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Old 2013-06-11, 02:56   Link #421
Benigmatica
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Just finished watching Ep. 12 today... It's glorious, but I think P.A.Works should make an OVA series to close this series out!
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Old 2013-06-11, 14:21   Link #422
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by Dawnstorm View Post
I've always assumed that the difference between Izumiko and the Himegami is that the former is still human, while tha later isn't. I thought that the moment with Masumi was a pivotal point: will she abandon her humanity or not?
I don't know... maybe you're right, but that's not how it came across to me. The way I see it, her humanity, or that of the himegami, was never an issue. I mean, if the himegami had abandoned her humanity for the spiritual realm, and didn't care about humans then she wouldn't have traveled back in time twice, just to save humankind from herself. Also, while we in the end we barely learned anything about the himegami, it seems to me that the first time she destroyed humankind might have been kind of an accident, much like how Izumiko keeps killing electronic devices, or turned Takayanagi into a dog without being aware of what she'd done. Something like that, but on much a larger scale. (For what it's worth, though, at this point I really wonder HOW it happened. From what the characters say, I don't get the impression that she killed every human or anything like that... perhaps "ruin" would be a better word to use?)

In episode 2 Yukimasa said that the true nature of Izumiko's kind is running away (which is perhaps why Izumiko is so timid, aside of having had an incredibly sheltered childhood), because they feel so threatened since everyone wants them for their power. We see this throughout episode 2, and it's echoed when Izumiko "awakens" - she accuses Takayanagi of trying to use and control her (which he did), and then when she realizes she's just revealed herself, she panics that now people will want to capture and use her. And then when she's in her "safe place" on the spiritual plane of existence, she thinks it's better to stay there where nobody can hurt her and she can't hurt anyone either - that is, until Miyuki and Wamiya show up. To me it seems that what was at stake in this episode was not becoming the himegami (since she pretty much is the himegami, all she needs to do is avoid the same fate) but Izumiko's continued existence in the human world.

(By the way, note how Wamiya is not particularly concerned about Izumiko potentially staying in the spirit world. He's like "Whatever, I can wait. " XD So considerate.)

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My hunch is very hazy - but I tend to see the division along those lines. Izumiko coming into her powers =/= Izumiko becoming the himegami; it's a no more than a prerequisit. Her reaction to it is what matters: If she takes responsibility, her powers are her own; if she doesn't, her powers become "divine", partly her own - but she'll lose herself in other people's "worship".
Aha, I think I misunderstood you earlier. But I don't know. So far we haven't seen anyone actually worshipping the himegami, and both Yukimasa's explanation to Miyuki in ep 2 and Izumiko's reaction in ep 11-12 were more along the lines of people just wanting her for her power (like Takayanagi did) and her being afraid of that.

In any case, it would've been nice if we learned more about... well, a lot of things.

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-06-11 at 14:34.
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Old 2013-06-11, 15:53   Link #423
Dawnstorm
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But I don't know. So far we haven't seen anyone actually worshipping the himegami, and both Yukimasa's explanation to Miyuki in ep 2 and Izumiko's reaction in ep 11-12 were more along the lines of people just wanting her for her power (like Takayanagi did) and her being afraid of that.
Well, there's a reason I put "worship" in quotationmarks. I'm a cynic and an atheist; to me, very often, there is little practical difference between worshipping a god and wanting to benefit from his/her power. (Other benefits that come from worship are belonging to a community, or aligning yourself with an abstraction you like. But very often it's about hoping for favours.)

The way Miyuki's father (whose name I forget) treats the himegami shows the ambiguity: there's a fine line between using a mortal and worshipping a god, sometimes. For Izumiko, that means - with a power like hers - there's no escape: even if she abandons her humanity, people who remember will be after her.

As it is, I interpreted the final scene with the respective parents as: well, done. Danger banished. Now, to our original plan... the World Heritage Program. (Which may or may not have been the problem in the first place.)

Again, I'm talking without much to go on, and I'm really only voicing a hunch. And this is certainly true:

Quote:
In any case, it would've been nice if we learned more about... well, a lot of things.
What stands out most about this show is, sadly, wasted potential. It looks so pretty, and the music's so nice, too. The story seems interesting, too. It just somehow doesn't come across as well as it could be.

Last edited by Dawnstorm; 2013-06-12 at 12:27.
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Old 2013-06-11, 19:13   Link #424
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A great watch.
Too bad it seemed so many dropped it during the 1st 3 episodes.

