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View Poll Results: Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 11 Rating
Perfect 10 5 8.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 15 25.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 26 43.33%
7 out of 10 : Good 11 18.33%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 5.00%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-06-18, 01:31   Link #121
jeroz
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considering that the text are all in japanese, i would give the benefit of the doubt to another person
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Old 2013-06-18, 02:05   Link #122
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the idea about kugel is dead, and striker do the show all this time is unlikely... it gives to many hints for that, and some ppl may already predicted this one.

if i was gen, i would definitely not using that route. it's best to make kugel into hideauze...

look at those follower he got, everybody worship him... why would he come back to the space when he could become a god there. with all those ancient technology and possibly chamber if he could take it over from ledo (maybe run some checkup or OS update, but actually rewrite all the program chamber has), he could conquer the entire planet. he need pinion for that purpose, since he could handle the ancient cannon and have the brain for that.

or maybe he really does infected with some disease, and in order to survive he need to become hideauze. hideauze could live even in space, it should have a great antibody or maybe immune to any disease, it's the superior form of human afterall... don't forget most ppl worship the hideauze as a sacred creature, if he could become that, it would definitely secured his spot as a god for that planet.
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Old 2013-06-18, 05:18   Link #123
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so Kugel exercised his reproduction rights with the WhaleSquids?
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Old 2013-06-18, 07:31   Link #124
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Originally Posted by Runa View Post
the idea about kugel is dead, and striker do the show all this time is unlikely... it gives to many hints for that, and some ppl may already predicted this one.
I must agree that it almost seems too obvious to be true, there is almost no subtlety. So I'm not quite sure that Kugel is definitely dead, but in that case there should be still something that is different from what it appears.

Anyway I'm not going to exclude that Kugel is dead either, a lot of times when I thought something was too obvious... it was actually true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Runa View Post
if i was gen, i would definitely not using that route. it's best to make kugel into hideauze...
That would be an interesting turn, but it needs to be well justified. Just how did Kugel became a Hideauze and why is Striker still following his orders? Like Kugel himself said, Hideauze are former humans and Chamber concluded that Hideauze and humans (with their machine calibers) cannot coexist.

And about that, why would Kugel renew Ledo's determination to exterminate Hideauze if he was becoming one?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Or they are after the fleet captain key and transmitter that Gargantia has.
We have seen that the technology from the Evolver's base is advanced but still primitive compared with the machine calibers' specs. Why would that (alleged) transmitter be more powerful than theirs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post
They do make a point of saying that with two machine calibers, they can now do this "awareness program". If it was truly just annihilation they were after, Striker can decimate Gargantia single-handed. Chamber already stated that he could, and if he can, Striker definitely can. So the question is, why does this program require two mechs? What does Striker (or Kugel) need Chamber (or Red) for?
Which is why I think Striker isn't 100% operational. It's been likely months since they founded their little cult on that fleet. With the immense power that a machine caliber possess at this point they should have already conquered the planet.
It seems to me that Kugel is fretting to get Ledo on his side even though he shouldn't have an absolute need of him.
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Old 2013-06-18, 07:53   Link #125
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
And about that, why would Kugel renew Ledo's determination to exterminate Hideauze if he was becoming one?
Self-preservation? The things a man would say to save his own ass
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Old 2013-06-18, 09:25   Link #126
rocket
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I must agree that it almost seems too obvious to be true, there is almost no subtlety. So I'm not quite sure that Kugel is definitely dead, but in that case there should be still something that is different from what it appears.

Anyway I'm not going to exclude that Kugel is dead either, a lot of times when I thought something was too obvious... it was actually true.
If Kugel's not dead I can't see how Ledo succeeds. Chamber's not going to let him mutiny against a superior officer, and without Chamber they have nothing that can fight Kugel...

Well I guess that's where the Pirate Queen and Ledo could come in and play it all Ewoks like with hacked-salvaged-technology, but I'm skeptical.
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Old 2013-06-18, 10:05   Link #127
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Cliché ending & next episodes but still good enough.
Well there are some quality drops.
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Old 2013-06-18, 10:05   Link #128
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lol, freaking cults.
Things seem super hopeless now.
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Old 2013-06-18, 12:32   Link #129
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by TheEroKing View Post
Self-preservation? The things a man would say to save his own ass
Wait... uh?

