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Old 2013-06-14, 08:24   Link #3501
dragon1412
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Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
I still don't understand the Manami hate to this day, her reasoning is just as valid as anyone else in the story. She is the authors scapegoat however and she appears plain and perfect but she is a girl like any other so she manipulated the situation the way she thought was the best and would suit her needs. She is hardly the only person in this story being manipulative though and I think people forget that.
well, in my cased, it's more like that her personality is having some problem, ever since vol 1, Kyousuke is too defenseless again her, which make her similar to his family members, true, her reason is as valid as everyone else, however, let's take Kirino and Kyousuke cold war as example, Manami is the person who partly responsible for the cause of that war, of course, it's not likely that she intent that to happen but more like she want them to become normal siblings, nothing wrong with that as well but the problem is that when the war happened and Manami is aware of it, she make no attempt to clean up her mess, or at least, mend their broken bonds, infact, she even shower Kirino with her idea, when did she have the right to barge in their relationship anyway. Second, she is considered manipulative because she have clear intent to do it, when Kirino make Kyousuke played eroge, she was worry about the prejudice of her brother, and she make him continue played to keep their bonds rather than maniplated him to love her, Manami is diffirent, she make Kyousuke into a normal people with clear intent, to be honest, what or who give her right to questioned his quality? more over , she interfere with someoneelse ego, which is an unacceptable act in term of psychology because it control a human life, of course, Kyousuke ego did return throughout the series as his ego is what make him Kyousuke. However, the fact that Manami influences Kyousuke ego to her intent is exist, which can be considered a moral issue which is far worse than Incest. And well her punch at vol 12 is just out of character, interpret that as you will.
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Old 2013-06-14, 08:40   Link #3502
Wilshere
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Originally Posted by dragon1412 View Post
well, in my cased, it's more like that her personality is having some problem, ever since vol 1, Kyousuke is too defenseless again her, which make her similar to his family members, true, her reason is as valid as everyone else, however, let's take Kirino and Kyousuke cold war as example, Manami is the person who partly responsible for the cause of that war, of course, it's not likely that she intent that to happen but more like she want them to become normal siblings, nothing wrong with that as well but the problem is that when the war happened and Manami is aware of it, she make no attempt to clean up her mess, or at least, mend their broken bonds, infact, she even shower Kirino with her idea, when did she have the right to barge in their relationship anyway. Second, she is considered manipulative because she have clear intent to do it, when Kirino make Kyousuke played eroge, she was worry about the prejudice of her brother, and she make him continue played to keep their bonds rather than maniplated him to love her, Manami is diffirent, she make Kyousuke into a normal people with clear intent, to be honest, what or who give her right to questioned his quality? more over , she interfere with someoneelse ego, which is an unacceptable act in term of psychology because it control a human life, of course, Kyousuke ego did return throughout the series as his ego is what make him Kyousuke. However, the fact that Manami influences Kyousuke ego to her intent is exist, which can be considered a moral issue which is far worse than Incest. And well her punch at vol 12 is just out of character, interpret that as you will.
I think the reason Manami punched Kirino was not because of her taunting,but because she knew that she lost and screwed up at the end. Being an adult doesnt give you the right of punching people around and I think she went a bit too far with her reaction. She created the distance between them and now they are closer than ever.
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Old 2013-06-14, 08:45   Link #3503
seangel92
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Fuck Manami, I didn't like her since the first volume.
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Old 2013-06-14, 08:47   Link #3504
Sakura_Tsuki
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Originally Posted by seangel92 View Post
Yes, Fushimi gave us a romantic history between two siblings with an ambiguous ending. If you want that they pursue their love history, take it, Fushimi gave us a lot of hints and history to make us think that they will be together in a romantic way. If you are against incest, you can think that they gonna go to a normal siblings way.

Do you want it? take it but the love history ending is there with a lot more evidences than the others endings.
I think people who deny the hidden incest plot. Who has a lot more hints. That you can't throw away just like that as a theorie. They have a problem with incest story's.

I know for sure that if kirino x kyousuke were not blood related. Everyone of them would change there point of view. I have seen much arguments so far. And i have made my conclusion. Them returning to being normal siblings my ass.