I feel this is the best anime this season that people aren't watching.
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Old 2013-06-11, 22:18   Link #425
Guardian Enzo
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At least it's looking as if RDG may not be a SSY-level disaster commercially - it's still going to be a loss, but the pre-sales at least look like a couple thousand.
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Old 2013-06-12, 00:08   Link #426
HandofFate
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Takayanagi being turned into that dog reinforces the theory that Wamiya is actually Takayanagi from the previous timeline.

Only that time, he was turned into a bird instead of a dog, and humanity was destroyed. And he remained on the spiritual plane serving the himegami.

Mirrors his attitude with the present Takayanagi how after being turned into a dog, is much humbled and more on Izumiko's side now and now knows his place.
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Old 2013-06-12, 12:31   Link #427
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A great watch.
Too bad it seemed so many dropped it during the 1st 3 episodes.

I feel this is the best anime this season that people aren't watching.
It took me a while before I can manage to finish 1st ep.

First few eps will be quite boring if you dislike long conversation but it get more interesting when you get to the part where Izumiko attend school in Tokyo.
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Old 2013-06-12, 20:24   Link #428
kuromitsu
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Well, there's a reason I put "worship" in quotationmarks. I'm a cynic and an atheist; to me, very often, there is little practical difference between worshipping a god and wanting to benefit from his/her power. (Other benefits that come from worship are belonging to a community, or aligning yourself with an abstraction you like. But very often it's about hoping for favours.)
Well, obviously people will want her power, that's what Takayanagi was after, and we can only imagine who else may want her for their own reasons. (Even Mayura made it clear that while she's Izumiko's friend, she also wants her as an ally because of her power.) But I still don't think her humanity was involved in this.

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As it is, I interpreted the final scene with the respective parents as: well, done. Danger banished. Now, to our original plan... the World Heritage Program. (Which may or may not have been the problem in the first place.)
The way I interpreted the scene, it was more like "well done, you made it past the first step (Izumiko awakening), now let's just hope that you'll manage to deal with the rest as well." To me, Miyuki's offer/promise and Izumiko's reaction didn't really imply "OK, himegami danger avoided."

It's so frustrating that we have to rely on guessing... :/ I guess the books make it clear, but I don't really understand why they didn't take more liberties with the source material to speed things up to be able to fit at least some explanations into the 12 eps, instead of leaving basically all storylines except Miyuki x Izumiko hanging. Then again, looking at reactions in various places, many people do seem to be focused on Miyuki and Izumiko finally being officially a couple, and not the questions raised and never answered, so...

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What stands out most about this show is, sadly, wasted potential. It looks so pretty, and the music's so nice, too. The story seems interesting, too. It just somehow doesn't come across as well as it could be.
Yes, pretty much. It really reminds me of Juuousei, though that at least managed to fit all of the story into its meager 11 episodes (even if they missed the point). Perhaps that's behind my problem with the show lacking "heart" and being mechanical/business-like. And to be honest I do feel a bit betrayed. I put my trust in the show explaining the main issues, and they let me down. I really, really hate it when this happens! Usually at least we get at least some half-assed explanation.

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At least it's looking as if RDG may not be a SSY-level disaster commercially - it's still going to be a loss, but the pre-sales at least look like a couple thousand.
Well, RDG has more of a typical "anime" feel to it than SSY, plus unlike SSY, RDG came with a built-in fandom from the books. (I was surprised, but there's actually a fandom for RDG out there, apparently the books are pretty popular.) But this just makes me appreciate the producers of SSY even more. Also, it makes me hate the decision to turn the manga version of SSY into that thing even more. With adaptations like this, manga is more suited to exposition and talking heads than anime, so a manga/anime combo is potentially a very nice solution. Perhaps the RDG manga will eventually fill in the holes left by the anime. (If it doesn't get cancelled.) The SSY manga could've done that, too... argh. -_-
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Old 2013-06-12, 22:40   Link #429
Kaoru Chujo
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RDG is definitely in competition for my favorite show of this season (along with Suisei no Gargantia and Dansai Bunri no Crime Edge). And I found the first episode quite engaging -- like just about every episode since.

I don't need the OVA episode I expect is coming, since I'm happy with my fairly simplistic understanding of what's going on: Wamiya is a local god, Takayanagi a sorcerer; Masami is both the third twin and part of a god, and now the others know that, too -- but he is still the third twin; Izumiko has discovered her power, but as Miyuki said, she is not the kind of person who will destroy the world with it (at least as long as she feels protected and respected by Miyuki); Izumiko is the Himegami, but she is this world's Himegami, not the one who destroyed two worlds before. The Izumiko layer of her personality is likely to prevent things going that far.

