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Old 2013-05-31, 21:49   Link #941
Nightengale
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At the core of it all, what other stuff does Sony need to show anyway?

They're not going to match XBONE in terms of US Live TV integration, Kinect, PC-lite features (Bing/IE/etc) as well as the multi-tasking/tabbing. (the so-called three OS feature)

But those aspects of the XBONE are highly about usability & versatility. It's much less about what they have, but rather how it's controlled. And 'control' is very subjective, you may or may not like it.

In my personal capacity, I'm personally not going to play a video-game, while having a 'tab' of Skype or GameFAQs open on one side. It'll ruin my immersion. I'd much rather use my tablet by my side if I need to be 'distracted' by a 2nd screen, not pop up a 2nd mini-screen on the TV while I'm playing.

But content-wise? PS4 is definitely going to have all the content apps like Netflix, etc. The interface would be different, but aside from that, PS4 is not going to be inferior in the depth of multimedia content. (aside from the NFL and exclusive XBONE stuff, but Sony will have theirs too in some form. )

The various pros & cons aside, it still boils down to the games, imo.
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Old 2013-05-31, 21:55   Link #942
Chaos2Frozen
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Old 2013-06-01, 02:17   Link #943
demino_hellsin
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Wait... so you'll get gamefaqs on how to get all the TV achievements? *headscratch*
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Old 2013-06-01, 03:35   Link #944
Dextro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
@0utf0xZer0

I have a new question for you, since you seem convinced that Microsoft is on the up-and-up here.

Why exactly does the camera and microphones have to be on all the time (and recording everything it catches, from what I've read) when using the XBox One? Then when you combine that with the every 24 hours internet check-in...

As a friend of mine said "There is such a thing as being properly paranoid".
Because it's the only feasible way to make the console wakeup on demand with a voice command for instance. And Kinect is mandatory to avoid the same pitfall they fell into on the 360: optional, non-bundled peripherals are NOT used by majority of games. Microsoft wants games to use the bloody thing so they do everything they can to make sure everyone has one functional.

Occam's Razor: the simplest answer is usually the correct one.


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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, we're seeing major backlash right now over the 24-hour internet check-in "feature". I don't see how that's any way preferable to ticking off "the first mom" a few months down the line, after the console has already been bought.
Because a bunch of gamers whining over this is nowhere near as bad as having moms show up on fox news complaining about the next "sexbox". As much as gamers whine plenty of them will still buy the bloody thing. On top of that the regular consumer probably won't even notice the used games thing since he'll still be able to pick up his kids copy of Madden and trade it in to buy the next one at Gamestop.
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Old 2013-06-01, 04:15   Link #945
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
@0utf0xZer0

I have a new question for you, since you seem convinced that Microsoft is on the up-and-up here.

Why exactly does the camera and microphones have to be on all the time (and recording everything it catches, from what I've read) when using the XBox One? Then when you combine that with the every 24 hours internet check-in...
Because the camera is part of the user interface and if you want to control it some other way you're a luddite who probably thinks Windows 8 should have a start button like Windows 95 through Windows 7 did.

No seriously. That's totally a Microsoft move. Building a giant spy network not so much.

Also, it's not clear yet that the cameras will be on all the time. Several articles contradict it and say the camera won't function in low power (re: standby) modes. Plus, even if it is always on, it's not like they can do anything if you aim it at the wall when it isn't in use.

Voice, on the other hand, presumably is always on since you can boot the console via voice. Most likely they'll address the privacy concerns and what data they collect in a dry, boring End User License Agreement at some point. Because they're Microsoft.
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Old 2013-06-01, 04:23   Link #946
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
And Kinect is mandatory to avoid the same pitfall they fell into on the 360: optional, non-bundled peripherals are NOT used by majority of games. Microsoft wants games to use the bloody thing so they do everything they can to make sure everyone has one functional.

Occam's Razor: the simplest answer is usually the correct one.
The fact that the Kinect is bundled with every console is already sufficient to allow majority of games to take advantage of it.

Making Kinect MANDATORY to use the console at all, however, is clearly malicious. Because there is no consumer benefit to have Kinect being necessary to turn the whole thing on.

