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Old 2013-06-02, 13:51   Link #161
itachi-san314
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it goes without saying that sakura needed more panel time, but nevertheless she is and has been impressive. she's much younger than kakashi was at the start of the story and she's pretty much a better ninja than he was at that time, meaning very high class jounin. of course a top notch jounin is nothing nowadays when nearly everyone who matters is god-like, but in the scheme of things it's pretty good... that said, i dont mean to imply that her character was written well, just that her involvement in this final fight isn't all that outlandish
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Old 2013-06-02, 14:11   Link #162
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^ By the age Sakura was a genin, Kakashi was already a Jonin and had his own original technique. Not bashing her, just saying what an outlandish, untrue exaggeration that is.
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Old 2013-06-02, 15:02   Link #163
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Kurohane View Post
^ By the age Sakura was a genin, Kakashi was already a Jonin and had his own original technique. Not bashing her, just saying what an outlandish, untrue exaggeration that is.
you obviously didn't read what i wrote correctly... and no it's not untrue, unless you think kakashi of old could take out an army of juubi clones...
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Old 2013-06-02, 16:16   Link #164
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^ No, I know what you said. You said Sakura at her age at the beginning surpassed Kakashi when he was the same age. That's not true. Kakashi was already a Jonin when at the same age as Sakura and lived through a war making him having more experience when she was at the same age. Plus he became a Chuunin 6 years younger than Naruto and the others at their beginning ages.
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Old 2013-06-02, 17:21   Link #165
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Kurohane View Post
^ No, I know what you said. You said Sakura at her age at the beginning surpassed Kakashi when he was the same age. That's not true. Kakashi was already a Jonin when at the same age as Sakura and lived through a war making him having more experience when she was at the same age. Plus he became a Chuunin 6 years younger than Naruto and the others at their beginning ages.
so you think kakashi age 26 was better than sakura as she is now? he had trouble fighting zabuza and haku. sakura was just plowing through mini-juubis... also you're ignoring the theme and pattern of events in the entire series. we all agreed (at least I had hoped, but here we are...) that team 7 has now surpassed their sannin masters. meaning sakura has surpassed tsunade. meaning you think kakashi age 26 was better than hokage tsunade? kakashi was so scared of orochimaru he couldn't even move at that time. you're thinking on this is just flat out wrong
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Old 2013-06-03, 00:43   Link #166
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It seams both Tsunade's and Sakura's seal came from Uzumaki's. It would be pretty cool if we found out what Mito's seal was able to do. Maybe Hasrirama will comment on that after seeing Sakura's seal.

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Old 2013-06-03, 09:09   Link #167
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Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
It seams both Tsunade's and Sakura's seal came from Uzumaki's. It would be pretty cool if we found out what Mito's seal was able to do. Maybe Hasrirama will comment on that after seeing Sakura's seal.

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the uzumaki clan's heritage is one if not the last frontier to cover (orochimaru apparently studied them enough to reverse the death seal)....i was hopeful we would get insight concerning narutos cloak initially from madara as it regards to uzumaki mito, now im waiting to see if either hashirama or tobirama will do it. if something is said it looks like it may actually come from minato since he sorta has it himself....

as for sakuras seal, yeah shodai could say something, or the role could be left for tsunade should she make a return to the battlefield.