@thommythecat. We have heard your opinion a lot on this topic. But knowing that you haven't read volume 12 yet. I would advice you to do it when the full translations are out. Let us see if you still make the same conclusion

But knowing your opinion. I doubt it would change. Even if the writter gave you the biggest hint possible.
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Old 2013-06-14, 08:55   Link #3505
tommythecat
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I'm sorry but that punch was hilarious with Kirino acting like a spoiled brat saying how she won, in that situation I don't fault Manami at all. Kirino poked the bear at it poked back it is a life lesson in either act like an adult or prepare yourself for the consequences.

It isn't really out of character either, she has a serious temper but she rarely brings it out because it breaks her facade of being the helpful grandma.

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Originally Posted by mayid View Post
I think people who deny the hidden incest plot. Who has a lot more hints. That you can't throw away just like that as a theorie. They have a problem with incest story's.

I know for sure that if kirino x kyousuke were not blood related. Everyone of them would change there point of view. I have seen much arguments so far. And i have made my conclusion. Them returning to being normal siblings my ass.

@thommythecat. We have heard your opinion a lot on this topic. But knowing that you haven't read volume 12 yet. I would advice you to do it when the full translations are out. Let us see if you still make the same conclusion

But knowing your opinion. I doubt it would change. Even if the writter gave you the biggest hint possible.
Look man I get it, you ship the incest route you see all the evidence in that light. That is how interpretations work with the absence of clear proof. The fact I haven't read the full translation is a problem but frankly it's the same for everyone else. A full translation will be far more telling than quick summaries of twice translated material.
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Old 2013-06-14, 08:57   Link #3506
Choroshi
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I think that they are going to have a romantic relationship in secret or wait until Kirino is an adult and they can live together. Who knows? I hope that they can be together in a future.

This is my opinion and this is how I want to interprete the ending.
This!

after all those things they had done, it'd be quite impossible to go back being normal siblings.. they should follow yosuga no sora route lol
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Old 2013-06-14, 08:58   Link #3507
Sakura_Tsuki
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Originally Posted by seangel92 View Post
Fuck Manami, I didn't like her since the first volume.
Same feelings here. You can say what you want. But the manipulative part of her.

And reading the recorded message is also a part were I get more frustrated about manami. Even if it is socially acceptable what she did. I still don't like it.

I can't stop thinking about how lonely she felt at that time. Poor Kirino

Last edited by Sakura_Tsuki; 2013-06-14 at 09:06. Reason: Words were not correct
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:02   Link #3508
Wilshere
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Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
I'm sorry but that punch was hilarious with Kirino acting like a spoiled brat saying how she won, in that situation I don't fault Manami at all. Kirino poked the bear at it poked back it is a life lesson in either act like an adult or prepare yourself for the consequences.

It isn't really out of character either, she has a serious temper but she rarely brings it out because it breaks her facade of being the helpful grandma.
I agree that she is a spoiled brat,she might have punched her because of the heat of the moment. 'Doesnt want to break her facade of being the helpful grandma' eh? And you wonder why we say that shes manipulative,she urged all girls to confess to Kyousuke in order not for Kirino have any chance. She is somewhat ok with any girl winning Kyousuke as long as it is not Kirino,it backfired and the result cannot be reversed. She basically hit the self-destruct button.
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:09   Link #3509
laruldan
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Why would he use his wish for a kiss??? I think if there is nothing behind it he couldve used it for maybe a friendly hug or something but not a KISS!!! Return to being ''Normal Siblings'' my *** .
That alone was still open to interpretation, IMO (I tended to side with tommythecat some time ago). With epilogue alone, it could be still plausible end as "weird siblings, but still no more that siblings" (and that "life consultation" could be interpreted as "Kirino going to scold Kyousuke in private too, and reaffirm some boundaries").
However, with the rest of volume - no way. Even as of chapter 4 their intention are very clear. And rest of volume only keeps on supporting it. Plus, it shows that they are not left alone in dealing with problems - they have their friends support.
Spoiler for chapter 6:
Sure, their road will be still bumpy, and I'd liked to see it in more details, but that really would not fit this series format.
With fuller picture about vol.12 content, I don't even hate those rumors about "bonus novel" vol.12 is already clear enough ☺