I mean... I was responding to Runa which is speculating that Kugel might be turning into a Hideauze or wanting to become one.

If that was true and if he wanted to preserve himself the last thing he would do is renew Ledo's determination to kill without a second thought what he has become (or what he will).
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Old 2013-06-18, 17:45   Link #130
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Which is why I think Striker isn't 100% operational. It's been likely months since they founded their little cult on that fleet. With the immense power that a machine caliber possess at this point they should have already conquered the planet.
It seems to me that Kugel is fretting to get Ledo on his side even though he shouldn't have an absolute need of him.
Well, the issue here with this idea that Kibbles needs Ledo and his machine caliber come from the episode itself. Kibble said he received his distress signal and had to travel across the planet to get to him (which believe it or not, does sort of make sense). There's no reason for him to say: "Pfft. I'll just take over the world all by myself instead of having another almost equally powerful ally to help me do it!"

The fact of the matter is, Kibbles is just one man. Even in a machine caliber he can't be everywhere at once. He's also just "one" man. Even in the greatest machine caliber mankind has ever seen, a single opponent against a numerical advantage always looks weak. "You may be really deadly, but there's still hundreds of us!" Having two machine calibers on the other hand... A duo of heavily-armed death robots from space aren't to be reckoned with. Having Ledo means that he can more swiftly and efficiently achieve his goals, and maintain his control. Efficiency is a big deal to Colonel Kibbles, space commando.

It also reinforces the idea of his cult, that they're space warriors protecting mankind from the threat of the space Hideauze in space. In reality, I can't think of a single good reason why Kibbles would NOT want Ledo to join him.
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Old 2013-06-18, 18:37   Link #131
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Originally Posted by Traece View Post
Well, the issue here with this idea that Kibbles needs Ledo and his machine caliber come from the episode itself. Kibble said he received his distress signal and had to travel across the planet to get to him (which believe it or not, does sort of make sense). There's no reason for him to say: "Pfft. I'll just take over the world all by myself instead of having another almost equally powerful ally to help me do it!"

The fact of the matter is, Kibbles is just one man. Even in a machine caliber he can't be everywhere at once. He's also just "one" man. Even in the greatest machine caliber mankind has ever seen, a single opponent against a numerical advantage always looks weak. "You may be really deadly, but there's still hundreds of us!" Having two machine calibers on the other hand... A duo of heavily-armed death robots from space aren't to be reckoned with. Having Ledo means that he can more swiftly and efficiently achieve his goals, and maintain his control. Efficiency is a big deal to Colonel Kibbles, space commando.

It also reinforces the idea of his cult, that they're space warriors protecting mankind from the threat of the space Hideauze in space. In reality, I can't think of a single good reason why Kibbles would NOT want Ledo to join him.
I was coming from the assumption that Kugel has been working on his project for a long while before knowing that Ledo was there too on that same planet.

From that standpoint it wouldn't make sense for Kugel to hold his conquest plans only because he has "just" one machine caliber. There is simply no comparison between the strength of a machine calibers and any weapon of the earthlings.

And you are wrong in your statement that he is one man. He is quite certainly not considering a whole fleet is revering him as a god and it's only logical that more people will follow him after each conquest. Dissidents can be incinerated faster than Ledo can say "zenmetsu".


Now if Kugel knew about Ledo for a while then you are right that before going on a world domination campaign he should have made a priority to contact him.

However in that case his behavior would be even more suspicious.
I mean in EP1 we have seen machine calibers moving around a gas giant planet in a very short amount of time. Exactly what prevented him from going directly to Ledo with Striker? It shouldn't have taken him more than a few hours even if he was on the opposite side of the planet. Why did he have to go with the whole fleet in tow?

Moreover if he knew Ledo was there that means he intercepted Chamber's distress signal. But if he could receive that distress signal, then why didn't he send one to Chamber?


In either case you are left with a big question: What was Kugel waiting for?
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Old 2013-06-18, 23:01   Link #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runa View Post
the idea about kugel is dead, and striker do the show all this time is unlikely... it gives to many hints for that, and some ppl may already predicted this one.

if i was gen, i would definitely not using that route. it's best to make kugel into hideauze...

look at those follower he got, everybody worship him... why would he come back to the space when he could become a god there. with all those ancient technology and possibly chamber if he could take it over from ledo (maybe run some checkup or OS update, but actually rewrite all the program chamber has), he could conquer the entire planet. he need pinion for that purpose, since he could handle the ancient cannon and have the brain for that.

or maybe he really does infected with some disease, and in order to survive he need to become hideauze. hideauze could live even in space, it should have a great antibody or maybe immune to any disease, it's the superior form of human afterall... don't forget most ppl worship the hideauze as a sacred creature, if he could become that, it would definitely secured his spot as a god for that planet.