Quote:
Also, it's not clear yet that the cameras will be on all the time.
The camera will be on when Microsoft want it on. They have the power to remote-alter the software every time you perform the mandatory daily login. It's not the fact that it is on all the time; it is that you as a customer has no real control over it. You only have MS's promise that you could turn it off on your end; but MS reserve the right to turn the camera back on on their end when they want to, unless you stop performing the daily login and turn your console into a doorstop.
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Old 2013-06-01, 04:40   Link #947
Sides
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
..Plus, even if it is always on, it's not like they can do anything if you aim it at the wall when it isn't in use.
Think you are underestimating kinect2. That thing has highly sophisticated IR sensors, i mean can even determine your heart rate at some distance. It probably can detect bodyheath through some walls.
It wouldn't surprise me that MS has offered Xbone to governments (health departments) and private medical companies, to be used for diagnosing patient form a distance.
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Old 2013-06-01, 04:46   Link #948
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The camera will be on when Microsoft want it on. They have the power to remote-alter the software every time you perform the mandatory daily login. It's not the fact that it is on all the time; it is that you as a customer has no real control over it. You only have MS's promise that you could turn it off on your end; but MS reserve the right to turn the camera back on on their end when they want to, unless you stop performing the daily login and turn your console into a doorstop.
1) Depends on how the hardware design. Power states are often implemented at hardware level.
2) Invasion of privacy can be the basis of a civil suit in the US. Pretty sure they're going to define what the data is used for in the license agreements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Making Kinect MANDATORY to use the console at all, however, is clearly malicious. Because there is no consumer benefit to have Kinect being necessary to turn the whole thing on.
There was no real consumer benefit to removing the start button from Windows 8 either. They just wanted everyone to adopt to new UI paradigms or something. I suspect the same here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sides View Post
Think you are underestimating kinect2. That thing has highly sophisticated IR sensors, i mean can even determine your heart rate at some distance. It probably can detect bodyheath through some walls.
It wouldn't surprise me that MS has offered Xbone to governments (health departments) and private medical companies, to be used for diagnosing patient form a distance.
The thing about IR being able to see through walls is, as I understand it, myth. Even glass can screw with IR imaging.
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Old 2013-06-01, 04:59   Link #949
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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1) Depends on how the hardware design. Power states are often implemented at hardware level.
The worrying thing is that MS told us "yes, you can turn off the Knect, but we will give you more details later on HOW."

The fact that MS needs to delay announcing the presence of a power button is frighting. It shouldn't even be a big deal to have an off switch for a piece of hardware; but it seems MS can't even tell us that. Instead, it's "we will tell you how to turn Kinect off when we are ready to announce it". That's not good news by any stretch of the imagination.
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Old 2013-06-01, 08:41   Link #950
Sides
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
The thing about IR being able to see through walls is, as I understand it, myth. Even glass can screw with IR imaging.
^^ don't take my comments too serious.
IR sensor just pickup heat radiation, it cannot see anything, it just detects heat.
In most case it will just show areas on a surface where heat escapes to the side side where the camera is located at.
Glass don't screw it up thermal/IR images, they just do their job.
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Old 2013-06-02, 02:44   Link #951
Slayerx
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
A console does not have to be the best seller to succeed. In fact, Nintendo hasn't been #1 since the SNES days. They still made massive profits with the Wii.
The Wii was the best seller of the last generation. They have sold close to 100 million units while PS3 and the 360 are still 70-80 million


Really i think nintendo had a very smart approach... instead of directly compete with Sony and 360 they found a way to coexist. Gamers often have to choose only one console over another because its too hard too afford them all... By making a console that was more affordable and providing a game experience completely unlike what sony and MS was offering, they in turn made themselves more inviting as a second console purchase... not many gamers have both a 360 and a ps3, but you can find many that have a wii and one of those two

They tried to keep it going with the Wii U, but it seems like the new game play experience they tried to make has not gotten remotely the same positive response that the wii mote did.

and though the wii did get hurt by holding back on graphics i think it would have been smart if both sony and MS had held back. Developers move at the rate of the limitation of consoles, no faster. When it comes down to it, those high end graphics and abilities do drive up production costs; better gameplay not so much... frankly the PS3 and the 360 probably could have kept going for a few more years. Take things slower so that it either becomes easier to afford higher end specs in games or for the gamer base to grow larger to help make up the costs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by takai View Post
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/...-talk-tv-at-e3

Called it. It was really smart what Microsoft did actually. In the first conference they said the name, showed what it looked like, and showed what it can do entertainment wise. And then at E3 it's going to be nothing but games. This was actually great planning by Microsoft. Unlike Sony who is going to be explaining multiple different things other than games, which will most likely result to a poor E3 showing.
No... no it wasn't. You only get ONE chance ot make a first impression and Microsoft screwed their's. Really, the simpliest reason why it was idiotic is that they could have done BOTH. Nothing was stopping them from making their announcment event 2 hours long to give them plenty of time to cover the XBONE's Tv features while at the exact same time giving gamers what they wanted to hear. Microsoft has been thrown into complete damage control mode since the event to try and appeased disappointed gamers, and they will likely have to keep doing that even past E3... trust is difficult to build but easy to break and Microsoft broke it. The weight of a bad reveal and the rumors that spread won't be forgotten over night and it may hurt them.
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Old 2013-06-02, 06:20   Link #952
Westlo
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
They tried to keep it going with the Wii U, but it seems like the new game play experience they tried to make has not gotten remotely the same positive response that the wii mote did.
Look how many iphones, ipads and andriod phones are on the market, where is the "wow" appeal of a tablet controller in this market in that regard? The motion control "wow" appeal was off the scale even if it ended up being a fad and/or dulled by Kinect and Move.

