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Old 2013-06-11, 06:08   Link #28801
TinyRedLeaf
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Turkey's riot police storm Taksim Square
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Istanbul (June 11, Tue): Turkish riot police have moved into Istanbul's Taksim Square, which has been occupied by anti-government protesters for close to two weeks.

Officers fired tear gas and rubber bullets, leading many protesters to flee the square into adjoining Gezi Park. Some activists hurled fireworks, fire bombs and stones at police.

The unrest began after a crackdown on a protest over Gezi Park's redevelopment.

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the move had been hijacked to cause vandalism.

In a speech in Parliament that was frequently interrupted by applause, he asked: "What did the protesters expect? That we would kneel down before them?"

And he appeared to contradict Istanbul Governor Huseyin Avni Mutlu, who had earlier said the police had no intention of breaking up the protest in Gezi Park.

Mr Erdogan said: "I invite them to withdraw from the park and I ask this as Prime Minister. I am sorry, but Gezi Park is for taking promenades, not for occupation."

BBC
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Old 2013-06-11, 08:32   Link #28802
ArchmageXin
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
But Turkey is an U.S Ally
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Old 2013-06-11, 08:55   Link #28803
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
But Turkey is an U.S Ally
Egypt was one as well
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Old 2013-06-11, 10:50   Link #28804
solomon
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
The sad thing is that this scandal isn't even creating real feedback. It seems that the erosion of privacy rights is deemed irrelevant by the vast majority of people, and even internet-savvy users like those of this board feel bored about it.

Scary.
Frankly, this is true. Going by the media response, there is a "debate" sure. However, there is nothing like a unanimous moral outrage being vented by the public.

Admittedly it's sort of a like a Japanese "shigata ga nai" attitude by a lot of people, but what it really comes down to it, is the ghosts of 9/11, especially with the recent Boston Bombings. People are willing to give more of a wide bearth to security and military concerns out of the worry of "being safe".
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Old 2013-06-11, 14:18   Link #28805
synaesthetic
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It's mostly because a lot of us are more worried about getting enough to eat and paying our bills. Hierarchy of needs; it's hard to care much about what the government is listening in on when you're worried about putting food on the table next week.
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Old 2013-06-11, 14:55   Link #28806
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
But Turkey is an U.S Ally
Turkey is a secular nation. Consider the number of people in America insisting (incorrectly) that it is founded on Christian principles, it might come a day when the US would invade Turkey for not being religious enough.
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Old 2013-06-11, 16:15   Link #28807
Fipskuul
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Turkey is a secular nation. Consider the number of people in America insisting (incorrectly) that it is founded on Christian principles, it might come a day when the US would invade Turkey for not being religious enough.
That is not anymore true, in practice.

Erdogan (and his governors) are trying to integrate Islam into every single aspect of life.

They pretty much banned the selling of alcoholic beverages in most Anatolian region, by not renewing the licenses of placing selling them. Right now, you need to go to a hotel to drink alcohol, and not all of them carry anymore. The state airlines banned the servicing of alcoholic beverages on the planes for most of the flights, based on the reason "people don't ask for it, and carrying it costs a lot".

They have kinda moral-cops, walking around in parks, warning teens, cannot hold hand, cannot kiss in public, etc.

Oh, and they don't give a damn about the people anymore, especially the kids. They have changed the education system many times over the last decade. And have recently started turning all the schools into Islamic education schools that were originally established to raise imams.

In any case, Turkey is going to explode sooner or later. Especially now that the oppressed people know they are not alone and they can raise their voices to let everyone hear.
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Old 2013-06-11, 16:59   Link #28808
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
That is not anymore true, in practice.

Erdogan (and his governors) are trying to integrate Islam into every single aspect of life.

They pretty much banned the selling of alcoholic beverages in most Anatolian region, by not renewing the licenses of placing selling them. Right now, you need to go to a hotel to drink alcohol, and not all of them carry anymore. The state airlines banned the servicing of alcoholic beverages on the planes for most of the flights, based on the reason "people don't ask for it, and carrying it costs a lot".

They have kinda moral-cops, walking around in parks, warning teens, cannot hold hand, cannot kiss in public, etc.

Oh, and they don't give a damn about the people anymore, especially the kids. They have changed the education system many times over the last decade. And have recently started turning all the schools into Islamic education schools that were originally established to raise imams.

In any case, Turkey is going to explode sooner or later. Especially now that the oppressed people know they are not alone and they can raise their voices to let everyone hear.
Ouch!

And yet in every broadcast I watch about football derbies, they show Galatasaray and Fenerbahce fans drinking pints of beer like a boss. That government is just asking for trouble with such measures pushed by force against people who know how to live quite an European way of life.
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Old 2013-06-11, 18:33   Link #28809
Fipskuul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Ouch!

