgotten

honestly the only difference between them is that saki didn't have a person like alto to support her when her contract was terminated so she is a little more damaged than sheryl
__________________
shadow1296 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-20, 12:36   Link #5
Endless Soul
Megane girl fan
 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
Age: 46
Personally, she is my favorite character in this show. Good character design, looks gorgeous. Not afraid to confront bullies. Willing to cook in just an apron. I wonder how she looks in glasses?

Endless "Vengeful idols" Soul
__________________
VF-19 and VF-22S from Macross Plus
Signature by ganbaru
Endless Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-20, 13:12   Link #6
Ledgem
Love Yourself
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1296 View Post
honestly the only difference between them is that saki didn't have a person like alto to support her when her contract was terminated so she is a little more damaged than sheryl
Sheryl Nome... I may be forgetting some details in the series, but Sheryl struck me as being a true heroine. I'm sorry to the Rukino fans, but as of episode 6 she comes off as being a very self-centered and artificial character. She's concerned with becoming famous when life-and-death matters are at stake. How delusional and shallow can you get?

The series was setting her up fairly well: a former idol who was quiet and didn't have many friends, and who has an abusive past. If it had remained that way then I'd still like her as a character. Yet she received a bit of power (Valvrave and "vampire" transformation) and she went nuts.
__________________
Ledgem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-20, 13:12   Link #7
Syokool
Lab. member 009
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 1.048596
Age: 26
I just love her (fan mode on)

My only reason to watch this series.
Syokool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-20, 13:40   Link #8
shadow1296
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Sheryl Nome... I may be forgetting some details in the series, but Sheryl struck me as being a true heroine. I'm sorry to the Rukino fans, but as of episode 6 she comes off as being a very self-centered and artificial character. She's concerned with becoming famous when life-and-death matters are at stake. How delusional and shallow can you get?

The series was setting her up fairly well: a former idol who was quiet and didn't have many friends, and who has an abusive past. If it had remained that way then I'd still like her as a character. Yet she received a bit of power (Valvrave and "vampire" transformation) and she went nuts.
first off saki didn't become fame crazy she was always fame crazy just didn't show it, second she believes that fame will bring her to a better life like it did before and she knows piloting a valvrave will bring her fame like it did for haruto, third saki willingly becoming a vampire is her going F-U to the thing that she felt rejected her humanity and the world in general, and fourth if sheryl didn't have people like alto and ranka's former manager than she probably would have ended up like saki or even worse because she has a far worse past than saki's
__________________

Last edited by shadow1296; 2013-05-20 at 15:21.
shadow1296 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-20, 13:44   Link #9
Xion Valkyrie
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
She was dealt a pretty bad hand in life, but when she saw an opportunity she took it and is making the most of it. When Haruto first got his body switching powers everyone was talking about the kind of things he should do to take advantage of it. However, he was too much of a normal 'main character' to take advantage of it but Saki is doing EXACTLY what we wanted Haruto to do with her new powers. She's flawed, but I'd say she's the most interesting character in Valverave.
Xion Valkyrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-20, 13:49   Link #10
Nayrael
The Faceless One
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Varaždin, Croatia
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to Nayrael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Sheryl Nome... I may be forgetting some details in the series, but Sheryl struck me as being a true heroine. I'm sorry to the Rukino fans, but as of episode 6 she comes off as being a very self-centered and artificial character. She's concerned with becoming famous when life-and-death matters are at stake. How delusional and shallow can you get?
Never understood why people think it matters if a mecha pilot is selfless or selfish. It is not like being selfless makes you a better pilot or anything.
Saki does her job (and skillfully from what we have seen) and, with all due right, she expects some degree of reward for putting her life on line.
__________________
Nayrael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-20, 14:58   Link #11
Ledgem
Love Yourself
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1296 View Post
first off saki didn't become crazy she was always crazy just didn't show it
I don't really know how you can make such an assertion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1296 View Post
second she believes that fame will bring her to a better life like it did before and she knows piloting a valvrave will bring her fame like it did for haruto, third saki willingly becoming a vampire is her going F-U to the thing that she felt rejected her humanity and the world in general, and fourth if sheryl didn't have people like alto and ranka's former manager than she probably would have ended up like saki or even worse because she has a far worse past than saki's
I don't get the impression that it's purely about getting a better life. What's wrong with her life as it was before she became a Valvrave pilot? She had lost her fame, but she was living in peace and away from her abusive parents. If it were just about the quality of life then the fame should not have mattered. After all, she claimed that the fame was originally a mechanism to get away from her parents. Why should she still be chasing fame?