Quote:
and though the wii did get hurt by holding back on graphics i think it would have been smart if both sony and MS had held back. Developers move at the rate of the limitation of consoles, no faster. When it comes down to it, those high end graphics and abilities do drive up production costs; better gameplay not so much... frankly the PS3 and the 360 probably could have kept going for a few more years. Take things slower so that it either becomes easier to afford higher end specs in games or for the gamer base to grow larger to help make up the costs.
They have held back, the R&D costs for the ps4 compared to the ps3 is laughably small in comparison. Slightly tweaked "off the shelf" products compared to the Cell?

Rumors are ps4 can launch @ $349-$399 and only have a slight loss on BOM (roughly figured out to be $450) compared to the ps3 launching @ $599 and having a build cost of over $800.

Xbox build cost is probably higher thanks to edram and kinect, but if they want a kinect which each box they had to take that hit.

Likewise Nintendo's Wii U is expensive thanks to the tablet controller (it costs $150 to get a replacement...) and the 3DS due to the 3d without glasses magic.

Remove kinect, remove the tablet, have a DS screen and the prices of Xbone, Wii U and 3ds would be much cheaper, if they wanted it to be.

Sony focused on more ram to "future" proof their machine a bit more.
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Old 2013-06-02, 06:24   Link #953
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Sony focused on more ram to "future" proof their machine a bit more.
Sony got burned on PS3. That's why I believe Sony would not implement any hardware features that are not absolutely essential. Everything would be optional, as peripherals or attachments. The idea is to make the core PS4 console as cheap as possible, to abandon the over-priced image they had with PS3.
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Old 2013-06-02, 07:33   Link #954
Westlo
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Good news for Sony.



The "eye" is not bundled with the ps4 which means we should be looking @ $349-$400. I believe Sony will take a slight hit in price because they're going to be making that cash back with the ps3. Like the psx and ps2 before it the ps3 should continue to sell for quite a while yet, especially with the ps4 not being backwards compatible and having titles like The Last of Us, Beyond and Gran Turismo 6 to come.
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Old 2013-06-02, 07:44   Link #955
Nightengale
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For the PSEye to be sold separately is kind of a blow towards Microsoft in its own way.

It disincentives 3rd-party developers to really build a real 'motion-experience' game, considering that one of the console would not bundle the motion-control camera alongside. It mildly reduces the potency of Kinect in gaming, given that it's rather clear that the Kinect is the way, way superior hardware compared to Sony's.

Of course it bears a risk to Sony as well if Kinect really manages to catch on and demolishes all competition like how the Wii was, but I highly doubt it given the market's adoption of motion-control gaming. ( or lack of )
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Old 2013-06-02, 07:47   Link #956
Westlo
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I can see Kinect being used for shit like "Time out!" for NBA Elite (lol), basically stuff that means nothing.
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Old 2013-06-02, 07:57   Link #957
Nightengale
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
I can see Kinect being used for shit like "Time out!" for NBA Elite (lol), basically stuff that means nothing.
When Mass Effect 3 touted their Kinect voice-recognition implementation, I realised that was what our the majority of the 'motion-control' experience is going to look like for the next 3-4 years at least.

Voice-commands and random wagglings here & there.

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Old 2013-06-02, 08:05   Link #958
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
When Mass Effect 3 touted their Kinect voice-recognition implementation, I realised that was what our the majority of the 'motion-control' experience is going to look like for the next 3-4 years at least.

Voice-commands and random wagglings here & there.

Fundamentally, when we talk about game controls, it is all about ease of use, convenience, and precision.

Ease of use and convenience is what is needed for someone to try the new controls. But precision is what makes or breaks the final decision to keep using it.

Wii promoted the idea of using your whole body to play tennis, but in reality people just want to wriggle their wrist a little during play. Motion detection is cool but too inconvenient. And with voice activation, it is generally faster to press a button instead.

Game pads have evolved for many years. There had also been plenty of third party attempts to "improve" them. It is actually pretty hard to find an attractive alternative to the tried and true controller.
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Old 2013-06-02, 15:20   Link #959
Tong
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So uh, PS4 wins since it's been confirmed that it has no limitations regarding games or online features.

What will M$ do now? Change their minds?
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Old 2013-06-02, 15:45   Link #960
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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So uh, PS4 wins since it's been confirmed that it has no limitations regarding games or online features.

What will M$ do now? Change their minds?
It is not up to MS, they would have to get an OK with the people who demanded those additions first.

The Online every 24 hours limit can be removed by a software patch. The Kinect... They better install an off Button or they are in trouble.

Used games limits? That would die off once they realised they aren't earning any money.

One way or another, they can't change quickly. PS4 will have a head start while MS sort themselves out.
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