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Old 2006-03-13, 10:37   Link #81
malvado
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Yup and yet Nidaime was considered the greatest ninja of his time right after his brother. Not just cuz he created a academy. He was incredibly strong as well. He was called the Hokage not just for fun. The databook clearly says he was really proud of his superior combat ability and was extremely skilled at suiton no jutsus.
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Old 2013-05-16, 14:48   Link #82
yani kuro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
You remember correctly and it's partially an anime filler/mistake.
In the manga the Shodai and Nidaime aren't together when they talk to Sarutobi, a first panel shows Shodai talking about the way he sees Konoha's people and then a 2nd panel bellow shows Nidaime saying to Sarutobi that he was going to be the next Hokage.
The anime team showed both the Hokage together talking to Sarutobi, that's the difference.

There is no real information about when or how they died. The 1st Data Book states that Shodai died shortly after the creation of the village and Nidaime inherited then the title. He created the ninja academy and others organizations within the village but died after the Great Ninja War broke out.
According to some information i read several years ago, Sarutobi was born 10 years after the foundation of Konoha, meaning Shodaime lived at least 10 years after the village's creation, plus Shodaime saw Tsunade growing up and even tought her gambling, so I would say Shodaime died at least 20 years after he created the village.
Back to the original topic: It is said that Shodaime is the God of all shinobi and the best ninja of his time. Kabuto called him the greatest ninja ever.
Madara was also strong, able to compete with Shodaime, but he talks about Tobirama with respect, saying Tobirama would probably be the next Hokage.
Madara considers the 5 kage nothing compared to him, but he believed that Tobirama was strong and even asked Hashirama to kill Tobirama, which means he was not capable of doing it himself.
So, Tobirama was probably also stronger than Madara, but yet he believed Shodaime could killl him, when Madara told Hashirama to commit suicide or kill Tobirama, so Shodaime> Tobirama.
Sarutobi is considered the greatest ninja ever, even better than Shodaime, Nidaime and Madara, and yet, he shitted in this pants when Orochimaru tried to summon Yondaime, stopping Minato's coffin from beeing summoned at all costs, so I believe Yondaime is the most powerful shinobi.
Personally, I am not a Yondaime fan/groupie, but I believe he was the most powerful shinobi, maybe not against a bijuu, but againt another human being, he was invincible.
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Old 2013-05-16, 15:44   Link #83
Sasukemaru
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Madara asked Hashirama to kill Tobirama not because he couldn't, but because he wanted Hashirama to prove he wanted to make amends with him. How would Madara killing Tobirama prove Hashirama wants to work with him? It doesn't.

By now everyone should know the first Hokage Hashirama Senju is the strongest out of not only all the Hokage, but all ninja. The only ones who think otherwise do so out of either fandom for a certain character, or general dislike of Hashirama obviously being the strongest. The more interesting question now would be, the order in which someone would rank the Hokage.

1st Hokage- Unique wood release, self healing, sage mode, recognized as the God of shinobi.

2nd Hokage- Extremely powerful water jutsu, creator of the edo tensei, skilled at space time ninjutsu.

3rd Hokage- Mastered every jutsu in the Leaf village, trained the legendary sannin, known as the professor by his peers.

4th Hokage- Unrivaled speed, advanced space time ninjutsu, highly advanced sealing jutsu.

5th Hokage- Expert medical ninja, unrivaled physical strength, immortal in battle for as long as her seal has chakra stored.

Going off all their abilities, feats, and reputations. My order would be this.

1
4
3
2
5
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Old 2013-05-16, 21:27   Link #84
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I normally wouldn't double post, but my phone is being stupid. With that said, I don't think you can measure a Kage's greatness in their battle power...it has to be determined in their ability to govern. So let's review.

1st- established the leaf and by extension the current ninja system. Defended the leaf against his best friend madara and the 9 tails simultaneously. Distributed bijuu to all nations to assure equal power, a type of mutual assured destruction if you will. Died not long after becoming hokage.

2nd- ruled with a more militant attitude. Created tension between the leaf and uchiha by isolating the uchiha to a corner of the village. Died in the first ninja war.

3rd- betrayed the leaf by allowing oro to live when he still had the power to stop him. Allowed danzo to operate in the dark to keep his own hands clean. Failed to prevent the uchiha massacre. Died in oro's invasion of the leaf along with countless others, which all could have been prevented if he didn't act with emotions and finished oro off years earlier. Definitely the worst hokage, responsible for hundreds if not thousands of deaths.