In the regard of "returning to normal relationship" one can easily guess, that it was not lie, but just not whole truth. When they started going out, nothing was said about time limit, right? Same story could be here yeah-yeah, but with another time limit, that Kyosuke conveniently forgot to mention ☺ They, sure, will need some time to prepare coming-out.
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:10   Link #3510
SigUp
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Part 1 Last Chapter

Spoiler for Part 1 Last Chapter:


EDIT: @tommythecat, why quick summaries of twice-translated material? It is quick-twice-translated material.
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:17   Link #3511
Wilshere
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Part 1 Last Chapter

Spoiler for Part 1 Last Chapter:


EDIT: @tommythecat, why quick summaries of twice-translated material? It is quick-twice-translated material.
Hmm things should get interesting from now on,looking forward to it,thx mate for the gd job
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:19   Link #3512
Densetsuhakai
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Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Part 1 Last Chapter

Spoiler for Part 1 Last Chapter:


EDIT: @tommythecat, why quick summaries of twice-translated material? It is quick-twice-translated material.
So it's Makabe-kun after all.I always thought that it would be pretty dumb if Mikagami and Sena get together.^^
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:20   Link #3513
tommythecat
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Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Part 1 Last Chapter

Spoiler for Part 1 Last Chapter:


EDIT: @tommythecat, why quick summaries of twice-translated material? It is quick-twice-translated material.
well I had the impression at least the earlier chapters you were summarizing some things from what I read. If that wasn't the case I apologize, you are working hard I'm not trying to diminish that
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:26   Link #3514
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Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
well I had the impression at least the earlier chapters you were summarizing some things from what I read. If that wasn't the case I apologize, you are working hard I'm not trying to diminish that
No offence taken.
To make it clear (as it's quite confusing heh), in Chapter 1 a good portion of the descriptions and most of the relatively unimportant conversation was summarized. In Chapter 2 perhaps 70% is fully (twice) translated, the other 30% included summaries of the descriptions. Of Chapter 3 only the part where Kuroneko and Kyousuke are caught by Hinata and Tamaki includes summaries and since chapter 4 there is no summarizing going on.
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:27   Link #3515
laruldan
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Fuck Manami, I didn't like her since the first volume.
Rather funny, considering whole story of "sibling love" could not have happened if not for her involvement.
3 years ago, if not for Manami involvement, if Kirino and Kyosuke ways was not taken apart, Kirino feeling could've just normally worn out. And she likely would not discover siscon eroge as source of references. Maybe even would not become otaku at all.
And even if Kirino feeling was still same, Kyousuke would not been able see her in romantic way.
And it finished this way thanks to Manami involvement too. If not for Manami (when she orchestrated vol.10's Kyousuke temporal-moving-out), Kyousuke confidence in himself would not have returned, and he likely won't have guts for confessing at time of vol.12.
Not sure if that was within her calculations, but no matter of hidden agenda, she definitely poured a lot of oil in Kirino and Kyousuke relationship.

Last edited by laruldan; 2013-06-14 at 10:12.
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:41   Link #3516
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- Playing eroge with my imouto, going to a date with my imouto, squabbling with my imouto, and the days of sleeping together.
- 'Make love with your imouto ♪'

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Old 2013-06-14, 09:42   Link #3517
KronosPlasma
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Originally Posted by Densetsuhakai View Post
No,he doesn't hate her. Manami is the voice of society in this series. But what gives her (the society) the right to judge over the siblings? Just because it isn't moral in the eyes of the most people? At least the other Characters are willing to accept their relationship. Manami is just the only one who doesn't accept it, so it kinda seems like everyone is against Manami (society).
Where you talking about Manami or Ayase when you said he doesn't hate her?
the society thing I get it just seem like no one cared there. Not like here in the real world were we having this talk all the time. I just felt their should have been more against them not just her. Well I guess that's because not meany people know about. That and the siblings know better not to talk so the author got that right