The final scene of Izumiko and Miyuki together was a good ending, for me, coming down from the climax to a properly relaxed conclusion. Their words and actions showed that they are now a couple, with him falling asleep against her. She now realizes that she has this power, but she also knows she is just a normal girl, in Miyuki's eyes. He was resting from having expended every ounce of his effort to protect her, and his success in that means that his father can never again put him down for not doing his job.

Now, I don't consider this show any kind of masterpiece. It could have been more focused. But I enjoyed every episode.
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Old 2013-06-12, 23:04   Link #430
HandofFate
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Kind of wish this was a 2-cour series. Wouldn't mind a bit more character content, if there wasn't enough from the books, I would welcome some fillers of standard spiritual encounters to fill some stuff in. There's a whole range of material to bounce stuff like that from.
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Old 2013-06-13, 04:00   Link #431
kuromitsu
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>Kaoru Chujo

Yes, this is (I presume) the bare bones of the story, and I agree that this came across. But there are many important details that are missing, that would put the whole thing into context (and which are loads more interesting, at least to me). Normally I'm the first person who says "don't think, feel!" and "don't sweat the small stuff!" but there's a limit to everything...
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Old 2013-06-13, 04:44   Link #432
Guardian Enzo
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Well, RDG has more of a typical "anime" feel to it than SSY, plus unlike SSY, RDG came with a built-in fandom from the books. (I was surprised, but there's actually a fandom for RDG out there, apparently the books are pretty popular.) But this just makes me appreciate the producers of SSY even more. Also, it makes me hate the decision to turn the manga version of SSY into that thing even more. With adaptations like this, manga is more suited to exposition and talking heads than anime, so a manga/anime combo is potentially a very nice solution. Perhaps the RDG manga will eventually fill in the holes left by the anime. (If it doesn't get cancelled.) The SSY manga could've done that, too... argh. -_-
Are the SSY novels really that much less popular? I was under the impression they were fairly well-known.
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Old 2013-06-13, 05:09   Link #433
kuromitsu
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Are the SSY novels really that much less popular? I was under the impression they were fairly well-known.
SSY is well-known (from what I can see), but it didn't seem to have anything resembling a fandom until the anime, and even then it was just a tiny little one that's pretty much dead by now. It's just not the kind of book that inspires a fandom, really. RDG on the other hand has had a small fandom even before the anime. I looked around and there are fansites and fanworks (pretty much exclusively Miyuki x Izumiko) created before the anime was even announced. And of course the anime made the fandom grow.

So while both SSY and RDG had a built-in audience of people who read the books and were curious of the adaptations, RDG's was a bit different in that many of them were already fans of the source material, and they were more inclined to be emotionally involved with the show, and also more inclined to buy it. Especially since RDG is only one cour so it's less of an investment.

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-06-13 at 07:13.
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Old 2013-06-13, 13:18   Link #434
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To me, Miyuki's offer/promise and Izumiko's reaction didn't really imply "OK, himegami danger avoided."
Two things about that:

1. "Himegami danger avoided" isn't actually my point. It's sort of hard, so let me try with a comparison: You can't outrun a tiger. If you try, the tiger will pounce on your back, and good luck then. You can try to face the tiger, and maybe the tiger will go for a different prey, because he think you might hurt him. For now. The important point is attitude.

2. I'm not sure what you mean by "what Miyuki's offer implies". Miyuki is a single character, with his own perspective. The narrative drive of the story is an entirely different thing. Do you mean (a) what the author implies via Miyuki's actions, or (b) what Miyuki implies with his actions? In any case, my hunch relies on a lot of factors; Miyuki is just one. And because of the romance aspect, there are things in Miyuki's behaviour that aren't all that important to my hunch. I think. Hunches are notoriously hard to describe.

It's all very vague, and I keep guessing, but I'm actually fine with that. My main problem is that it's all mostly an intellectual exercise. For me, it carries very little emotional punch. At the visceral level, I don't much care.

