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Old 2013-06-07, 07:16   Link #81
Monster0
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Orochimaru is the best ,he'll have you guessing til the last minute.Even when he's been beaten in battle you wonder if it was just part of his plan.Does he even have a plan,you never know til it's too late.I'll bet the last chapter of this Manga that Orochimaru is still around,at the very least you can't be sure if he is or isn't.
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Old 2013-06-07, 08:11   Link #82
Hiking_Bear
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
I don't like that snake summon from sasuke

I know they have to summon those 3 to represent their respective teachers, and of course the author references the old myth/legend/folktale to create the sannin in the first place

But still, can the author be a bit more bold and let sasuke summon the hawk instead? We have enough symbolism of team 7 representing sannin in the last chapter already

Furthermore, snake was almost a sign that sasuke was controlled by Oro. When itachi freed his brother from any influence of Oro, Sasuke immediately changed the summon to a giant hawk, which was supposed to be a symbol that Sasuke finally breaks free from Oro who always tries to control Sasuke ever since the curse in part 1. But now we are back to snake summon....

It's not a big deal anyway, just a little bit of thought
Naruto and Sasuke both had their respective Sannin moments a while ago - Naruto when he used Sage mode and toad summons in his fight against Pain; and Sasuke when he used Snake jutsus in his fight against Itachi. Both have since surpassed their previous Sannin mentors. As you said, this was symbolized by Sasuke adopting the Hawk summon and the team name change from Hebi to Taka.

It's really only Sakura's Sannin moment and it's a step backwards for Naruto and Sasuke. I guess they're just humoring her.
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Old 2013-06-07, 09:28   Link #83
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Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear View Post

It's really only Sakura's Sannin moment and it's a step backwards for Naruto and Sasuke. I guess they're just humoring her.
I'm unclear why this is a step backward for Naruto. I can somewhat understand this being a step backward for Sasuke (it isn't really at all, but I can understand the idea that Sasuke has "changed" so using snakes doesn't quite work with his character anymore), but Naruto has no such unnecessarily complicated moral dilemma concerning his Toads. They are his allies and friends, so why wouldn't he use them? Simply because he has used them before? This is no step forward or backward for Naruto, it's just him using a big technique to get a job done.
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Old 2013-06-07, 09:33   Link #84
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I'm unclear why this is a step backward for Naruto. I can somewhat understand this being a step backward for Sasuke (it isn't really at all, but I can understand the idea that Sasuke has "changed" so using snakes doesn't quite work with his character anymore), but Naruto has no such unnecessarily complicated moral dilemma concerning his Toads. They are his allies and friends, so why wouldn't he use them? Simply because he has used them before? This is no step forward or backward for Naruto, it's just him using a big technique to get a job done.
The toads are related to Jiraiya and sage-mode. Naruto is already stronger than Jiraiya and is using something his master never had, that is kyubii mode. Using toads brings Naruto back to the sannin's level.
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Old 2013-06-07, 10:53   Link #85
james0246
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Originally Posted by bigdeal000 View Post
The toads are related to Jiraiya and sage-mode. Naruto is already stronger than Jiraiya and is using something his master never had, that is kyubii mode. Using toads brings Naruto back to the sannin's level.
That is really silly and a bit mystifying. Naruto using his allies (and friends) and abilities to fight is in no way a lessening of his talents or abilities nor a diversion from whatever current character growth he might have. Whether or not Naruto has surpassed Jiraiya has nothing to do with the usefulness of a 100 meter tall monster Toad. To put it in perspective, should Naruto forgo ever using the regular Rasengan or extra big Rasengan again since he's already surpassed Minato and Jiraiya (though Minato seems to have found a way to surpass Naruto even in death)? Or should he use whatever he needs to in order to get the job done? Bear in mind, he used a regular Rasengan to break Obito's mask not to long ago, he also used Sage Mode on the Jyuubi not to long ago as well. There is no moral dilemma (or any kind of meta-fictional dilemma) or lack of character growth for Naruto to use or not use any of his abilities, unlike Sasuke who has several arguably "tainted" techniques that he shouldn't use simply because they are derived from a monster or because they reflect a "lesser" version of himself.

Frankly, Kishimoto created a more than adequate situation that required the use of three large summon beasts, so there use is in no way negatively reflective on the characters involved.

Last edited by james0246; 2013-06-07 at 11:25.
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Old 2013-06-07, 12:27   Link #86
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
The question I posed doesn't ask for official answers. It was only intended to invite opinions and speculative based responses *on the issue*.

"Posts like that" refers to any post that expresses dislike towards any character. (It doesn't just have to be Hinata.) I find engaging in such discussion vexes me rather quickly. Therefore, I try to stay away from it. Though admittedly, the keyword is "try".

