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Old 2013-06-07, 23:07   Link #7561
The American Average
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One thing i never got with the "Lacus assassination" plot shtick is how did the super elite, fully equipped with weapons and MS not kill lacus? A whole elite unit seriously lost to just Marrue and Waltfield. that is just funny. with losing in MS battle makes sense its kira god of the MS.

with human vs human? waltfield a guy with one eye and a fake arm, then Marrue a bridge captain with at least basic combat training could have more skill but doubtful, and with doesn't kill Kira. how could he Elite unit lose? i just don't get it and even more so Waltfield and Marrue were also trying to move lacus, kira, and a bunch of little kids. seriously did durandal send his B Team or something >=(

edit not only Waltfield and Marrue only had pistols for the most part
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Old 2013-06-07, 23:16   Link #7562
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Originally Posted by The American Average View Post
One thing i never got with the "Lacus assassination" plot shtick is how did the super elite, fully equipped with weapons and MS not kill lacus? A whole elite unit seriously lost to just Marrue and Waltfield. that is just funny. with losing in MS battle makes sense its kira god of the MS.

with human vs human? waltfield a guy with one eye and a fake arm, then Marrue a bridge captain with at least basic combat training could have more skill but doubtful, and with doesn't kill Kira. how could he Elite unit lose? i just don't get it and even more so Waltfield and Marrue were also trying to move lacus, kira, and a bunch of little kids. seriously did durandal send his B Team or something >=(

edit not only Waltfield and Marrue only had pistols for the most part
It seems that Murrue out-coordinated the coordinator elites, lol.
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Old 2013-06-07, 23:18   Link #7563
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Originally Posted by The American Average View Post
One thing i never got with the "Lacus assassination" plot shtick is how did the super elite, fully equipped with weapons and MS not kill lacus? A whole elite unit seriously lost to just Marrue and Waltfield. that is just funny. with losing in MS battle makes sense its kira god of the MS.

with human vs human? waltfield a guy with one eye and a fake arm, then Marrue a bridge captain with at least basic combat training could have more skill but doubtful, and with doesn't kill Kira. how could he Elite unit lose? i just don't get it and even more so Waltfield and Marrue were also trying to move lacus, kira, and a bunch of little kids. seriously did durandal send his B Team or something >=(

edit not only Waltfield and Marrue only had pistols for the most part
Because there a bunch of dumb-assess. There were like 20 give or take and only like 6 got in there, what? They suck at their job.
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Old 2013-06-07, 23:18   Link #7564
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If you can provide official casualty numbers from an official japanese source then I will believe you. Right now I find it hard to realistically comprehend how 7/8 of the people he disable further survive on a chaotic battlefield
The anime is the source. Athrun Stella Auel Sting Neo Shinn and Rey were all disabled by Kira and all came out with minor injuries at best. Vs Heine, who died. That's 7 out of 8 people surviving.

There's also the guys he disabled in episode 23. Neo says that ALL of them were unhurt and back in fighting shape right away.

There's also the Ash guys. He disabled all of them and all of them were well enough to self destruct a minute later.

The idea that everyone Kira disables still dies is totally unfounded. The anime's (both of them) show countless people he disabled all fine. While the only one shown to die anyway (that didn't kamikaze or self destruct) was Heine.
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Old 2013-06-07, 23:18   Link #7565
The American Average
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Because there a bunch of dumb-assess. There were like 20 give or take and only like 6 got in there, what? They suck at their job.
Like i said B team material
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Old 2013-06-07, 23:22   Link #7566
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You're downplaying Kira's failures and mistakes in Destiny over and over again. Kira had no justification for when he attacked Minerva, the Battle of ORB, and the such. He was basically trying to force people to live a life he wanted, he didn't care if anyone liked the Destiny plan or not at the end. All he cared about is that he didn't like it so he was going to kill Durandal and those that agreed with the Destiny Plan could just suck it up as he didn't care what they wanted.

Yes there was, they could have opened global communications and made it know that they were joining the Alliance and that they desired to liberate ORB from Yuna and help them get back Djibril. Cagalli and co. didn't do that, they went in guns ablazing as taking a few seconds to talk was apparently too long for them as they wanted to get in and shoot people right away.

That's where you're wrong. It WASN'T a side effect it was a DIRECT effect. Cagalli and Kira showing up aiding ORB and fighting ZAFT/Feds allowed Djibril to escape. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. It's their fault as they, once again, jumped into a situation at the spur of the moment without getting all their facts straight first.

Doubtful, if they entered Global Communications and stated their intent to aid Feds/ZAFT in liberating ORB from it current corrupt leader and helping them get Djibril instead of randomly appearing and shooting at them than things would have been far different.

