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Old 2013-06-12, 11:17   Link #1901
Wild Goose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Don't put words in my mouth, I'm a Filipino American - a Half Breed from a Caucasian Father and Filipino Mother. So I know plenty about racism growing up. Doesn't help that when I was younger I was confused for Japanese/Chinese and now Mexican in modern times and the ever so often Japanese/Chinese mistake as well.
I don't have to put words in your mouth - you do a fine enough job of that by yourself. Or have you really forgotten your opinions of last august? When characters were explicitly shown as being racist, you stated that it was not wrong because that was what their society mandated.

Also, taking the benchmark that you were expounding at the time, I pointed out that logically you were alright with worse things that happen today, because those acts are considered appropriate and acceptable by the societies that practiced them. I received no rebuttal, which I consider to be a tacit acknowledgement on your part.

If you're really forgotten what you said, you're quite welcome to refer back to the Episode 5 Poll & Discussion Thread. An example of what you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
No you're wrong. Society decides it(Which is why things that were okay in the past are no longer deemed okay today because Society evolved over time and decided that those things are wrong. While back than they were acceptable). We can say that the Romans were racist but back than they never even saw it as such nor did society or their defeated enemies. It's just how they did things. So no, it isn't racism because society in TE doesn't see it as racism nor do they care all that much about it. Thus Yui saw nothing wrong with berating Yuuya because as far as she's concerned he is kin.
And don't act as if you're somehow unique. I have to face racism as well, a more insidious form of racism, as I'm not considered a "true" member of my race, but an outsider. This has cost me my position and raise and my manager and coworkers are screwing me over because I'm not a full Indian. All of us will face racism at some point in our lives. Whether it's because we're different, or not the same.

Which, frankly, makes your excusing the racism of TE Japan and America all the more surprising.

Also, you've yet to answer my question, as to whether you would still oppose this relationship if romantic sibling relationships were societally acceptable.

Quote:
Now that Yui knows they're related she shouldn't hold such feelings for him anymore. Her connection she felt for him is now explained as they're siblings. After all it isn't uncommon for separated siblings to accidentally find each other and feel a strange attraction.
Hmm. Your opposition to a relationship between Yui and Yuuya is from your IRL views. Then how do you reconcile that with these statements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
It needed to be said, trying to place RL views isn't going to make this anime enjoyable at all since it isn't RL(even if it's set on Earth) and has a number of changes with things that aren't okay in RL but are perfectly fine in TE. Such as National Pride that would be considered racism in RL but it isn't at all in TE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
And again you're wrong for trying to force you RL views in a setting that is vastly different.
By your actions and words, you display yourself to be a hypocrite. Are you not at this point using RL views? Are you not forcing you own RL views onto a fictional work?

If it was wrong for DezoPenguin and I to disagree with and oppose the racism displayed in Total Eclipse, it is equally wrong for you to oppose Yui's incestuous romantic feelings towards Yuuya.

You cannot have your cake and eat it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth View Post
I'll just point out that it's slightly ridiculous that people are ranting on YuuyaxYui being "wrong" now, but they aren't at the least bothered by the fact that 13 year old girls are trained into killers. FYI, this constitutes a war crime in real life.

Or you know, the massive abuse and crimes against humanity that Alternatives III and IV were. A sister wanting to screw her brother is small-time.
Exactly. QFT.

Quote:
Eeeerrr....why? Because your morality says so? I'm sorry, but that's the wrong application of the word "should". No, she doesn't have to do as you think, and no, her attraction does not have be based upon the fact that she subconsciously knew Yuuya was her brother. Yes, cases like that happen. But there are legitimate cases were such attraction was, and continues to be, romantic in nature.

Their connection isn't "explained". The fact comes out randomly during a discussion about a completely unrelated topic, solely because Heineman was feeling like being a troll.
This cannot be stressed enough. While I personally feel that Heineman was probably telling the truth, the fact also remains that we have no real reason to trust what he says. The burden of proof is on him to prove that his statements are correct, and so far all the evidence he's given, while being convincing, is nontheless circumstantial. I studied law, and I can tell you this - I wouldn't go to a courtroom with just Heineman's testimony to build my case.