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Originally Posted by ExXentriK View Post
To my mind most of the hate is /a/ induced as it is where I see her the most represented that way. It doesn't change the fact that according to my personal opinion I can't help it but dislike Manami. I mean she's always plotting things behind Kyousuke's back(with Ayase for example), this just disturbs me and vol.11 just confirmed my doubts about her.
Yeah well to /a/ she a shit moralfag trying to stop muh incest.
how was she plotting with Ayase? all I recall was her saying Kyousuke and Ruri broke up.
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Originally Posted by dragon1412 View Post
well, in my cased, it's more like that her personality is having some problem, ever since vol 1, Kyousuke is too defenseless again her, which make her similar to his family members, true, her reason is as valid as everyone else, however, let's take Kirino and Kyousuke cold war as example, Manami is the person who partly responsible for the cause of that war, of course, it's not likely that she intent that to happen but more like she want them to become normal siblings, nothing wrong with that as well but the problem is that when the war happened and Manami is aware of it, she make no attempt to clean up her mess, or at least, mend their broken bonds, infact, she even shower Kirino with her idea, when did she have the right to barge in their relationship anyway. Second, she is considered manipulative because she have clear intent to do it, when Kirino make Kyousuke played eroge, she was worry about the prejudice of her brother, and she make him continue played to keep their bonds rather than maniplated him to love her, Manami is diffirent, she make Kyousuke into a normal people with clear intent, to be honest, what or who give her right to questioned his quality? more over , she interfere with someoneelse ego, which is an unacceptable act in term of psychology because it control a human life, of course, Kyousuke ego did return throughout the series as his ego is what make him Kyousuke. However, the fact that Manami influences Kyousuke ego to her intent is exist, which can be considered a moral issue which is far worse than Incest. And well her punch at vol 12 is just out of character, interpret that as you will.
I can only thing she didn't clear things up because she might have thought it would make things worse or scared both of them would hate her for it.
Didn't Kirino come to Manami to talk about her feelings in away bring her into the relationship? With the "making him normal thing" she said he is normal I don't see it as questioning his quality. Just speaking the truth plus she just a kid her self so I don't the she know much about psychology at the time.
I see the punch as her frustration of not getting though to them so she snapping or venting plus with Kirino taunting didn't help. Kyousuke taunting like that seemed out out character too.
You could say having him Continuing to play the games all the time is in it's own way manipulative


well the last thing I'll say on her is in the end she seeming still loved them both.
She never talks to the parents or a teacher she keeps in to her self. She didn't want to put them in that spotlight of society. So in that I can't hate her, she made mistakes like all the rest.


I hope my reply's/thoughts are clear not trying to piss people off just ... I guess I'm defending Manami thou I'm not really trying to. Eh, looking at her actions logically would that be it?

Last edited by KronosPlasma; 2013-06-14 at 09:53.
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:52   Link #3518
SigUp
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Originally Posted by KronosPlasma View Post
Didn't Kirino come to Manami to talk about her feelings in away bring her into the relationship? With the "making him normal thing" she said he is normal I don't see it as questioning his quality. Just speaking the truth plus she just a kid her self so I don't the she know much about psychology at the time.
I see the punch as her frustration of not getting though to them so she snapping or venting plus with Kirino taunting didn't help. Kyousuke taunting like that seemed out out character too.
You could say having him Continuing to play the games all the time is in it's own way manipulative
Kirino didn't come to Manami to talk about her feelings, she came to Manami because she wanted her old onii-chan back. It was Manami who confronted her with her feelings for Kyousuke. As for the punch, it was in my eyes not due to not getting through, because later on Manami said something like 'if it wasn't for Kirino, then everything would have turned out good'. So it was more like due to whatever she was intending had failed with Kirino and Kyousuke dating and then snapping after Kirino taunted her.
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:58   Link #3519
seangel92
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Manami wants to date with Kyosuke but Kirino was more fast and now Manami is angry, isn't she?
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Old 2013-06-14, 10:02   Link #3520
Wilshere
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Manami wants to date with Kyosuke but Kirino was more fast and now Manami is angry, isn't she?
If she knew Kirino's feelings back then,why didnt she confess to him back then knowing that he might had harbored feelings for her???
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