AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Shin Sekai Yori

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-06-17, 11:24   Link #141
Moeterum
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
^No, it's true. It happens after they lose Maria & Mamoru, and if you pay attention to the timeline it's only a few months after Shun's death. If you think of the stress and the emotional mess they both are in that moment, having lost two more people whom they loved, it's not that surprising that they both end up thinking of the boy they both still love (even though their memories of him are blocked). Yes, it's messed up and unhealthy, but there you have it.

Note again this happens BEFORE the 12 year time skip, and for all we know it could've been a one-time occurrence. (If you ask me it probably was.)
Hard to imagine they'll keep doing it now that their son is going to be called Shun as well, unless they're both insane XD

In fact the fact they are thinking of calling their son Shun shows that they've FINALLY and completely moved on and got over their feelings for him.

That said I just love what the author was doing with this story.
Like Joss Whedon, he shows us that not everything in life goes like it does in the movies. We as readers and viewers WANTS Saki to be with Satoru but she's in love with someone else, and so does Satoru. Saki had this "Perfect moment in a perfect world" with Shun, she never had something like that with Satoru. They had their "moments" but it was always during times of crisis and despair. And in the end both Saki and Satoru had to settle for each other as romantic partners. That's how life goes. You don't always get to end up with the one you love most.
Moeterum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-17, 18:09   Link #142
YayPepsi
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
^No, it's true. It happens after they lose Maria & Mamoru, and if you pay attention to the timeline it's only a few months after Shun's death. If you think of the stress and the emotional mess they both are in that moment, having lost two more people whom they loved, it's not that surprising that they both end up thinking of the boy they both still love (even though their memories of him are blocked). Yes, it's messed up and unhealthy, but there you have it.

Note again this happens BEFORE the 12 year time skip, and for all we know it could've been a one-time occurrence. (If you ask me it probably was.)
Ahh, I see. Thanks for clearing that up. The way the person who was talking about it worded it made it sound like they imagine Shun EVERY time they have sex after they had already been married. The way you described it makes a lot more sense.
__________________
YayPepsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-17, 20:28   Link #143
kuromitsu
我、勝てり!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by YayPepsi View Post
Ahh, I see. Thanks for clearing that up. The way the person who was talking about it worded it made it sound like they imagine Shun EVERY time they have sex after they had already been married. The way you described it makes a lot more sense.
Uhh, no, that's definitely not the case. That would be pretty bad indeed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moeterum View Post
In fact the fact they are thinking of calling their son Shun shows that they've FINALLY and completely moved on and got over their feelings for him.
Well, as they both said (only Satoru in the anime, bah) their unresolved feelings for Shun were a huge emotional block for them that prevented them from moving on with their lives, including their relationship. After they both remember him they can finally deal with this and move on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moeterum View Post
We as readers and viewers WANTS Saki to be with Satoru
Oh, I don't know about that... a lot of fans I've seen are practically fixated on Shun and his "tragic bishounen" appeal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moeterum View Post
but she's in love with someone else, and so does Satoru. Saki had this "Perfect moment in a perfect world" with Shun, she never had something like that with Satoru.
She was 12 at that time, though, and it was almost literally the last moment when their world was still "perfect." There would be no chances for her to have anything like that with Satoru, even if she wanted to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moeterum View Post
They had their "moments" but it was always during times of crisis and despair.[ And in the end both Saki and Satoru had to settle for each other as romantic partners. That's how life goes. You don't always get to end up with the one you love most.
I guess that's one way of interpreting it, but on the other hand Shun died when they were 14 years old. If he lived things would've been different, but as things are, he died when he was still a child. So I'm not sure about the two of them "settling for" each other instead of the one they "love most." If their memories of Shun hadn't been tampered with, and they had been allowed to mourn him properly and then get on with their lives, I'm sure their relationship would've sailed more smoothly. They were already practically best friends (even as she was in love with Shun Saki thought of Satoru as the one she felt most at ease with, and she was jealous both ways when the boys got together). After losing Maria and Mamoru, they spent the remainder of their teenage years and their early adulthood as the only ones there for each other. What they have is a very deep and strong bond and love, even if it's not as deeply passionate or romantic as their first love was. Shun was their first love and that will always be special, but life goes on and I don't think we're supposed to view their later relationship as any sort of "compromise" or something secondary to what they felt for Shun when they were children.