4th- died defending the leaf against obito and the 9 tails, because of his short lived reign he did nothing beyond that.

5th- took appropriate measures to destroy the akatsuki, allowed the leaf to be completely destroyed by pain, failed to defeat madara in the ninja war with the help of every other kage. Tsunade is definitely the most ineffective hokage of them all.

All that listed, i think hashirama was not only the strongest hokage, but the best leader of them as well.
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Old 2013-05-17, 01:45   Link #85
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Originally Posted by EEZP View Post
I think the 4th was because he was the one who stopped Kyubbi.
The first stopped Kyuubi and Madara at the same time.

The first hokage fought the strongest Uchiha to ever live, while he had the Kyuubi in FULL chakra as an aid. So the first Hokage is at least doubly as powerful as the fourth.

The Fourth fought Zombito and then got crushed by the Kyuubi somewhere else with Kushina's chains holding him in place.

It could even be argued that Naruto wasn't as strong of a Jinchuuriki by virtue that Kushina had the entire Kyuubi sealed inside of her and Naruto only had half.

It's all about perspective. And no the Shodaime is not called the God of Shinobi. That's the Sandaime's title.
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Old 2013-05-17, 03:29   Link #86
ranchan13
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I think this entire arguement will be a mute point when the 6th Hokage comes around at the end of the series. Seriously, Naruto as Hokage with full control and use of all of Kyubi's chakra and power, there won't be a single ninja who could stand up to him.

And we all know that this will happen either when the series ends, or it will be set up to happen soon after.
Just have to say it, since I made this prediction back in '06. 7 years later, and it's looking like I was correct, as far as the manga is showing.

Anyways, I still say that each of the first 4 Hokages were indeed the strongest in their own way, and they can't be properly compared. We saw flat out in the anime (though I admit, it was before the retcon that made the 1st out to be a god) that the third fought and defeated the first and second while also fighting to a draw with Orochimaru. He made it a point to prevent the 4th's revival, because he would have (as he admitted) lost easily.

Going by more recent manga developments, I believe that each of the first 4 could win or lose in a fight with any of the others dependent on various conditions. I'd venture to sat that they are on an even level.

But again, this all becomes moot when Naruto becomes Hokage, because he'll have a power beyond any of them, since the manga is going in that direction.
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Old 2013-05-17, 10:15   Link #87
Sasukemaru
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You two must not read the manga, the First Hokage IS the strongest Hokage. It's not even a matter for debate anymore. It's 100 percent fact now. Seriously?

And correct yourself, the First is the God of Shinobi, not the Third. Kishi changed his mind on who that title belonged to when he decided the First would be the strongest. But you don't even know the First is the strongest, so how could you know that?

I don't know what time capsule you two have been sealed in for the past few years. But in 2013 Hashirama is the only one recognized as the god of shinobi, and he is without question the strongest of the hokage. There is no "well they're equal" lmao. Wake up and smell the coffee boys. It's a recession and im paying in reality checks.

He didn't want the 4th to be revived because 3 vs 1, is still easier then 4 vs 1...DUH.

Honestly what is this world coming to? Next you're gonna try to debate the sky isn't blue.
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Old 2013-05-17, 13:17   Link #88
CJ_Walker
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Originally Posted by Sasukemaru View Post

And correct yourself, the First is the God of Shinobi, not the Third. Kishi changed his mind on who that title belonged to when he decided the First would be the strongest. But you don't even know the First is the strongest, so how could you know that?

Pretty much this, First it was Sarutobi who was "God of Shinobi" and "The Professor" knowing all jutsus in Konoha etc etc. . .

but then Kishi Retconned that because Kishi took too many trolling lessons from Kubo.

I'm assuming that he'll make Naruto the strongest Kage of all time eventually too.

SO basically, since This title of Strongest _____ ever has been retconned by kishi so many times, discussing it here is pretty useless, making this thread unnecessary.

Last edited by Hunter; 2013-05-21 at 12:48.
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Old 2013-05-22, 06:34   Link #89
Monster0
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Made up characters are as strong as they need to be.Or as weak,stupid ,smart etc...
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Old 2013-05-23, 02:23   Link #90
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In my opinion respectively,I say all of the Hokages are strongest in their own ways and strengths. The titles they earned is not for earned for nothing; it is with sweat, blood and hardwork.