So if that's how you honestly feel about Hinata, then fine. So be it.

Well, I'm relieved to see a completed boring genius-type character like Neji get killed off before Hinata. But hey, that's also just my opinion. Say what you will about Hinata's character and how little she actually contributes to the plot, but the romantic aspect she represents has at least lead to pulling Naruto through some pretty tight spots at some very clutch and pivotal moments--which is more than I can say in comparison to anything Neji's done in part 2. So while her contributions may have been few and far in between, at least they're noticeable.
I'm also inclined to agree with this. I'm not the hugest fan of Hinata but she has contributed more to the plot than Neji whose role ended in part one. Neji's role in part two was to prove that Naruto can change people and Naruto was right about destiny, which he wasn't but that's a different story for a different time. Outside of that Neji really had no reason to exist in part two and never did anything which is in contrast with Hinata whose ridiculously one-sided love for the main character managed to get said guy out of a few tight spots. Neji really was a waste of potential but that was because Kishimoto was done with his character. I actually prefer for him to dead. He had too much potential for Kishi to do nothing with his character but use him to prove a point. It was frustrating to watch and if he was still alive Kishimoto would still be doing nothing with his character. Is Kishimoto doing anything with Rock Lee and Tenten? Nope. Both of whom also had potential.

Another way of looking at this is that Neji's death served to further exalt Naruto and to prove Naruto's (totally invalid) theory about destiny right. So in a sense Neji was fullfilling his role by dying. Also, to add insult to injury he was basically forgotten after he died.
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Old 2013-06-07, 12:36   Link #87
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I don't think sage mode is less or better than kyubi mode,just different.If Naruto were split in two, one kyubi mode and one in sage mode, and made to fight himself it would be pretty even match.Granted that if he could have some time to extend the length he can be sage mode it might be better.But i can't forget that he still has more kyubi power waiting for him aswell.
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Old 2013-06-07, 13:52   Link #88
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by bigdeal000 View Post
The toads are related to Jiraiya and sage-mode. Naruto is already stronger than Jiraiya and is using something his master never had, that is kyubii mode. Using toads brings Naruto back to the sannin's level.
My guess is that in this big final fight the author will make team 7 shine by showing off many of their abilities, the fight being kind of an exhibition of all their knowledge and abilities that they have gained so far. They announced the race for the hokage title so this part of the final battle kinda feels like a mini-competition where they all show how strong ninja they became since the chuunin exams, of course focusing very much on Sasuke and Naruto, as we have seen they already are thinking of each other as rivals and watching carefully what the other can do.

This competitive fighting will probably last only until the next chapter since this war will probably become much more dramatic again. My assumption was that the bad guys will kill off the remaining parts of the alliance and even defeat the hokages so that Naruto and Sasuke will be forced to join forces (similarly to the fight against Zabuza here they are rivals (remember the author makes Sasuke tell to Naruto his old stuff: "don't get in my way"). We still didn't see Sasuke's EMS powerup and also Naruto will receive a powerup from his father. They already killed so many that it's likely Kishimoto will not let that last, so if a mass revival will come at the very end then now it's free dramatic-time for the author where even people like Hinata and Sakura can be killed off. At least i hope that the current happy little reunion and competition will not ruin the grand finale by making it some kind of sparring ground for young konoha ninja.

So i just enjoy seeing the other Konoha ex-genin teams now, because these few chapters are probably the last show of their full power, they reach their limit and they very soon become spectators if they are lucky or they die.
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Old 2013-06-07, 16:37   Link #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post

Frankly, Kishimoto created a more than adequate situation that required the use of three large summon beasts, so there use is in no way negatively reflective on the characters involved.
Well guys, it's been a long 10 years. I've been watching and following Naruto on and off since about 2003. I'm done. Good job with moderation James. I'm moving on. Kishimoto is really in over his head on where to go with this series. And I don't want to be around when he makes up reasons to bring villains back or out of the woodwork to develop suspense. Without a doubt, this series has been lackluster for me ever since Itachi died. I never thought a story could frustrate me as much as Aizen and Bleach did but this last chapter is the straw that broke the camel's back. Maybe in 2-3 years I'll go on Youtube and look up videos of the major fights but other than that, it's outtie 5000.

And man, a 2006 account too! Talk about feeling old! I'll lurk the recommendations forum though.

PS: Sasuke coming back is pure nonsense. It was entirely out of tune with what was going on and we needed more villains.
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Old 2013-06-07, 20:08   Link #90
Kenu
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It was fine when Kishimoto knew where he was going. It's only a problem now that he has stretched the story so thin in substance that he's lost focus on making a compact compelling story.