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RDG is definitely in competition for my favorite show of this season (along with Suisei no Gargantia and Dansai Bunri no Crime Edge). And I found the first episode quite engaging -- like just about every episode since.
For me, it's in the good middle field. Like Gargantia, actually. [Crime Edge, on the other hand, is the best anime of the year (I count SSY as a 2012 anime).]
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Old 2013-06-13, 13:41   Link #435
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This anime is good, but the story is stretched.
Takayanagi just never stops with his plans.
He's kinda pathetic, always hiding behind homunculi.
Suzuhara gets influenced rather easily.
Sagara sure has his hands full with watching over her.
Wow! It was about time Izumiko snapped at Takayanagi.
Sure was nice to see that ^^
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Old 2013-06-13, 19:29   Link #436
Guardian Enzo
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RDG is definitely in competition for my favorite show of this season (along with Suisei no Gargantia and Dansai Bunri no Crime Edge). And I found the first episode quite engaging -- like just about every episode since.
Yeah, that'S about where I stand as well, except with Hataraku definitely in that group.
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Old 2013-06-13, 20:18   Link #437
kuromitsu
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1. "Himegami danger avoided" isn't actually my point. It's sort of hard, so let me try with a comparison: You can't outrun a tiger. If you try, the tiger will pounce on your back, and good luck then. You can try to face the tiger, and maybe the tiger will go for a different prey, because he think you might hurt him. For now. The important point is attitude.
I admit I don't quite understand - is the tiger supposed to be the himegami's fate? But anyway, to make it short, what I meant is below:

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Originally Posted by Dawnstorm View Post
2. I'm not sure what you mean by "what Miyuki's offer implies". Miyuki is a single character, with his own perspective. The narrative drive of the story is an entirely different thing. Do you mean (a) what the author implies via Miyuki's actions, or (b) what Miyuki implies with his actions? In any case, my hunch relies on a lot of factors; Miyuki is just one. And because of the romance aspect, there are things in Miyuki's behaviour that aren't all that important to my hunch. I think. Hunches are notoriously hard to describe.
I meant that Miyuki essentially said "don't be afraid, I'm here for you, we'll find a way to avoid ruining humankind and all that bad stuff." And in the end Izumiko essentially says "OK, I really appreciate this and am totally in love with you but won't say it just yet." Basically nobody implies that the future is now 100% safe - of course we know everything is going to be okay because otherwise there was no point, but as far as the characters are concerned this was just the first big step on their journey.

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Originally Posted by Dawnstorm View Post
It's all very vague, and I keep guessing, but I'm actually fine with that. My main problem is that it's all mostly an intellectual exercise. For me, it carries very little emotional punch. At the visceral level, I don't much care.
Yeah... and for me at least it doesn't help that I'm totally not feeling the Miyuki x Izumiko relationship. Like, at all. On an intellectual level, yes, I understand what they feel and how they connect, but my emotional investment is basically zero. I'm about a million times more interested in what's going to happen with the Soudas, how Masumi feels about the whole situation (I guess what he said at Togakushi could be a clue, but big things happened since then), if Manatsu even knows what Mayura is planning, etc. Or even the himegami: what is different about this Izumiko that she has a chance to avoid her fate, how was the world different in the first two timelines, etc...

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-06-14 at 03:48.
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Old 2013-06-14, 16:18   Link #438
Dawnstorm
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I admit I don't quite understand - is the tiger supposed to be the himegami's fate?
Did I really post that? I thought I delted it, before posting. Gah!

You pretty much get the gist of the comparison. It's just that it doesn't really work too well. I'm not surprised you don't quite understand.

Quote:
I meant that Miyuki essentially said "don't be afraid, I'm here for you, we'll find a way to avoid ruining humankind and all that bad stuff." And in the end Izumiko essentially says "OK, I really appreciate this and am totally in love with you but won't say it just yet." Basically nobody implies that the future is now 100% safe - of course we know everything is going to be okay because otherwise there was no point, but as far as the characters are concerned this was just the first big step on their journey.
I guess my point is that that's character perspective. But the narrative perspective, which is what I take in account, includes where you start and stop a story, etc.

(Also, Time loops are... loopy. What if the himegami has the same idea every time round, but still persists from prior loops. So that the first time round you have one himegami, and then you get another one, the older ones loose their memories, but there's a never-ending supply of new ones... Sorry, I'll stop there.)
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Old 2013-06-17, 05:57   Link #439
kuromitsu
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You pretty much get the gist of the comparison. It's just that it doesn't really work too well. I'm not surprised you don't quite understand.
I'm relieved...

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(Also, Time loops are... loopy. What if the himegami has the same idea every time round, but still persists from prior loops. So that the first time round you have one himegami, and then you get another one, the older ones loose their memories, but there's a never-ending supply of new ones... Sorry, I'll stop there.)
Actually, I was wondering about this - what happened to Izumiko #2? We know that her brain & ovaries were preserved for study, but does that mean they actually killed and dissected her (not very likely to me...), or that they waited until she was dead? The himegami is still Izumiko #1, so assuming there was no merging of souls and such involved, what happened to the Izumiko of the second timeline?

(I'm probably not supposed to think too deeply about it...)
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Old 2013-06-20, 01:50   Link #440
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So last volume will be movie or ova. No other reason to stop 1 volume short of full novels
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