Quote:
EDIT: Also, using conventional morality on Japanese Visual novel/anime/light novel series such as this, is an exercise doomed to failure. Better to not do it at all.
What I find extremely ironic, as I posted above, is that almost a year ago he'd argued the same thing - you can't force RL views onto a fictional work - yet he is now doing exactly that.
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Last edited by Wild Goose; 2013-06-12 at 11:34.
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Old 2013-06-13, 00:10   Link #1902
Esg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth View Post

Eeeerrr....why? Because your morality says so? I'm sorry, but that's the wrong application of the word "should". No, she doesn't have to do as you think, and no, her attraction does not have be based upon the fact that she subconsciously knew Yuuya was her brother. Yes, cases like that happen. But there are legitimate cases were such attraction was, and continues to be, romantic in nature.

Their connection isn't "explained". The fact comes out randomly during a discussion about a completely unrelated topic, solely because Heineman was feeling like being a troll.

EDIT: Also, using conventional morality on Japanese Visual novel/anime/light novel series such as this, is an exercise doomed to failure. Better to not do it at all.
Oh please Toth. Do you have some kind of urge to bone your sister? If not you shouldn't be all that bothered by people being squicked out by incest. I'd like to drop this subject as quickly as humanly possible
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Eh, they've had separated children meet up years later and fall in love because of a "Connection" and almost always when they found out even after they married they divorced or stopping doing or wanting to do "that".

I still see it as all kinds of wrong for a sister, even half sister, to lust after her brother even after learning that fact.

I honestly hope that sibling thing isn't really a real thing but as it's Muv-Luv I wouldn't put incest out of the question for Yui at least.
Thankfully thats averted as she looses the Tortilla Chips

Last edited by Esg; 2013-06-13 at 00:20.
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Old 2013-06-13, 00:20   Link #1903
Esg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
And again you're wrong for trying to force you RL views in a setting that is vastly different. To them it isn't racism it's just business as usual.

No you're wrong. Society decides it(Which is why things that were okay in the past are no longer deemed okay today because Society evolved over time and decided that those things are wrong. While back than they were acceptable). We can say that the Romans were racist but back than they never even saw it as such nor did society or their defeated enemies. It's just how they did things. So no, it isn't racism because society in TE doesn't see it as racism nor do they care all that much about it. Thus Yui saw nothing wrong with berating Yuuya because as far as she's concerned he is kin.

Let's take an example than. Let's say in the future it's considered a grave sin to have a family because of overpopulation issues yet in right now it isn't an issue and no one even thinks about something like that. Sure it's a sin in the future to have a family but at this time period it isn't since society has no issues with families.

And they already showed you why things are out of wake. Important events that helped shape our world happen MUCH differently in TE than there's the BETA threat as well. That's why things are different and why it's foolish to expect things to be like RL anyway despite this very major changes.
I would honestly like to know more about how American history went in depth within the Alternative verse really. I'm less offended by your point and more fascinated as it is an alternative history. It mentioned in narration Civil rights took a backseat to the BETA in TE I'd like to know more in detail. Is Apartheid still in order? Did a whole lot of things supposed to happen in the 60's not happen? Your only fault is your assumption has entirely no basis without more proof about what they see as racism
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Old 2013-06-13, 02:20   Link #1904
Wild Goose
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Originally Posted by Esg View Post
Oh please Toth. Do you have some kind of urge to bone your sister? If not you shouldn't be all that bothered by people being squicked out by incest. I'd like to drop this subject as quickly as humanly possible.
Not me, because I was a Yuiya shipper before, and now ship Yuiyacest.

As Destined_Fate insisted almost a year ago, it is wrong to view the series while maintaining RL views. Therefore, the real life disapproval of incestuous relationships should not be maintained while discussing/viewing/reading Total Eclipse. Ergo, it is wrong to say, based on RL beliefs and views, that Yui's incestuous feelings for Yuuya are abhorrent.

(As for whether they're related: Again, we're give no other evidence except for Heineman, and frankly the man has shown that he can be a dick when he chooses. I would not make a case reliant solely on his testimony.)

Also, while I can't speak for AMT, my objections to Destined_Fate are more to the hypocrisy that he's shown.