Sometimes it's better to finish well rather than drag out a series like this just for profit.
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Old 2013-06-07, 23:34   Link #91
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It seems more that they are using the summons to buy themselves time till the 9 tails has the chakra molded. Plus is pretty cool seeing team 7 together again, even if its for a short while because we really have no idea what anyone is thinking at this moment about sasuke and his true intentions.
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Old 2013-06-08, 06:32   Link #92
bigdeal000
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
That is really silly and a bit mystifying. Naruto using his allies (and friends) and abilities to fight is in no way a lessening of his talents or abilities nor a diversion from whatever current character growth he might have. Whether or not Naruto has surpassed Jiraiya has nothing to do with the usefulness of a 100 meter tall monster Toad. To put it in perspective, should Naruto forgo ever using the regular Rasengan or extra big Rasengan again since he's already surpassed Minato and Jiraiya (though Minato seems to have found a way to surpass Naruto even in death)? Or should he use whatever he needs to in order to get the job done? Bear in mind, he used a regular Rasengan to break Obito's mask not to long ago, he also used Sage Mode on the Jyuubi not to long ago as well. There is no moral dilemma (or any kind of meta-fictional dilemma) or lack of character growth for Naruto to use or not use any of his abilities, unlike Sasuke who has several arguably "tainted" techniques that he shouldn't use simply because they are derived from a monster or because they reflect a "lesser" version of himself.

Frankly, Kishimoto created a more than adequate situation that required the use of three large summon beasts, so there use is in no way negatively reflective on the characters involved.
I agree with the first part, but...the situation was that he tried to make Sakura look like an equal to Sasuke and Naruto. How did he do that? By making Sakura do something she never did before, making some of us go "whoa!!" and by making the other 2 do the same thing as Sakura, something that made people go "meh". You want to make Sakura look as strong as the other 2, when the other 2 can do more impressive things? Ain't gonna work...
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Old 2013-06-08, 08:51   Link #93
james0246
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Originally Posted by bigdeal000 View Post
I agree with the first part, but...the situation was that he tried to make Sakura look like an equal to Sasuke and Naruto. How did he do that? By making Sakura do something she never did before, making some of us go "whoa!!" and by making the other 2 do the same thing as Sakura, something that made people go "meh". You want to make Sakura look as strong as the other 2, when the other 2 can do more impressive things? Ain't gonna work...
Personally, I did not see it as a way of equating Sakura to the rest of Team 7 (though I did see it as a way of raising Sakura above the other Konoha-9), I just saw it as a cool image and the first time we'd seen the three giant summons of Konoha on a page together since the aborted Sannin battle.
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Old 2013-06-08, 09:41   Link #94
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I just don't see why Kishimoto couldn't be creative with Sakura, like, at all. Even if you're just going to upgrade her punch in strength and nothing more, why not have some fun with it? How about an explanation that this new megapunch of hers combines her strength with her precise chakra control, so that the force causes complete cellular annihilation in anything it touches? Like Naruto's Rasenshuriken, but on a massive scale.

At least make it somewhat interesting, jeez.
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Old 2013-06-08, 13:33   Link #95
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Ero-Senn1n, I was in a hurry so I did not pay attention to your reply, sorry. Anyway, I think you're exaggerating about everyone being killed like that, but defeated...possible. Though it will take some time to get the hokages down imo
Still, I don't think anyone important died, and I don't think we're in need of a mass revival. Anyway, the point is, you're just enjoying the cool moment, kinda what james said as well. I personally don't think it was that cool for the "you're better than that" reason, but each to it's own.
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Old 2013-06-10, 16:57   Link #96
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Originally Posted by Eragon View Post
^ "The cycle cannot be broken" - Cookies for anyone who identifies where this quote comes from (james cannot participate)
When I saw that my BrainZ activated:

Obito: "Your words are as empty as your future. I am the vanguard of your destruction."

Madara: "We are the Harbinger of your destiny. You are ninja-academy-kids struggling against kages. This hurts you!"

Pain: "Naruto! I know with certainty, that we can control hatred! Control is the means to survival!"




OK enough ME, back to Naruto:
Naruto and Sasuke are weak. They are only Genin, they will soon be killed.
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Old 2013-06-11, 02:31   Link #97
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not that it was ever really a summons in the first place, but i'd like to see sasuke summon cats next. ...so they could lazily lay around and lick themselves and not care about the war...
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Old 2013-06-11, 16:08   Link #98
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I think the funniest thing about that premise would be the fact that the slugs would be more useful than the cats. Who would've thought?
*edit*
Then again, who would've thought the slugs would be just as useful as the snakes and the frogs? *shrugs*

Last edited by sayde; 2013-06-11 at 16:24.
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Old 2013-06-12, 00:24   Link #99
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Chapter 634 discussion thread has been created. Please move all relevant discussions to the new thread.
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