Denying it doesn't change a thing, Kira had a god complex. Durandal at least didn't pretend that he wasn't sinful nor did he sugarcoat that he would kill if it meant his Destiny Plan, thus ending war, would succeed. Kira opposing Durandal didn't make him right no matter how much Kira tried to make it seem like it, that's the difference between them. Durandal was straight to the point with his desires and didn't live in a fantasy world like Kira who was doing the exact same thing as Durandal - Kira was forcing people not to go with the Destiny Plan just like Durandal wanted to force people to go with it.

How rational was that? He THREATENS them when they're in a middle of a fight, thus adrenaline is going, and tries to tell them that his word is the one they must follow, God Complex, or he'll attack them both. Even Athrun saw how completely and utterly dumb that was as Kira tried to push that he was right and they were wrong for not listening to him.

ORB would have been far less damaged without all the extra fighting as before Cagalli and co. showed up ORB was being demolished and was on the brink of surrender. Had they surrendered than the damage would have ceased almost entirely as ZAFT/Feds didn't go there to level ORB anyway but to go after Djibril. Not fighting ORB would have made their real mission far easier.

Transports ships aren't known to be fast and Djibril did have allies waiting for him in space. No way he would retreat and just float around by himself.

Please, now you're being very sad here. Police and co. often ask the public to help them out with tips and the such. Kira had one of the most powerful Gundams around and had the means to go after Djibril as ORB didn't need him there for it to rebuild. Kira didn't, he was far too busy worrying about other things and turned a blind eye to Djibril thus leaving it only up to the Alliance to take care of Djibril as Kira didn't feel he should waste his time actually doing good by stopping Djibril. Course it's to be expected considering that Kira didn't care at all that his interference allowed Djibril to escape in the first place.

Durandal ordered that. Talia and the rest of the Alliance at the Battle of ORB didn't know a thing about the Lacus assassination attempt or that Meer was a fake at that point.

Kira's hands were stained the most, only Djibril and Durandal have more blood on their hands. You downplay Kira's dumb moves left and right and try to justify that since everyone has bloodied hands that Kira isn't special which isn't the case at all. Kira tries to present himself the moral person that's always right and never once apologizes or takes responsibility for all the BS he pulled in Destiny or how hypocritical it was of him to want to kill Durandal as Kira wanted to force people not to accept the Destiny Plan whether they liked it or not. At least Durandal didn't pretend he was "good" like Kira did, he merely present that the Destiny Plan was the best way to stop War and that's why he wanted it established and would do anything to see it through.

Last edited by Daniel E.; 2013-06-08 at 01:08.
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Old 2013-06-07, 23:26   Link #7567
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Like i said B team material
More like Z-team or drop-outs. Just like the grunts in 80s action movies who can never shot or land a hit on the super-slow Chuck Norris .
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Old 2013-06-07, 23:28   Link #7568
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More like Z-team or drop-outs. Just like the grunts in 80s action movies who can never shot or land a hit on the super-slow Chuck Norris .
Dont forget Stormtroopers XD
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Old 2013-06-07, 23:41   Link #7569
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Who said/what proof is there SF disabled them? For all we know they flew right past (dont forget, Kira had Lacus in tow at the time, I hardly doubt he would leave her alone to take out a fleet)
The Strike Freedom disabled them in phase 39. Remember that the Eternal was in space over Orb, ready to drop the mobile suits.
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Old 2013-06-07, 23:44   Link #7570
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The Strike Freedom disabled them in phase 39. Remember that the Eternal was in space over Orb ready to drop the mobile suits.
But werent those the ships that were sent after the Eternal by ZAFT HQ?

And I remember the transport ships were not the Nazca class ones (dont fully remember though, all I know was that there were orbital ships dropping in the MS drop pods)
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Old 2013-06-07, 23:47   Link #7571
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They didn't make it to the drop off point though, as Kira doesn't arrive for the battle until episode 42, almost a day later, although they apparantly doubled back to factory to get the DOMs.

Either way that was a special fleet ordered to find and destroy the Eternal, that had chased them from the factory and colony. It wasn't the regular patrol fleet that area.
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Old 2013-06-08, 00:03   Link #7572
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But werent those the ships that were sent after the Eternal by ZAFT HQ?
They were, and they chased the Eternal right over Orb.
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And I remember the transport ships were not the Nazca class ones (dont fully remember though, all I know was that there were orbital ships dropping in the MS drop pods)
I don't remember seeing that. The only ones I remember using a drop pod were the Dom Troopers.
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They didn't make it to the drop off point though, as Kira doesn't arrive for the battle until episode 42, almost a day later, although they apparantly doubled back to factory to get the DOMs.