I think she's chasing fame for the sake of the fame itself. It has nothing to do with quality of life. She didn't discard her humanity for the sake of anyone else, as Haruto did, she did it because she wanted to be "unique" and "special." She wants to be one of a kind, to stand out and be admired. She even utilized her newfound powers to take over Haruto's body and utilize his fame in order to bolster hers, seemingly without a care for what it might do to his relationships or life. I'm sorry, but that's disgusting behavior.

I don't remember enough about Macross to discuss the details of Sheryl Nome. All I can say is that what I remember feeling about Sheryl was very, very different compared with Saki.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayrael View Post
Never understood why people think it matters if a mecha pilot is selfless or selfish. It is not like being selfless makes you a better pilot or anything.
Saki does her job (and skillfully from what we have seen) and, with all due right, she expects some degree of reward for putting her life on line.
It doesn't have anything to do with piloting abilities, it has to do with who is deserving of power and who will use that power accordingly. As far as I'm concerned, Saki quickly abused her power shortly after gaining it, taking over Haruto's body and then acting in his stead to further herself.

It's not a bad thing for the series to do this. The route of having all pilots clearly defined with hero or villain traits has already been done in practically every mecha series in existence. Having "hero" pilots who harbor selfish or shallow ambitions and who would use their powers and machines for their own benefit can cause the plot to go in interesting directions. It's just my opinion that I'd like to see Saki either gain some humility and care for others, or if she continues on the selfish and arrogant path, get smacked down.
__________________
Ledgem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-20, 15:00   Link #12
shadow1296
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayrael View Post
Never understood why people think it matters if a mecha pilot is selfless or selfish. It is not like being selfless makes you a better pilot or anything.
Saki does her job (and skillfully from what we have seen) and, with all due right, she expects some degree of reward for putting her life on line.
in truth they don't some of the best pilots i've seen are usually the self centered playboys
__________________

Last edited by shadow1296; 2013-05-20 at 17:32.
shadow1296 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-20, 15:07   Link #13
MisaoFan
Treasure-Seeking Explorer
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Paris, France
Saki is awesome as a character, I love her appearance, but at the same time she acts pretty selfish at times, mentions a thing about her dark past, I thought she would fall for Haruto but I'm still pretty conflicted about her feelings towards him. It's obvious the way she names her Valvrave as Carmilla implies that she's a major fan of fiction (including vampire titles of course).
On the other hand, she wants fame, attention as well singing over everyone to bring her own will as well her popularity, I'm curious to see more than that, and I really wanted to see what kind of relationship with Shouko would be like (I'm hoping them to be friends).
__________________
<img src=http://i.imgur.com/O5yUSnx.png border=0 alt= />I will protect you from the darkness and I change my destiny.
MyAnimeList
MisaoFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-20, 15:14   Link #14
Arabesque
Licensed Hunter-a-holic
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
The series was setting her up fairly well: a former idol who was quiet and didn't have many friends, and who has an abusive past. If it had remained that way then I'd still like her as a character. Yet she received a bit of power (Valvrave and "vampire" transformation) and she went nuts.
I can see her going back to being likeable again depending on how they handle her past and if they decide to go down the route of her adopting this self serving world view due to suffering and being constantly brought down by the world around her. So just make her one tough cookie with a soft inside (in that she actually just wants to gain control over her own fate and actually is less selfish than she lets on i.e. she cares for her friends)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1296 View Post
first off saki didn't become crazy she was always crazy just didn't show it
I have to ask, is because my views are incredibly skewed due to seeing crazy folks in anime that made me not think of Saki being crazy? I mean I haven't seen signs of typical insane mannerisms that would tip me off so ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayrael View Post
Never understood why people think it matters if a mecha pilot is selfless or selfish. It is not like being selfless makes you a better pilot or anything.
Saki does her job (and skillfully from what we have seen) and, with all due right, she expects some degree of reward for putting her life on line.
Ledgem wasn't talking about how her selfish personality collrated with her piloting skills though. He was talking about how much her selfish personality clouded her views to the point where she jumped in head first into battle without any actual plan of action. It might have all turned out fine by the end, but it doesn't change that how she came across with her behaviour.
__________________
Arabesque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-20, 15:20   Link #15
shadow1296
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
I can see her going back to being likeable again depending on how they handle her past and if they decide to go down the route of her adopting this self serving world view due to suffering and being constantly brought down by the world around her. So just make her one tough cookie with a soft inside (in that she actually just wants to gain control over her own fate and actually is less selfish than she lets on i.e. she cares for her friends)

I have to ask, is because my views are incredibly skewed due to seeing crazy folks in anime that made me not think of Saki being crazy? I mean I haven't seen signs of typical insane mannerisms that would tip me off so ...