Quote:
Thankfully thats averted as she looses the Tortilla Chips
What tortilla chips?
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Old 2013-06-13, 10:26   Link #1905
Esg
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Quote:
(As for whether they're related: Again, we're give no other evidence except for Heineman, and frankly the man has shown that he can be a dick when he chooses. I would not make a case reliant solely on his testimony.)
It's made pretty obvious seeing how yuuyas mother and Yui and Yuyya's dad worked with one another. They have similar names and the fact Top Guns mother had the same stew Yui knew how to make seemed like a clue as is.
Quote:
What tortilla chips?
You need to get on /m/ more
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Old 2013-06-13, 11:09   Link #1906
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Originally Posted by Esg View Post
You need to get on /m/ more
/m/? You mean 4chan in general?
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Old 2013-06-13, 11:11   Link #1907
Alastor Mobius Toth
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Originally Posted by Esg View Post
Oh please Toth. Do you have some kind of urge to bone your sister? If not you shouldn't be all that bothered by people being squicked out by incest. I'd like to drop this subject as quickly as humanly possible
You're misunderstanding something; I'm not squicked out by it. To the contrary, I'm pointing out why it can occur, and why Destined_Fate's assumptions are somewhat high-handed.

Frankly, I don't remotely give a shit if people are related or even the same gender if they love each other.

Also, I'll just note that the irony is in that the incest part never comes up in the VN, from the sheer fact that Yuuya never learned of it. GG age. Making troll moves and not following up on it...I'm cool with trolling, but if you start it, you gotta finish it...but I digress.

I'm assuming tortilla would have something to do with more reaction TE VN shots?
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Last edited by Alastor Mobius Toth; 2013-06-13 at 12:03.
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Old 2013-06-13, 11:35   Link #1908
Wild Goose
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Originally Posted by Esg View Post
It's made pretty obvious seeing how yuuyas mother and Yui and Yuyya's dad worked with one another. They have similar names and the fact Top Guns mother had the same stew Yui knew how to make seemed like a clue as is.
Your evidence is circumstantial. The point I am trying to make here is that all evidence that Yuuya and Yui are half siblings is highly circumstantial, and the case primarily hinges on the testimony of a witness who has been demonstrated to be unreliable and willing to twist the truth to suit his own purposes. I would not attempt to present a case with the evidence we have - not even as an essay, let alone going to court.

(I'll allow that on the balance of probabilities, Yuuya and Yui are most likely related, but age has not explicitly said so, merely dropped plenty of hints while still leaving things just vague enough that they could backpedal if need be.)

Quote:
You need to get on /m/ more
No, you brought up the meme, and when pressed for an explanation, the onus is on you to explain the meme and phrasings that you use.

Also, how fucking hard can it be to click the "Quote Post" button?
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Old 2013-06-13, 22:10   Link #1909
Esg
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Your evidence is circumstantial. The point I am trying to make here is that all evidence that Yuuya and Yui are half siblings is highly circumstantial, and the case primarily hinges on the testimony of a witness who has been demonstrated to be unreliable and willing to twist the truth to suit his own purposes. I would not attempt to present a case with the evidence we have - not even as an essay, let alone going to court.

(I'll allow that on the balance of probabilities, Yuuya and Yui are most likely related, but age has not explicitly said so, merely dropped plenty of hints while still leaving things just vague enough that they could backpedal if need be.)
Yeah but you don't have anything disproving him either or anything putting his statement in doubt.


Quote:
No, you brought up the meme, and when pressed for an explanation, the onus is on you to explain the meme and phrasings that you use.

Also, how fucking hard can it be to click the "Quote Post" button?
Tortilla Chips= Total Eclipse it rhymes

Why are you getting so frustrated over this of all things hot damn son
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Old 2013-06-14, 01:19   Link #1910
Wild Goose
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Yeah but you don't have anything disproving him either or anything putting his statement in doubt.
That's why circumstantial evidence is so hated by anyone who's actually studied law properly. Also, I'm going to quote something which I don't think you understood:

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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
...the case primarily hinges on the testimony of a witness who has been demonstrated to be unreliable and willing to twist the truth to suit his own purposes.
Do I have anything explicitly disproving Heineman? No. However, by his actions, Heineman is not a reliable witness. In court, a case reliant on his testimony would not be a case I'd want to argue, because of how weak it is. Any decent first year law student could demolish a case built on his foundation.

The irony is that while we're arguing over how reliable and convincing the evidence presented and Heineman's testimony is, I myself ship Yuiyacest.