Either way that was a special fleet ordered to find and destroy the Eternal, that had chased them from the factory and colony. It wasn't the regular patrol fleet that area.
There wouldn't be any regular patrol fleet close to Earth because it would raise the attention of the lunar forces, so those ships chasing the Eternal were the closest ZAFT forces to Orb in space at that time.
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Old 2013-06-08, 02:44   Link #7573
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The anime is the source. Athrun Stella Auel Sting Neo Shinn and Rey were all disabled by Kira and all came out with minor injuries at best. Vs Heine, who died. That's 7 out of 8 people surviving.

There's also the guys he disabled in episode 23. Neo says that ALL of them were unhurt and back in fighting shape right away.

There's also the Ash guys. He disabled all of them and all of them were well enough to self destruct a minute later.

The idea that everyone Kira disables still dies is totally unfounded. The anime's (both of them) show countless people he disabled all fine. While the only one shown to die anyway (that didn't kamikaze or self destruct) was Heine.
The main subject Im talking about are all those un-named people in space during those chaotic space battles, not the named characters as most usually survive unless the plot dictates otherwise
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Old 2013-06-08, 14:44   Link #7574
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The main subject Im talking about are all those un-named people in space during those chaotic space battles, not the named characters as most usually survive unless the plot dictates otherwise
But again even the faceless characters were all said to be fine despite being shot out of the sky and falling into the sea in 23. And we are frequently shown the guys Kira's disabled simply staring in shock in their cockpits after they've been taken out, again, all fine. And that's even in space.

There's simply no indication that the people he disables die anyway ever (except again Heine the only exception and only done for plot convience so Athrun and Minerva would be hostile towards them), even if it would make sense in logical situation. Saying it should happen even though we never seen it and told otherwise is like saying the Zaft assassins weren't coordinators because they were so incompetent, even though as mentioned the guy's official profile says that he is indeed the leader of Zaft special ops coordinator team.
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Old 2013-06-08, 17:23   Link #7575
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It just shows that elite soldiers aren't elite when they're faced against plot armor. They were taken it rather easily even before Kira came in and disabled their mecha. Though Kira really should have known that the attackers would have committed suicide over being captured for information even if Kira would have let them go or not.

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Behold Dearka's shirt in hd remaster
Bringing this back to the front as it got buried unintentionally.
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Old 2013-06-08, 21:29   Link #7576
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Does anyone else have trouble playing back the episodes on YouTube? It always locks up for me.
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Old 2013-06-08, 21:42   Link #7577
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Does anyone else have trouble playing back the episodes on YouTube? It always locks up for me.
You talking about where you pause it for to long and it stops? Or maybe your computer isnt good enough to run it smoothly?
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Old 2013-06-08, 23:01   Link #7578
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One thing I found funny in the last episodes of destiny is that Meryin asks why her big sister fighting despite Meyrin being a soldier too.
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Old 2013-06-08, 23:21   Link #7579
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But again even the faceless characters were all said to be fine despite being shot out of the sky and falling into the sea in 23. And we are frequently shown the guys Kira's disabled simply staring in shock in their cockpits after they've been taken out, again, all fine. And that's even in space.

There's simply no indication that the people he disables die anyway ever (except again Heine the only exception and only done for plot convience so Athrun and Minerva would be hostile towards them), even if it would make sense in logical situation. Saying it should happen even though we never seen it and told otherwise is like saying the Zaft assassins weren't coordinators because they were so incompetent, even though as mentioned the guy's official profile says that he is indeed the leader of Zaft special ops coordinator team.
We DO know they were Coordinators though, competent or not, its just the plot was stacked against them (ok maybe they could have killed the Desert Tiger, as he did not contribute much at all afterwards, asides from defending the Eternal in Phase 39?). Also while pilots were shown to be ok after the disabling, what then? They're floating around in the middle of a giant space firefight (or potentially dropping out of the sky or falling into the sea)

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But werent those the ships that were sent after the Eternal by ZAFT HQ?

And I remember the transport ships were not the Nazca class ones (dont fully remember though, all I know was that there were orbital ships dropping in the MS drop pods)
Ok I watched the latest episode which was dug up (thanks), and it seems the transport ships are those circular ones which are able to hold 4 drop pods with 1-4 MS each. They dont look armed so I guess they and whatever escort the had left after dropping whatever troops (if any), probably out of fear of the AF space fleet, which was still going strong at that point
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Old 2013-06-09, 02:46   Link #7580
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Also while pilots were shown to be ok after the disabling, what then? They're floating around in the middle of a giant space firefight (or potentially dropping out of the sky or falling into the sea)
Well, the Savior suffered one of the worst attacks Kira ever did to a mobile suit while still keeping the pilot alive, and Athrun suffered no physical injury (not to mention the Gouf incident).

I think it's safe to say that CE mobile suits have good structural protection as far as the cockpit is concerned as long as it doesn't suffer a direct attack.

Also, keep in mind that Kira systematically disables pretty much everyone in the area other than those with additional weapons, like the Gaia.
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