And yet in every broadcast I watch about football derbies, they show Galatasaray and Fenerbahce fans drinking pints of beer like a boss. That government is just asking for trouble with such measures pushed by force against people who know how to live quite an European way of life.
They are not like the British fans, so they don't really drink that much. But, to some extent, those people (the hardcore fan bases of the three biggest soccer clubs) are the first to come and attend these recent events/gatherings.

The Government recently passed a legislation that goes beyond that (the president approved it yesterday, I believe). You cannot drink anymore in public places (like parks, events, etc), if you want to drink in restaurants, you need to drink it inside. You cannot buy alcoholic beverage after 10pm anymore. And many more restrictions...

The stupid part in all of these is that Turkish people don't really drink much, maybe less than 10 percent drink regularly (and I mean it not in an alcoholic kinda way, like on weekends, a few beers a week). And, maybe only 10 percent of the whole population supports the ban (they are the radical Islamist, so they will support any kind of ban that impose Islamic lifestyle on everyone, Muslim or not, like not sending girls to schools).
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Old 2013-06-11, 19:08   Link #28810
ganbaru
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Preview: Iran election offers choice, but little change
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...95A18520130611

Insight: Ahead of vote, 'kidnapped' Iran reformists imprisoned at home
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...95A0OH20130611
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Old 2013-06-11, 20:18   Link #28811
Ridwan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Erdogan really needs to go, but as long as CHP continues clinging into Kemalism they're really not a better alternative to AKP. Seeing how leading figures in AKP have been drawing distance from Erdogan, I hope they can make his fall as harmless to Turkey as possible. AKP is religious and socially conservative, but at least they're grass root democratic, while CHP has been ironically the Turkish GOP. It is not enough, since what Turkey really needs is a third alternative that can reconcile both sides of the culture war, or at least tame their conflict to a degree. Wonder how that can be achieved though, since Kemal had executed the urban ulema class 80 years ago, leaving crude, rural Anatolian Islam that has come to bite everyone in the ass. AKP is the only possible way to revive it, but only if she goes down the right path.
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Old 2013-06-11, 22:36   Link #28812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
I agree with you.

However, you will notice that at least a sizable number of the common American citizens -- to be distinguished from the self-important, hypocritical scums in Washington -- are rightly outraged.
Indeed, this moment may provide some clarity. Both parties are united in labeling Mr. Snowden a traitor. Now this might or may not be true, but the eagerness of them all and such to pass these judgements while not addressing the issue of blatant lies, shows that the traitors are very much right in front of us.
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Old 2013-06-11, 22:40   Link #28813
Sumeragi
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My faith in humanity nosedives every time people completely miss the point and go about "blatant lies". I guess this era of self-centered ignorance is to blame.
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Old 2013-06-11, 22:43   Link #28814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
My faith in humanity nosedives every time people completely miss the point and go about "blatant lies". I guess this era of self-centered ignorance is to blame.
I agree. It's the lack of transparency or will to elucidate on one's points, and the lack of decency to confront points directly through passive aggressive implications that while is pursuing said path of absolute truth that dominates political debate of such time, caused by said self centered ignorance.

Though to blame it exclusively on this particular era, would be short sighted.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2013-06-11 at 22:53.
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Old 2013-06-11, 23:08   Link #28815
Skane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
I agree. It's the lack of transparency or will to elucidate on one's points, and the lack of decency to confront points directly through passive aggressive implications that while is pursuing said path of absolute truth that dominates political debate of such time, caused by said self centered ignorance.

Though to blame it exclusively on this particular era, would be short sighted.
Wish I could rep you.

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Old 2013-06-11, 23:25   Link #28816
risingstar3110
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Guys can we stop talking about this topic?

There is too much sense in this page, that anymore will makes everything else i read seems stupid...
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Old 2013-06-11, 23:35   Link #28817
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
There is too much sense in this page
Now I know my faith is being chipped away.
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Old 2013-06-11, 23:59   Link #28818
Archon_Wing
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Now I know my faith is being chipped away.
I don't understand your concern. Your faith gets chipped away at so many common instances as simple as the ones this thread.

Either it's by fractional amounts, which means it's too tiny to matter, or it's negative which means you can hit the despair button.

In any case, the abyss is fun to stare at.

-Your local cynic.
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Old 2013-06-12, 02:13   Link #28819
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Guys can we stop talking about this topic?

There is too much sense in this page, that anymore will makes everything else i read seems stupid...
I don't see anything wrong with that. Everyone is stupid in one way or another.
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Old 2013-06-12, 02:21   Link #28820
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
-Your local cynic.
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I'm the Cynic of Animesuki
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