Spoiler for 2 examples : The Yondaime and Nidaime:
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Old 2013-05-23, 03:43   Link #91
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Say what you want but... I honestly think Tsunade is super weak as Hokage. she can't even beat regular Akatsuki members. And I hate the "well she is healing the village" argument. Gaara didn't have to heal his village and still put up a decent fight to Deidara. Minato didn't heal Konoha and defended it from Tobi/Kyuubi.

To this date, the first Hokage is the ONLY Hokage that eliminated the village's greatest threat during his reign, and survive afterward. He sent Madara packing when Madara had Kyuubi on his side and lived to TELL about it.

Third died to Orochimaru. Orochimaru succeeded in his assassination of the Third.

Second died to some army of a bunch of random shinobi.

Fourth was crushed by a chained Kyuubi.

Tsunade got put in a coma by Pain's appearance and he never even laid a finger on her. Konoha was almost completely destroyed in the process.

Danzou was crushed by Sasuke and never even returned to Konoha as Hokage.
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Old 2013-05-23, 20:37   Link #92
itachi-san314
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the stongest hokage is obviously sarutobi since he was called the god of shinobi a decade ago before countless retcons. there's no possible other way to see things... j/k it's hashirama guys. any other answers are just completely ignoring kishi's words over the past year or two.
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Old 2013-05-26, 07:28   Link #93
Ushio the Omega
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Originally Posted by Essenar View Post
Say what you want but... I honestly think Tsunade is super weak as Hokage. she can't even beat regular Akatsuki members. And I hate the "well she is healing the village" argument. Gaara didn't have to heal his village and still put up a decent fight to Deidara. Minato didn't heal Konoha and defended it from Tobi/Kyuubi.

To this date, the first Hokage is the ONLY Hokage that eliminated the village's greatest threat during his reign, and survive afterward. He sent Madara packing when Madara had Kyuubi on his side and lived to TELL about it.

Third died to Orochimaru. Orochimaru succeeded in his assassination of the Third.

Second died to some army of a bunch of random shinobi.

Fourth was crushed by a chained Kyuubi.

Tsunade got put in a coma by Pain's appearance and he never even laid a finger on her. Konoha was almost completely destroyed in the process.

Danzou was crushed by Sasuke and never even returned to Konoha as Hokage.

The Second died fighting Kinkaku, Ginkaku and 18 of there subordinates.
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Old 2013-05-26, 07:42   Link #94
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The Second died fighting Kinkaku, Ginkaku and 18 of there subordinates.
The plot hole there is that one who knows Edo Tensei and could summon both Madara and Hashirama should win. The human sacrifice could be any enemy ninja captured, even genins, and i wouldn't even call using sacrifices evil since killing was their everyday job. Well the plot hole is Edo Tensei itself
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Old 2013-05-31, 21:52   Link #95
Mr. Johnny 5
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How would you define the strongest?

When it comes to physical strenght it would be Tsunade. [5th]
When it comes to speed it would be Minato [4th]
When it comes to surviving and perhaps experience it would be Hiruzen [3rd]
When it comes to tactical and battle skills it would be Tobirama [2nd]
When it comes to overall power, abilities to defend and attack massive chakra's it would be Hashirama [1st]
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Old 2013-06-01, 15:39   Link #96
Essenar
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
How would you define the strongest?

When it comes to physical strenght it would be Tsunade. [5th]
When it comes to speed it would be Minato [4th]
When it comes to surviving and perhaps experience it would be Hiruzen [3rd]
When it comes to tactical and battle skills it would be Tobirama [2nd]
When it comes to overall power, abilities to defend and attack massive chakra's it would be Hashirama [1st]
I feel like you just made up reasons to give them all some kind of merit.

Tsunade's physical strength is grossly over-estimated. She used it to punch some pillar off a building when Pain was attacking Konoha. Raikage is visibly stronger. You can't minimize other attributes for the sake of emphasizing one. Like saying you have the fastest black Honda Civic within a 1 mile radius or some variation of that type of argument.

Combat abilities, speed, leadership... Most attributes that would be deemed worthy of a shinobi all go to Hashirama.

Minato would be second place. Despite his short reign, he protected Konoha and sent Tobi with his tail between his legs. He fought Raikage and Bee simultaneously to a stalemate and A himself called Minato a man he would never think would be defeated.