Quote:
Tortilla Chips= Total Eclipse it rhymes

Why are you getting so frustrated over this of all things hot damn son
Probably because the way of Anime Suki's denizens is to bring up shit, then refuse to defend or explain their points, and shift the effort to the other party. It's something I've noted that appears endemic to this place, over the last seven years I've been here.

And also, unlike certain persons *cough*Kaijo*cough*, I actually studied law for real. So I'm quite annoyed by people who don't lay things out properly as they should.
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Old 2013-06-14, 06:24   Link #1911
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Wild Goose you're making this personal and taking my words out of context and twisting them to suit your support for incest. I suggest you stop, you getting angry over this isn't going to change my view on this incest thing and that Yui needs to get over Yuuya now as they're siblings and she knows it now. She cannot claim ignorance to it anymore.

I also don't appreciate you stalking my user page and leaving that comment. Get a grip already, not everyone supports incest like you.
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Old 2013-06-14, 06:31   Link #1912
Alastor Mobius Toth
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*gets some popcorn*

Oh, this will be good.

Also, your notion that a certain character should so something on the basis of your own believes is as silly, as it is equally selfish.

People do not work that way. If they did, we wouldn't have 2000 years plus of religions and ethnic massacres. GG, now go back and try again.
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Last edited by Alastor Mobius Toth; 2013-06-14 at 06:41.
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Old 2013-06-14, 07:10   Link #1913
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Once again, you're also making false assumptions to try and pick a fight with your hostility. I'm above that and I'm not stupid enough to fall for your bait. I suggest dropping it as if this continues the mods will put their foot down before it gets out of hand or if it does get out of hand.
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Old 2013-06-14, 08:14   Link #1914
Alastor Mobius Toth
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I'm not being hostile, I'm pointing out that you're acting incredibly conceited in regards to your moral high-ground, high-horse. If you take that as hostility, then it is, frankly, your problem.

There is nothing to support your arguments (within the established framework of Muv-Luv universe), rendering them flat. Yui's attraction is not explained as Yuuya being her brother; it is a completely unrelated piece of information revealed by a person who passively resents Yui's father. Her attitude was consistently developed through the LN, anime and VN as being romantic in nature (girl meets boy, girl falls in love); Yui's problems in recognizing her feelings lie in her suffering from PTSD, not some abstract subconscious thing. Uncovering new information regarding her love's parentage does not immediately change the nature of such bond, because that is not how the bloody psychology works. Hell, the incest angle is incredibly vague anyway, because Yui drops off the radar towards the end, and Yuuya never learns of the fact.

And yes, saying that someone should act in a given way because morality/society/etc says so. (as you have, quite literally, written before), is conceited. That's because you're not this person, you do not have the same problems, issues etc,etc, and therefore you have no, absolutely none, right to say how other people should behave. This is one of the fundamental ideas behind the concept of freedom in the human race.

If that's not what you wanted to say, then frankly, your phrasing has failed.
Have a nice day.
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Last edited by Alastor Mobius Toth; 2013-06-14 at 08:25.
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Old 2013-06-14, 08:37   Link #1915
Destined_Fate
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As I said drop it, you're being hostile in my eyes and are attacking me as a person over this and it shows how little you care about what I think with you saying "You have nothing to support"...

Thus we aren't doing this. It takes two or more to tango, consider me not joining in as I know exactly how this will turn out based upon yours and Wild Goose's recent posts alone.
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Old 2013-06-14, 08:50   Link #1916
Alastor Mobius Toth
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It is a statement, based on rational analysis of the matter at hand. It does not have a value by itself, it states facts, and the facts say that your arguments are without valid basis. How is that an attack? Or how am I responsible for this?


*shrug*

On a completely related topic:

Well played tags. Well played. It took me for too long to notice that.
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:20   Link #1917
Wild Goose
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Damn, I kinda wanted to have the last word there. Oh, well. This is what happens when you sit down and type without an outline, and then start revising, and editing... you can take the man out from Law , but you can't take Law out from the man.

Basically: Goose does yet another tl;dr post. Right, let's be about it.