(One of the things I like about SSY is the way it treats love as the fluid, often ambiguous, rarely simple thing it is, instead of putting purely romantic love on a pedestal and make that the purest and best motivation for everything.)
kuromitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-17, 20:41   Link #144
Moeterum
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Uhh, no, that's definitely not the case. That would be pretty bad indeed...


Well, as they both said (only Satoru in the anime, bah) their unresolved feelings for Shun were a huge emotional block for them that prevented them from moving on with their lives, including their relationship. After they both remember him they can finally deal with this and move on.


Oh, I don't know about that... a lot of fans I've seen are practically fixated on Shun and his "tragic bishounen" appeal.


She was 12 at that time, though, and it was almost literally the last moment when their world was still "perfect." There would be no chances for her to have anything like that with Satoru, even if she wanted to.


I guess that's one way of interpreting it, but on the other hand Shun died when they were 14 years old. If he lived things would've been different, but as things are, he died when he was still a child. So I'm not sure about the two of them "settling for" each other instead of the one they "love most." If their memories of Shun hadn't been tampered with, and they had been allowed to mourn him properly and then get on with their lives, I'm sure their relationship would've sailed more smoothly. They were already practically best friends (even as she was in love with Shun Saki thought of Satoru as the one she felt most at ease with, and she was jealous both ways when the boys got together). After losing Maria and Mamoru, they spent the remainder of their teenage years and their early adulthood as the only ones there for each other. What they have is a very deep and strong bond and love, even if it's not as deeply passionate or romantic as their first love was. Shun was their first love and that will always be special, but life goes on and I don't think we're supposed to view their later relationship as any sort of "compromise" or something secondary to what they felt for Shun when they were children.

(One of the things I like about SSY is the way it treats love as the fluid, often ambiguous, rarely simple thing it is, instead of putting purely romantic love on a pedestal and make that the purest and best motivation for everything.)
Yeah, I mean what is LOVE anyway? And what is the difference between being IN LOVE with someone to love a dear friend? That's another question that comes up a lot in a world like that of Shinsekai Yori. I'll say the difference is attraction and passion for one another. Like, Saki may love Maria and she had sex with her because... you know, Bonobos and stuff XD, but I don't think she passionately, sexually desired her, same goes with her and Satoru. But in a world like that of Shinsekai Yori is that even true anymore? I mean she DID loved her, and had sex with her. And same with Satoru. We can't say that she didn't loved them, so why shouldn't she be with them? And what's the difference THEN?! Do you get what I mean? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... It's so confusing



Also, kuromitsu, do you think Shun loved Satoru too? I mean why else would he agree to date him? He also seemed happy with him and was upset after he broke up with him. And if he did loved both Saki and Satoru, I wonder how he would have felt to see them together as a couple


