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Old 2013-06-14, 01:30   Link #28841
Tom Bombadil
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Where is google's "don't be evil" slogan now, I wonder?
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Old 2013-06-14, 05:15   Link #28842
ganbaru
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EU tries to persuade France to back U.S. free trade talks
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...95C1D920130613

Analysis: India is Asia's weakest link in QE-driven rout
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...95C1BM20130613
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Old 2013-06-14, 08:46   Link #28843
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
Where is google's "don't be evil" slogan now, I wonder?
What do you propose Google should do when it receives a National Security Letter or a subpeona? Refuse as a matter of principle, face a Federal indictment, lose, appeal, and then lose again in the Appeals Court?

If you don't like things like NSLs, then the PATRIOT Act needs to be revised or overturned. That's not Google's responsibility.
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:15   Link #28844
ganbaru
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Sebastien De La Cruz, 11, Sings National Anthem at NBA Finals, Sparks Racist Tweets
http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-...tweets-2013136
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Old 2013-06-14, 10:27   Link #28845
oompa loompa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post

Analysis: India is Asia's weakest link in QE-driven rout
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...95C1BM20130613
I'm beginning to really regret coming back to India for post grad.. The rate is at 57.45 as of today
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Old 2013-06-14, 11:08   Link #28846
Tom Bombadil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
What do you propose Google should do when it receives a National Security Letter or a subpeona? Refuse as a matter of principle, face a Federal indictment, lose, appeal, and then lose again in the Appeals Court?

If you don't like things like NSLs, then the PATRIOT Act needs to be revised or overturned. That's not Google's responsibility.
That's not what they said when they withdraw from China.
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Old 2013-06-14, 11:54   Link #28847
Sumeragi
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PRISM is not evil, so I don't see the problem.
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Old 2013-06-14, 12:19   Link #28848
ganbaru
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Snowden’s Leaks on China Could Affect Its Role in His Fate
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/15/wo...-his-fate.html
Quote:
“The idea is very tempting, but how do you do that, unless he defects,” said the person, who insisted on anonymity because of the diplomatic sensitivities in the case. “It all depends on his attitude.”
How much change than they keep him and extract all he know now than he seem to have something than they might want ? That's not like the guy could try to go the US embassy to get help...
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Old 2013-06-14, 13:11   Link #28849
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Snowden’s Leaks on China Could Affect Its Role in His Fate
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/15/wo...-his-fate.html

How much change than they keep him and extract all he know now than he seem to have something than they might want ? That's not like the guy could try to go the US embassy to get help...
Well here is a comment on NYT worth reading :

Quote:
The guy is a flipping two bit traitor. He took the NSA job after all of four years experience as a low level sys admin at the CIA intending to betray secrets three months later. Then he does his premediated defection to China with state secrets, specifically the ones of interest to them. He tells the gullible of the world that he is the IT superman capable of hacking anywhere anytime but he's a bottom feeding admin at script kiddie level as his overblown claims reveal.

Had this guy been for real, he could have gone to Switzerland where he worked before and doubtless has contacts. But instead he defects to the leading adversary in cyberwarfare. There is no conscience here, just cycnical manipulation. You had better believe that the China intelligence will get a full debreifing if that guy likes the exchange of C02 and Oxygen on a regular basis.

This is the first public defection in the age of Cyberwarfare. Make this bum a hero at you own risk.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-06-14, 13:23   Link #28850
ArchmageXin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
PRISM is not evil, so I don't see the problem.
PRISM is designed to spy on ALL Americans, how is that good? I don't need the government to snoop on me for no good reason.
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Old 2013-06-14, 13:38   Link #28851
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
PRISM is designed to spy on ALL Americans, how is that good? I don't need the government to snoop on me for no good reason.
Exactly how I know people are not understanding the issue correctly.
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Old 2013-06-14, 13:43   Link #28852
Terrestrial Dream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Well here is a comment on NYT worth reading :
There is two things I like to point out. One, I don't believe he told anyone in the world that he is IT superman. So far he only told what NSA has been doing, not their full operations and any vital information. Most people should know what his job and status.

Second, he was making somewhere around 120,000 a year. And I believe much of his family's work is related to the US government. Losing all of those are too much of sacrifice for a defection.
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Old 2013-06-14, 13:50   Link #28853
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
There is two things I like to point out. One, I don't believe he told anyone in the world that he is IT superman. So far he only told what NSA has been doing, not their full operations and any vital information. Most people should know what his job and status.
What I believe is that he probably copied alot more than what he told the reporters, it is just like a public advertisement to look for a covert buyer.

Quote:
Second, he was making somewhere around 120,000 a year. And I believe much of his family's work is related to the US government. Losing all of those are too much of sacrifice for a defection.
From what little I know from the black market, intelligence documents are worth more than $120k per piece. But buying them is like a bet and bidding war riskier than bidding for illegal arms; it is like insurance/investments in the white market.

And this intel is worth many times more than $120k. I think he is waiting for a buyer to approach him; he can't die by the hands of the Americans, the Chinese will score one hell of a coup, but he can't sell them to the Chinese because they will surely doublecross him.