Based on the way the manga is going at the moment, I would rank:
1) Hashirama
2) Minato
3) Tobirama
4) Sarutobi
5) Danzou
6) Tsunade

Yeah that's right, I rank Danzou above Tsunade. At least he went toe to toe against Sasuke, who at that point had gone toe to toe with other kage's and forced him to go nearly blind spamming his MS abilities. Tsunade literally did NOTHING against Pain and has done nearly nothing this whole war.
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Old 2013-06-01, 18:52   Link #97
Hunter
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Tsunade's physical strength is grossly over-estimated. She used it to punch some pillar off a building when Pain was attacking Konoha. Raikage is visibly stronger.
And to wield Gamabinta's sword, create chasm in the ground with a finger, break Madara's Susanoo's sword with her bare hands and cut its armor with it, etc.
Madara took punches from both and stated that Tsunade's were more powerful than the Raikage's.
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Old 2013-06-01, 22:28   Link #98
itachi-san314
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Combat abilities, speed, leadership... Most attributes that would be deemed worthy of a shinobi all go to Hashirama.

Minato would be second place.
there's a few things wrong with your post, but i'll just focus on this one. minato is unquestionably the fastest hokage. he's the fastest ninja ever with possibly the exception of naruto. we literally just saw minato beat all the other hokages to the fight
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Old 2013-06-01, 23:24   Link #99
Mr. Johnny 5
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Originally Posted by Essenar View Post
I feel like you just made up reasons to give them all some kind of merit.

Tsunade's physical strength is grossly over-estimated. She used it to punch some pillar off a building when Pain was attacking Konoha. Raikage is visibly stronger. You can't minimize other attributes for the sake of emphasizing one. Like saying you have the fastest black Honda Civic within a 1 mile radius or some variation of that type of argument.

Combat abilities, speed, leadership... Most attributes that would be deemed worthy of a shinobi all go to Hashirama.

Minato would be second place. Despite his short reign, he protected Konoha and sent Tobi with his tail between his legs. He fought Raikage and Bee simultaneously to a stalemate and A himself called Minato a man he would never think would be defeated.

Based on the way the manga is going at the moment, I would rank:
1) Hashirama
2) Minato
3) Tobirama
4) Sarutobi
5) Danzou
6) Tsunade

Yeah that's right, I rank Danzou above Tsunade. At least he went toe to toe against Sasuke, who at that point had gone toe to toe with other kage's and forced him to go nearly blind spamming his MS abilities. Tsunade literally did NOTHING against Pain and has done nearly nothing this whole war.
I didnt make that up. In certain ways some individuals are allowed to be called the strongest of best. Especially when we talk about just a few individuals.

This was unfortunatly for you also supported by other respected members here.
[5th] Tsunade has superior physical strenght.
[4th] Minato has superior speed.
[3rd] Hiruzen might be the one with the most knowlegde because of his age and perhaps talent with techniques.
[2nd] About the others we can all debate but... it seems that the real mind, tactical and strategic master is more likely Tobirama then Hashirama. I'd say his quick decisions about naming Hiruzen Hokage, saving them all, the future. His move to give the Uchiha a certain role, to decide how the 1st Hokage would be chosen, to speak before Hashirama started when talking to Orochimaru and the others... He is more of a thinker i'd say compared to Hashirama.
[1st] I think he is the strongest overall and is able to win against bijuu's and even combined with a top ninja as Madara. He divided the other bijuu with the other villages right?
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Old 2013-06-03, 05:56   Link #100
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Hashirama certainly is a powerful guy,but personally i don't think any of his enemies exploited his weaknesses. Madara or any one else yet shown in a battle with Hashirama never brought the right weapons to table.For instance his wood style is famous for suppressing and absorbing chakra,if he absorb nature chakra like the one pein did he would become a frog statue,that's just one thing.Another is the insect using ninja,i know it sounds funny but carpenter ants termites and the like would reek havoc on any wood style.
I doubt any of these quirks well be of any relevance at this point in the story.I just can't help but believe Itachi when he said every Jutsu has a weakness.Oh well until the next video game makes them all equals i still pick Minato as most powerful with 9tails cloak.I'm waiting to see Hashirama prove me wrong though,he really hasn't been able to do much so far.
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