"even if it's not as deeply passionate or romantic as their first love was."
To be fair though, we haven't seen how their relationship went AFTER they both remembered Shun. So maybe after getting over him they did developed a romantict, passionate relationship...?!
Moeterum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-20, 14:53   Link #145
kuromitsu
我、勝てり!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moeterum View Post
Yeah, I mean what is LOVE anyway? And what is the difference between being IN LOVE with someone to love a dear friend? That's another question that comes up a lot in a world like that of Shinsekai Yori. I'll say the difference is attraction and passion for one another. Like, Saki may love Maria and she had sex with her because... you know, Bonobos and stuff XD, but I don't think she passionately, sexually desired her, same goes with her and Satoru. But in a world like that of Shinsekai Yori is that even true anymore? I mean she DID loved her, and had sex with her. And same with Satoru. We can't say that she didn't loved them, so why shouldn't she be with them? And what's the difference THEN?! Do you get what I mean? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... It's so confusing
I always thought of Saki and Maria as very close, best friends who may love each other a lot, but in our world they would probably never cross that line. But in SSY due to the whole bonobo thing the lines are so blurred that it comes naturally to them. Saki sees no conflict in loving Maria and being lovers with her while also being in love with Shun. As for with Satoru, we don't see enough from their relationship to make its nature crystal clear, but I thought it's obvious that they love each other and care about each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moeterum View Post
Also, kuromitsu, do you think Shun loved Satoru too? I mean why else would he agree to date him? He also seemed happy with him and was upset after he broke up with him. And if he did loved both Saki and Satoru, I wonder how he would have felt to see them together as a couple
I think Shun loved Satoru - well, they all love each other so that's pretty much a given but I think he thought he was special, otherwise he wouldn't have decided to go out with him, after all. (It's not like he had to go out with someone, look at Mamoru who remained single while he was pining after Maria. And he was very beautiful so he probably had lots of other suitors.) We can never know for sure, of course, but Saki's narration says that his behavior didn't seem like he was just tolerating Satoru, so he probably accepted Satoru's feelings and returned to them to some degree. And it was painful for him to break up with Satoru (he only did it because he started to realize that something was wrong with him).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moeterum View Post
"even if it's not as deeply passionate or romantic as their first love was."
To be fair though, we haven't seen how their relationship went AFTER they both remembered Shun. So maybe after getting over him they did developed a romantict, passionate relationship...?!
Maybe, but I personally don't think so. Neither is the type, well, not anymore. I mean for one, they're adults with a different view and attitude to the world and life in general than when they were kids. Plus, their relationship with each other is based on different things than their feelings for Shun.
kuromitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-20, 16:05   Link #146
Moeterum
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
I think Shun loved Satoru - well, they all love each other so that's pretty much a given but I think he thought he was special, otherwise he wouldn't have decided to go out with him, after all. (It's not like he had to go out with someone, look at Mamoru who remained single while he was pining after Maria. And he was very beautiful so he probably had lots of other suitors.) We can never know for sure, of course, but Saki's narration says that his behavior didn't seem like he was just tolerating Satoru, so he probably accepted Satoru's feelings and returned to them to some degree. And it was painful for him to break up with Satoru (he only did it because he started to realize that something was wrong with him).


Maybe, but I personally don't think so. Neither is the type, well, not anymore. I mean for one, they're adults with a different view and attitude to the world and life in general than when they were kids. Plus, their relationship with each other is based on different things than their feelings for Shun.
1) Yeah I think he did too. And it wasn't just love it was a PASSIONATE love, won't you say? But then again why didn't he mentioned his name even ONCE before he died :/
Although, I guess that if Satoru was there instead of Saki Shun wouldn't have mentioned her either. I mean it's not like his last words for Satoru would have been "Hi Satoru, please tell Saki that I have ALWAYS loved her, would you?", Satoru: "Wait what about me?!", Shun: "Sorry, need to die now, bye bye"


2) Agreed. Shun was more of a crush, while what they have with each other is a different kind of love. It reminds me of something Catelyn Stark said in HBO's Game of Thrones... "You think that being with someone you just met just because she's exotic and exciting is a GOOD THING?! Me and your father weren't madly in love when we were forced to married. Love didn't just happen to us, we built it slowly over the years, brick by brick, stone by stone... It's not as exciting as secret passion in the woods, but it is stronger, it lasts longer".
Moeterum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-12-09, 13:21   Link #147
envy131
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
I have just finished watching the series and I read most of your post and kuromitsu's as well regarding Saki, Shun and Satoru relationship. I haven't read the novel yet but I just want to address my opinion when the anime is still fresh in my mind.