plus there is still a fullblooded uzumaki (karin) who could also be used somehow...
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Old 2013-06-04, 09:01   Link #168
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
so you think kakashi age 26 was better than sakura as she is now? he had trouble fighting zabuza and haku. sakura was just plowing through mini-juubis... also you're ignoring the theme and pattern of events in the entire series. we all agreed (at least I had hoped, but here we are...) that team 7 has now surpassed their sannin masters. meaning sakura has surpassed tsunade. meaning you think kakashi age 26 was better than hokage tsunade? kakashi was so scared of orochimaru he couldn't even move at that time. you're thinking on this is just flat out wrong
All this here is pretty valid stuff. One thing that you didn't say that I've been noticing is that every person from team 7 is rated lower than their skill level. Sakrua - Chuunin, obviously well above Jounin level even if she is a Chuunin. Sasuke - Genin, If there is a single Jounin that can even survive a fight against Sasuke at this point I would be amazed. Naruto, - Genin, same as before well above Jounin, obviously Hokage level. Naruto and Sasuke have been shown to be at Hokage level in skill and power. Even if the Sakura is kept as the weakest member of team 7, she could still be at Hokage level, but at the very least there isn't a single Konoha Jounin that can compete with her. So with that being said, the system that rates ninja in these levels does not apply to anyone in team 7.
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Old 2013-06-04, 10:48   Link #169
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
so you think kakashi age 26 was better than sakura as she is now? he had trouble fighting zabuza and haku. sakura was just plowing through mini-juubis... also you're ignoring the theme and pattern of events in the entire series. we all agreed (at least I had hoped, but here we are...) that team 7 has now surpassed their sannin masters. meaning sakura has surpassed tsunade. meaning you think kakashi age 26 was better than hokage tsunade?
Thats precisely the point. WHY sasuke and Naruto have surpassed their Sannin teachers is believable. Because hundreds of chapters were spent showing them methodically growing stronger in training periods and upgrades, in fight after fight after fight.

Sakura "surpassed" the Sannin as you say, in a complete rabbit out of the hat.

It literally took her about 5 panels to jump in power from scrub to above sannin powers. All because Kishi forced it into the story as a way of including her in the final fight.

At no stage in the manga was sakura treated as being a particularly gifted shinobi. Very early on she was touted as being book-smart and having good chakra control. But ofcourse that was a kind of lip-service because it never parlayed into anything tangible to make us believe she could do anything.

Every single mission she was useless. During the chuunin exams when the highlights were the big fights involving Lee/Gaara/Sasuke/Naruto/Neji --- Sakura was fighting ... ino ... in a completely underwhelming fight.

And then now magically shes has surpassed the Sannin.

Its true in the sense of that is what we saw on the page. But that doesnt matter because it makes zero sense and hurts the story big-time. Would make about as much sense as shino suddenly declaring hes going to save everyone, and summoning a 2000 foot tall giant bug that swallows the juubi and ends the fight.

All this hinges on whether she gets out of the way in the next few chapters, or she keeps getting a pivotal role. If she gets out of the way, then it was a momentary suspension of belief. If she continues to play a big role in the fight .. then the whole fight ends up sucking. It could be very likely its just my own perception, but whenever I feel there are big logic gaps in something happening, it tends to really dampen the enjoyment.

The whole point of a story is that it surprises you, yielding entertainment. But that entertainment only comes if those surprises were not violations of the story's own built in rules. If the 'suprise' violates the story's built in rules, then it is no longer a suprise -- it is a logic fail; or a deux ex machina; or simply dumb.

Last edited by Cookie-Monster; 2013-06-04 at 11:05.
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Old 2013-06-04, 12:10   Link #170
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by SoloPanda View Post
All this here is pretty valid stuff. One thing that you didn't say that I've been noticing is that every person from team 7 is rated lower than their skill level.
well that's only reflecting their official titles as far as konoha's test system is concerned. naruto and sasuke only passed as genins. their chuunin exam was interuppted and then neither were back in the village to test again (or in naruto's case it would have been silly for him to pound on genins in a chuunin test since he had special training). and during the timeskip sakura became chuunin, but so much has happened lately, she hasn't had time or need to test or become jounin (however they approve it). either way, all 3 are hokage level in terms of actual skill at this point and would have no issues passing whatever requirements are needed to become jounin rank

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Originally Posted by Cookie-Monster View Post
It literally took her about 5 panels to jump in power from scrub to above sannin powers. All because Kishi forced it into the story as a way of including her in the final fight.
she wasn't a scrub. sasori was the best ninja ever to come out of the sand village and he acknowledged her as gifted and skilled. i agree her story thereafter could have been written better, but i wouldn't call her latest reveal a "rabbit out of a hat". the sasori fight was a good enough precursor to justify her being so good. she has been the apprentice of the hokage after all. she's just hardly ever in the limelight of this story and it's usually as a 'typical useless' girl, but that goes for all girls in this story unfortunately...
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Old 2013-06-04, 13:01   Link #171
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I think the female side characters are better presented/written than the two main females in Naruto. I have a hard time remembering Temari being useless or for that matter Tenten. Mizukage is also another decent character.