...and because I have tomorrow off and had nothing better to do, here's an audio version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Wild Goose you're making this personal and taking my words out of context and twisting them to suit your support for incest. I suggest you stop, you getting angry over this isn't going to change my view on this incest thing and that Yui needs to get over Yuuya now as they're siblings and she knows it now. She cannot claim ignorance to it anymore.
No, you are making this personal. I point out the hypocrisy in your actions and say that you should abide by the yardstick that you use. Your response is instead to attack me, by insinuating that this argument - in which I've been coldly polite towards you, I might add - is due to my support of incest, and not because I disagree with your opinion and your hypocrisy.

I'm reminded of what Lord Aquitaine said in Furies of Calderon: "Ad hominem is a notoriously weak logical argument. And is usually used to distract the focus of a discussion—to move it from an indefensible point and to attack the opponent."

And how, may I ask, am I taking things out of context? In that discussion, DezoPenguin and I noted the racism displayed, and you told us we were wrong for trying to force RL views into a setting that is vastly different. Yet in this case, you are also doing the same. I'll lay it out for you:

Scenario A:
Wild Goose:
"Racism is wrong (RL view), as displayed in Total Eclipse (fictional setting)."

Scenario B:
Destined_Fate:
"Yui's incestuous feelings are wrong (RL view) as displayed in Total Eclipse (fictional setting)."

I will quote yet again your statement on RL views and Total Eclipse:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
And again you're wrong for trying to force you RL views in a setting that is vastly different.
As I have said earlier, if my opposition to the racism of Total Eclipse was wrong, because I was forcing a view I hold in Real Life onto the series, then by the same yardstick, your opposition of Yui's incestuous feelings towards Yuuya is also wrong, because you are likewise forcing a view you hold in Real Life onto the series.

You cannot have your cake and eat it. Your opinion is that Yui's feelings for Yuuya are wrong. That is an RL view you are forcing on this setting. That is the same as my RL view that the racism seen in Total Eclipse is wrong. Therefore, since you have earlier said that it is wrong to force RL views onto this setting, both our views are wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
I also don't appreciate you stalking my user page and leaving that comment. Get a grip already, not everyone supports incest like you.
Seriously, you claim I'm stalking you? There's a link to your profile that pops up if I click on your username. The profile and visitor messages are public, and are not hidden. The link itself says "View Public Profile." (Emphasis mine.) I'm using an alternative, public means of sending you a message - a message that, to the best of my knowledge, you have not replied to, since I've got nothing on my public profile. This is a method that is publicly available, and is enabled by default for all users of this forum. That isn't stalking.

(If I'd gotten your email address (which is private) or your telephone number or your house address for wherever you live, now that would be stalking. It's evident that I have done none of these things.)

Furthermore, I find your condescending attitude to be off-putting. I am aware that my support of such relationships is in a minority, but you do not seem aware that your opinion is likewise not universal. It is symptomatic of a further hypocrisy I see in you - your conduct and posts imply to an outside reader that only your opinion is valid, and the opinions of others are not as valid as yours, if they disagree with you.

You have the right to your opinion; likewise I too have the right to my opinion, and we shall defend our opinions to the best of our ability. Defend, not disparage.

Note that throughout this entire debate, I have not disparaged your opinion, or called it wrong. I have simply laid out how the situation could have happened, and then I have been addressing you on your hypocrisy.

Also, I must disagree with you on yet another regard: this debate isn't really about incest or not, or your disapproval or my support of the said pairing - incest as a whole is merely a tangent, one which I believe you are raising up in an attempt to shift goalposts and focus. I also find a certain ironic amusement that for all the drama over Yui's incestuous feelings for Yuuya, what is shown in the VN is that she tries to act properly, she doesn't make any love confessions or the like, and gives Yuuya the family sword. So yes, she is doing her best to try and get over Yuuya. What more do you want from her?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Once again, you're also making false assumptions to try and pick a fight with your hostility. I'm above that and I'm not stupid enough to fall for your bait. I suggest dropping it as if this continues the mods will put their foot down before it gets out of hand or if it does get out of hand.
I'm really not sure if you're addressing this to AMT or myself, but I would just like to point out that so far? Most of the hostility and aggression is coming from your side.

I'm just methodically laying out arguments, the way I was taught to present a case, and drawing attention to your conduct. Meanwhile, you have been attacking my person.

Note that throughout this, throughout all of my posts, I have been arguing in the legal sense. I present an argument, I present my points, whereas you instead have not chosen to respond to me on my points, but instead you have been attacking me. And now you accuse us of making personal attacks.