His closest bet are the Russians. But Russian Intelligence is now so sparse that safehouses are little and listening stations are hard to contact. Then again, these documents are probably prelimary; NSA would probably have something deeper; I am willing to bet that they know ten times more about America's enemies than the CIA or FBI.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-06-14, 13:54   Link #28854
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
PRISM is designed to spy on ALL Americans, how is that good? I don't need the government to snoop on me for no good reason.
No, PRISM is designed to spy on foreigners. Americans only get caught in the net when they are communicating with foreigners. That's why I said the other day that if I lived outside the US, I would make sure I'm not storing my communications on servers belonging to US entities.
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Old 2013-06-14, 13:56   Link #28855
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
No, PRISM is designed to spy on foreigners. Americans only get caught in the net when they are communicating with foreigners. That's why I said the other day that if I lived outside the US, I would make sure I'm not storing my communications on servers belonging to US entities.
Don't use google?
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-06-14, 14:03   Link #28856
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Don't use google?
There are alternatives like DuckDuckGo, you know.
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Old 2013-06-14, 14:08   Link #28857
Terrestrial Dream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
What I believe is that he probably copied alot more than what he told the reporters, it is just like a public advertisement to look for a covert buyer.



From what little I know from the black market, intelligence documents are worth more than $120k per piece. But buying them is like a bet and bidding war riskier than bidding for illegal arms; it is like insurance/investments in the white market.

And this intel is worth many times more than $120k. I think he is waiting for a buyer to approach him; he can't die by the hands of the Americans, the Chinese will score one hell of a coup, but he can't sell them to the Chinese because they will surely doublecross him.



His closest bet are the Russians. But Russian Intelligence is now so sparse that safehouses are little and listening stations are hard to contact. Then again, these documents are probably prelimary; NSA would probably have something deeper; I am willing to bet that they know ten times more about America's enemies than the CIA or FBI.
I don't know if it is my naive nature regarding money, but I just think that someone making 120K would not sacrifice his comfortable livelihood for more money. You also have to consider his family that is going through this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
There are alternatives like DuckDuckGo, you know.
I tried it, didn't like it as much as Google.
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Old 2013-06-14, 14:09   Link #28858
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
There are alternatives like DuckDuckGo, you know.
You can change your own search engine, but what about the people around you? Google has become so widespread that everyone is using it; even if a fraction of people stop using it, many others will still do so.

Intelligence collection is often done indirectly, sometimes through people around you who are less informed, or are induced to give up information to surrepitious people who have taken an interest in you. Their actions will give you away even if you don't.

That is the problem - you can't change the mindset of the people around you; often which they are the most serious leaks than those people who don't like you.

IMO, we should just keep using and watch their next move. The PRISM issue is seriously overblown; the Utah factility is not yet up and running yet people are making a hoo-hah about it like it is a anti-Babel of mankind. Who knows; maybe Vexx and his co-workers are already near-completing Skynet and the Utah station is meant to house its central processing power - this probably explains why he isn't as frequent of a poster in this thread as before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
I don't know if it is my naive nature regarding money, but I just think that someone making 120K would not sacrifice his comfortable livelihood for more money. You also have to consider his family that is going through this.
Usually greedy people put money before anything else; if he is indeed one, he probably abandoned them when he could have bought a loli off human traffickers, then breed with her in Saudi Arabia or South America.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-06-14, 14:13   Link #28859
ArchmageXin
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Lets take Washington post here. Which we can assume is reasonable, non partisan source (at least on this subject)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...prism-to-date/


Quote:
The “targeting” rule may not protect Americans as much as it might seem. Last week’s revelation that the government used an obscure provision of the Patriot Act to obtain records of every phone call on Verizon’s network with a single court order suggests that the government is willing to adopt permissive interpretations of the law.

According to the Times, “FISA orders can range from inquiries about specific people to a broad sweep for intelligence, like logs of certain search terms.” In one case, an NSA agent “installed government-developed software on the company’s server and remained at the site for several weeks to download data to an agency laptop.” In other cases, the government has sought “real-time transmission of data, which companies send digitally.”

In its initial report on PRISM, The Washington Post said that NSA analysts use search queries “designed to produce at least 51 percent confidence in a target’s ‘foreignness.’ ” Training materials advise new analysts that “it’s nothing to worry about” if they accidentally collect U.S. content.

And even if the NSA is only collecting foreigners’ communications, that doesn’t rule out abusive surveillance. For example, the environmental nonprofit organization Greenpeace has been targeted for surveillance by the NSA in the past. The organization is based outside the United States, but it has many U.S. members who might not appreciate having their government spy on its activities.
So what assurances can we get this program will never turn its eyes on US Citizens? What happens if this program become adopted to hunt for domestic "criminals" as well? Just as Drones, once only meant for AQ overseas, are now being purchased in bulks by law enforcement?
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Last edited by Daniel E.; 2013-06-14 at 16:13.
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Old 2013-06-14, 15:12   Link #28860
Sumeragi
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I actually believe that action to be within the Fourth Amendment. Just because people take overexpanding view of what that amendment is supposed to be doesn't mean what the government is doing is evil.

Having a concern that there might be abuse (as in any human system) is one thing, immediatel labeling any supposed violation of an non-existent right is another.
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