Sakura and Hinata's character is ruined because of their obsession over their respective love interests. Kishi made a colossal mess of their characterization by making them effectively one-word characters - "Sasuke-kun" "Naruto-kun"(its a bit hyperbolic, but true nonetheless). He doesn't know how to write a romantic angle between two characters without showing one of them to be utterly obsessive - take Obito for example. Its like they don't have a life other than worrying, fangirling, fanboying their crushes.
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Old 2013-06-04, 13:20   Link #172
SoloPanda
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
she wasn't a scrub. sasori was the best ninja ever to come out of the sand village and he acknowledged her as gifted and skilled. i agree her story thereafter could have been written better, but i wouldn't call her latest reveal a "rabbit out of a hat". the sasori fight was a good enough precursor to justify her being so good. she has been the apprentice of the hokage after all. she's just hardly ever in the limelight of this story and it's usually as a 'typical useless' girl, but that goes for all girls in this story unfortunately...
Also in 246 Kakashi predicted that Sakura would surpass Tsunade. While Chiyo compared her to tsunade several times. also she was able to cure poisons that none of the sand medics were able to come close too without the poison, even sasori.

So she is deffinately not just book smart with a little chakara control. She is extremely genius with an enormous amount of chakra control and to top it of she probably has some hidden trick besides the super strength. I wouldn't be too surprised if she pulls out her own adaptation of her masters jutsu, just like sasuke and naruto did. Ofcourse when she does it everyone will call it a deus ex machina, even though most people really use that wrong...

So basically it seems that many are just angry that sakura is getting in the way of their happy BL manga with naruto and sasuke.
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Old 2013-06-04, 16:36   Link #173
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^exactly...sasori killed the legendary third kazekage. his most lethal weapon is his poison and with only minute samples extracted from kankaro, sakura was able to develop an antidote, with sasori himself admitting even he would require a list of ingredients. chiyo also gave the proclamation that sakura would surpass tsunade.

agreed, she was prescribed to the role of quintessential naruto manga female, but during that time she was working on a jutsu that only a sannin, and sannin's grandmother has completed.

so yeah, she wasnt/isnt a scrub. in fact she has been close to sannin level capability (tsunade's at least) for some time now
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Old 2013-06-04, 18:33   Link #174
Jellal
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Sakura is basically the mirror image of Lee...
Not emphasized in unique/flashy jutsu. Only superior herculean strength/taijutsu

Lee:
Gates & taijutsu moveset

Sakura:
Taught:Med Nin Skills
Tsunades Seal
Her taijutsu = Hulk Smash (Literally chakra control in fists)

If anything, I predict her having a new summon. She hasn't displayed any unique contracts yet.
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Old 2013-06-04, 19:59   Link #175
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the only only thing i eoulf sdk is where is rock lee, sai and tenten

and why didn't still they save yamato


unlike naruto and sasuke, sakura DOES NOT have a unique trait or ability that seperates her from tsunade
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Old 2013-06-04, 20:14   Link #176
SoloPanda
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the only only thing i eoulf sdk is where is rock lee, sai and tenten

and why didn't still they save yamato


unlike naruto and sasuke, sakura DOES NOT have a unique trait or ability that seperates her from tsunade
in chapter 246 Kakashi stated "unlike tsunade-sama she was originally a genjutsu user, she may surpass tsunade sama"

I think this will end up being the trait...
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Old 2013-06-05, 00:03   Link #177
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Chapter 633 discussion thread has been opened. Please move all relevant discussions to the new thread.
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Old 2013-06-07, 16:28   Link #178
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Originally Posted by Cookie-Monster View Post

Its true in the sense of that is what we saw on the page. But that doesnt matter because it makes zero sense and hurts the story big-time. Would make about as much sense as shino suddenly declaring hes going to save everyone, and summoning a 2000 foot tall giant bug that swallows the juubi and ends the fight.

.
I feel like Kishimoto read your post lol. It wasn't a 2000 foot bug but... Yeah lol. Everyone gets a power jump. It's like he's doing a half assed response to people complaining that the manga is only about Naruto. "Oh okay fine, I'll have everyone fight.... Except Kakashi. he's still going to show how badass the enemy is, lose and get saved in the nick of time."
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