By your conduct you are known.

-=-

Right, some personal thoughts here.

At the end of the day, the heart loves as it will. It is not beholden to the mind. It cannot be commanded in the way the mind commands the body. The heart feels as it feels, the heart loves as it loves. Yui loves Yuuya. Of this, there can be no argument.

Yui, then, is left trying to understand the nature of her love for Yuuya and their relationship. It began with harsh words and mutual acrimony in the Yukon hangars. The hate shifted to philia, on the bloodstained and battle-scarred plains of Kamchatka. And when they returned to Alaska, Yui perceived her love as changing to eros, and prepared to pursue this relationship in that regard - until a sudden shock upset her mental balance and view of how things went.

And now, in light of this revelation, Yui - damaged, emotionally scarred Yui, Yui who is experiencing her first love, Yui for the first time in years is happy - a condition that scares her - Yui tries to do the best she can, to try and understand whether this love is philia or eros.

But of this, there is no doubt: Yui's love for Yuuya exists.

The heart loves as it will.
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Old 2013-06-14, 10:35   Link #1918
dmaxzero
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.... With all due respect the heart is a muscle that pumps blood. The concept of "heart" as an emotional handler, is still a mindset, thus theoretically can be controlled. That we canīt or we choose not to is a whole different thing.

And thatīs all.
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Old 2013-06-14, 10:50   Link #1919
Wild Goose
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Originally Posted by dmaxzero View Post
.... With all due respect the heart is a muscle that pumps blood. The concept of "heart" as an emotional handler, is still a mindset, thus theoretically can be controlled. That we canīt or we choose not to is a whole different thing.

And thatīs all.
Would you have preferred it if I referred to the emotional liver then? Since in the Middle East it's believed that the emotional/romantic center of the person is the liver. In Bahasa it's kinda confusing, because the word we use is "hati", which technically means liver, but in practically every colloquial use, hati is the emotional/romantic heart, while "jantung" refers to the organ itself.

But that aside, regardless of whatever term or where you believe the emotional/romantic center of the person is, the fact is that it's separate from the mind. Love is not always a logical thinking thing. Just because we conceptualise the heart as being the emotion center does not mean we can control the aforesaid conceptualisation. Emotions - and love - are funny, that way.

Having said that, I had thought that it was obvious that I was referring to the heart as the concept of the emotional center of the person, and not to the heart as an organ critical to sustaining life. I suppose I'll have to work on making that clearer, somehow. Maybe something was lost in text, as opposed to voice delivery.

Edit: Also, I've been shipping incest couples since before it was fashionable. I don't need to use anyone or twist anything to support my incest yay shipping. That's my kink - loving heterosexual xouples in a relationship based on mutual love and consent. As kinks go, it's smalltime.
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Last edited by Wild Goose; 2013-06-14 at 13:20.
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Old 2013-06-14, 16:48   Link #1920
Esg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth View Post
I'm not being hostile, I'm pointing out that you're acting incredibly conceited in regards to your moral high-ground, high-horse. If you take that as hostility, then it is, frankly, your problem.

There is nothing to support your arguments (within the established framework of Muv-Luv universe), rendering them flat. Yui's attraction is not explained as Yuuya being her brother; it is a completely unrelated piece of information revealed by a person who passively resents Yui's father. Her attitude was consistently developed through the LN, anime and VN as being romantic in nature (girl meets boy, girl falls in love); Yui's problems in recognizing her feelings lie in her suffering from PTSD, not some abstract subconscious thing. Uncovering new information regarding her love's parentage does not immediately change the nature of such bond, because that is not how the bloody psychology works. Hell, the incest angle is incredibly vague anyway, because Yui drops off the radar towards the end, and Yuuya never learns of the fact.

And yes, saying that someone should act in a given way because morality/society/etc says so. (as you have, quite literally, written before), is conceited. That's because you're not this person, you do not have the same problems, issues etc,etc, and therefore you have no, absolutely none, right to say how other people should behave. This is one of the fundamental ideas behind the concept of freedom in the human race.

If that's not what you wanted to say, then frankly, your phrasing has failed.
Have a nice day.
Well logically Incest isn't exactly healthy so you trying to play off the morality isn't for everyone isn't factoring in logic.
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