There is no doubt that all of the kids in Group One loved and cared for each other. However if you analyzed it further there are hints shown here and there that can bring this topic to a full circle. In the first half of the series it was made clear that Shun and Saki has feelings for each other. Shun always puts Saki needs ahead and showed concerned for her first above the rest. The night rowing scene when they were in a boat together are evidence enough. But then comes the 2 years time skip when the Bonobo conditioning were introduced - the Board of Education and the Ethics Committee prefers to condition children of same-sex relations to create a society of love like Bonobos which eases the tension and violent tendencies among the PK users without reproduction occurring until they reach the age that the Ethics Committee finds suitable for marriage. Heterosexual relationship were forbidden at their age hence there is no way for Shun to confront his feelings nor initiate a relationship with Saki, same goes for Saki as well. They can remain single just like what Mamoru did however I have several theories to why they didn't:-
1) They might have responded to their significant other at the time as to fulfill the void their missing from each other because of the only same-sex relations rule.
2) Either Saki might have paired up with Maria first and that triggered Shun to respond and returned Satoru's feelings.
3) Shun predicted his fate before the "mutant egg" incident and decided to distant himself in order not to hurt Saki's feelings in the future.
4) Perhaps being in a relationship with Satoru and conditioned himself with the Bonobo conditioning might prevent his Karma Demon from happening or helps it from surfacing too soon.

Shun even said when he broke up with Satoru he was "fed up of being his little doll." And Satoru did mentioned that he had to persuade Shun to be in a relationship with him. Why was it that Saki was the only one Shun stayed in contact with or you could say appeared in her dreams etc several times after his death? This proves that both of them have a deeper bond together compared to Shun's feelings for Satoru. And as time passed Shun might just take the relationship as it is and go along with it. But keep in mind that homosexual relationships are viewed no differently from normative-hetero relationships here, and to these bisexually-orientated people it might just as well be the same thing. It's a point made acute with the distinct lack of any standard couples in the school, or if there were any, their presence was so minimal I didn't notice. This goes to show how the Bonobos conditioning, and from what we've seen of the main characters we're finally witnessing a society that has been twisted by it. The openness to sexual orientation and intimacy shown by the students seem to stem from the ingrained conditioning.

In regards to Satoru, in my opinion and what my gut tells me he does have feelings for Saki but couldn't proceed to them due to his unresolved feelings for Shun after his memories of him were being tampered with. He wants to know what their relationship was and how he go about it once he knows the truth. In episode 16 Satoru actions showed he deeply cared for Saki and consoled her with affections that a boyfriend would console his girlfriend. It was very earnest and genuine. Yes, they did thought of some else during their intimate moment in the igloo but it is just like what kuromitsu said, Shun death happened several months ago and their lost memories only made things worst for them. They weren't given any time to grieve and some form of closure. So it was a given that the first person they will think about while under the stress and the emotional mess they both are in that moment would be the person they both love and cared for. But in the end I think Satoru knows Shun's true feelings that he truly loved Saki from the bottom of his heart and their feelings for each other were more deep and profound. Sadly it couldn't be realized due to the stupid rule and Shun's tragic fate.

In all honesty I think the experience of their journey ie: losing their beloved friends etc have taught them a valuable lesson to appreciate and look forward of the things that are presented in front of them while its still there (the most important thing in Saki's life is Satoru and this was proven in episode 24. In acting on her fear of being alone, Saki made a personal gamble for a better tomorrow in her life by saving Satoru from the psychobuster toxicity and destroyed it in the process). Theres only the two of them left in each others world and under normal circumstances there will definitely bound to have some sort of chemistry arise between the two. After everything they went through together its a given that his caring actions in the beginning will eventually turned into love that grows and intensify as time passes.

This could have been easier if the author would penned a moment between Saki and Satoru vocalize their feelings with each other.
envy131 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:30.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.