Ledgem wasn't talking about how her selfish personality collrated with her piloting skills though. He was talking about how much her selfish personality clouded her views to the point where she jumped in head first into battle without any actual plan of action. It might have all turned out fine by the end, but it doesn't change that how she came across with her behaviour.
i meant to type fame crazy

to be fair she thought she was immortal because she was in the cockpit when l-elf said he killed haruto, to which she had a rude wake up call during the fight with her realizing she can be killed
__________________
shadow1296 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-20, 18:08   Link #16
Key Board
Donut
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
I don't take her words at face value

It's like when someone is saying they are doing this "for the money". Of course they are, but why do they need that? To pay a debt? To fund some crazy project? Are they living from paycheck to paycheck? Do they live in crap-sack world which made them disillusioned from ideals and pretty words? It's rare that someone says that simply because they are greedy.

Likewise Saki is saying she is doing this for fame. But why?
"If I don't my existence with vanish" is her answer, but what does it really mean?

It's clear that not having a good relationship with her father is one factor.

Idol job is probably another. If it's anything like the real world Japanese idol industry than being an idol is really quite a crappy job, so I don't think she is the only bitter ex-idol who was cast away. But it's another chip on her shoulder

"The world tried to kill me" shows that she views the world as a whole as antagonistic towards her and she feels victimized

Finally her obsession with vampires are not just because Valvrave turns you into a neck biting non-human, but because vampires are traditionally seen as outcast of society. People who can't fit in. She identifies with that.

So what I think she's really saying is she wants someone to acknowledge her. But I don't think she understands this herself.

I think gaining one million followers on Twitters will act as a stop gap, but in the end it will not make her feel fulfilled.

additionally, while she claims she doesn't have any interest in Haruto, that line asking him about how it felt being a lonesome vampire suggest that she empathizes with that
__________________

-- Mushoku Tensei. on the dangers of osananajimi attachment
Key Board is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-20, 18:13   Link #17
Nayrael
The Faceless One
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Varaždin, Croatia
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to Nayrael
I think the key is in "How did it feel to be a forsaken vampire?" question. It was after she asked it that, I conclude from the scene, she wanted to tell Haruto why she is really doing all of this. However, Shouko interrupted it so we'll have to wait for one of later ep's.
__________________
Nayrael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-20, 18:19   Link #18
Key Board
Donut
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
I think Saki's problem in a gist is:

1) She has trouble trusting others, yet at the same time she wants to be acknowledged

2) She wants to be acknowledged, but not just any kind of normal person will do. She doesn't want it to come from fanboys either (fanboys are for adoration, which is different). It is said she is aloof and rejected the attention when she first came. Or maybe she's just paranoid that they approached her out of pity for an ex-idol. I don't know. To our knowledge the only person she acknowledges as a friend is Aina.

3) She is trying find kindred spirits. She probably sees this in Haruto.

But it seems if you're someone like Shoko you can force her to open up, even though you are not a kindred spirit. xd
__________________

-- Mushoku Tensei. on the dangers of osananajimi attachment
Key Board is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-21, 05:41   Link #19
NeutralZero
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Earth
Doubt what we saw in that ep is all Saki has to offer...
Probably just the tip of the iceberg... what is more interesting is not what was her motivation from the start but where will she go and what methods she'll used to reach the end...
People change... especially in war...
Still like her character...
NeutralZero is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-21, 11:41   Link #20
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
I think that Saki is meant to be a foil for Haruto (and vice versa). Consider the many ways in which they differ, if not be complete opposites:

1. Haruto views becoming a Space Vampire as a terrible curse, something he doesn't want to befall any of his fellow students.
Saki views becoming a Space Vampire as a tremendous benefit, something to be jealously guarded from others (hence her and Haruto agree to keep secret the existence of numerous Valvraves, albeit for completely opposite reasons )

2. Haruto fights for others (first for Shouko, later for the student-state in general)
Saki fights for her own personal benefit (primarily fame and attention)

3. Haruto doesn't appear to care about becoming more popular, per se.
Saki desires fame and attention.

4. Haruto views personal popularity as a tool that can lead to useful ends.
Saki views personal popularity as a desirable end unto itself.

5. On the whole, Haruto is an optimist that embraces the rest of humanity.
On the whole, Saki is a cynic that views humanity in general in a negative light.


If handled well, you could have a good ying/yang, thesis/antithesis thing going on with these two characters. Hopefully, over time, the two might round each other out. It's not at all hard for me to imagine Haruto and Saki getting into a heated disagreement at some point given their wildly different goals and perspectives.


I think that Saki is a good character, because she's amusing and interesting. But I certainly do see where Ledgem is coming from.


Edit: I'm going to be very interested in seeing if Saki survives through the end of this anime. A character calling oneself "invincible" is about as loud a Death Flag as you can get. Should Saki ever die in combat, I'll definitely point to that as her death flag. Should she survive through the end of this anime, then this will be a rather neat example of a Death Flag being subverted.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
characters

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 20:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.