If the whole disease thing is true and Striker is acting as Kugels life support system. Squid monster form aside, wouldn't that pretty much be like becoming a Hideauze in its own way? Striker would basically be his body.
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Old 2013-06-19, 01:08   Link #133
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Which is why I think Striker isn't 100% operational. It's been likely months since they founded their little cult on that fleet. With the immense power that a machine caliber possess at this point they should have already conquered the planet.
It seems to me that Kugel is fretting to get Ledo on his side even though he shouldn't have an absolute need of him.
He can't be everywhere at once. It takes time to reeducate people.

If he'd wanted to just replace Lukkage and become the Great Pirate Kugel, he'd just need a few minutes. If he wanted to lead the pirates away from their life of crime, he'd need to teach them honest trades, and do a lot of micromanagement so they don't backslide...

Here, he wants to completely change the way of life of a whole planet, make them behave in a way they'd never seen, never contemplated. It's going to take a lot of time.
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Old 2013-06-19, 03:00   Link #134
askara
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i wonder why he have to keep radio silence, i mean Hideauze and people in the planet cant intercept signal and only the alliance can. something is fishy i am leaning toward he actually died but gave striker permission to act and order to exterminate Hideauze by any mean? that or the occult is more than it seems
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Old 2013-06-19, 09:57   Link #135
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Originally Posted by Darkside View Post
If the whole disease thing is true and Striker is acting as Kugels life support system. Squid monster form aside, wouldn't that pretty much be like becoming a Hideauze in its own way? Striker would basically be his body.
Oh, that's nice!

Yet another twist on the "many ways a human can lose their humanity..."

Of course a disabled human in the GA must be disposed of, so that would also put Kugel in a delicate position!
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Old 2013-06-19, 10:56   Link #136
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Oh, that's nice!

Yet another twist on the "many ways a human can lose their humanity..."

Of course a disabled human in the GA must be disposed of, so that would also put Kugel in a delicate position!
Well now that I look at that point of view... in this case we have the excuse for Chamber to side with Ledo, even if Kugel REALLY is alive.
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Old 2013-06-19, 10:58   Link #137
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Originally Posted by rocket View Post
Oh, that's nice!

Yet another twist on the "many ways a human can lose their humanity..."

Of course a disabled human in the GA must be disposed of, so that would also put Kugel in a delicate position!

The two AI don't appear programmed for that. In their culture the sick get culled, not the injured. They seem to have advanced medicine as Chamber seems to convey such.

If Striker has that much power does that mean that there is a possibility that Galactic Alliance is ruled by some sort of cyborg... the leadership of the Alliance may be a fusion of man and machine.

Anyhow, it could also just be that Striker went rampant.

Kugel is alive. Striker would be programmed to follow Ledo otherwise, unless it operated under different rules than Chamber. He's in suspended animation or playing Wizard of Oz within an isolated area of his fleet.
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Old 2013-06-19, 11:47   Link #138
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Originally Posted by mechalord View Post
Kugel is alive. Striker would be programmed to follow Ledo otherwise
Either Striker or Chamber must go down the path of AI rebellion, unless Ledo obeys to Kugel till the end (extremely unlikely) or Ledo+Gargantia manage to win against Striker and Chamber combined which would be a huge asspull\deus ex machina no matter what they come up with to justify that.
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Old 2013-06-19, 11:54   Link #139
GreyZone
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Either Striker or Chamber must go down the path of AI rebellion, unless Ledo obeys to Kugel till the end (extremely unlikely) or Ledo+Gargantia manage to win against Striker and Chamber combined which would be a huge asspull\deus ex machina no matter what they come up with to justify that.
The answer is....

...lol, EMP
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Old 2013-06-19, 11:58   Link #140
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Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
The answer is....

...lol, EMP
EMP... that actually might be rather clever and interesting.

And I see one possible way it could be pulled off somewhat believably, given Pinion's new role...
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