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Old 2013-06-22, 02:28   Link #1301
Somethindarker
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Originally Posted by kusabireika View Post
Probably still he is training from the words from him at volume 10 he said he will show him the terror of high class rating game once isse get his piece so I think he is the 1st one from high class rating game player to train if he said he will show him terror maybe he is training hard for rematch against issei that what I firmly believe
Yet again he's a prideful pure blood devil who doesn't know the first thing of hard work. His version of terror could just be him training for 15 minutes and calling it quits when he breaks his first sweat. Just kidding, I've liked Raiser ever since his mountain training with Issei hopefully he gets a level up.
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Old 2013-06-22, 02:39   Link #1302
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Originally Posted by kusabireika View Post
Probably still he is training from the words from him at volume 10 he said he will show him the terror of high class rating game once isse get his piece so I think he is the 1st one from high class rating game player to train if he said he will show him terror maybe he is training hard for rematch against issei that what I firmly believe
Maybe, but considering the pace of Ise's development ... I doubt that any training that Raiser does, would allow him to reach a level, where he would actually become a serious threat for Issei.

Let's not forget that Raiser is still only a pure blood high class Devil from the Phoenix clan, which makes him pretty strong, but Ise is a dragon / devil hybrid that has the existence of Ophis and Great Red within him.

In my opinion, no matter how hard Raiser trains, he won't be capable of becoming a threat to Ise, who's potential is a lot higher then Raiser's.

Last edited by Chris38; 2013-06-22 at 02:51.
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Old 2013-06-22, 02:48   Link #1303
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Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
Maybe, but considering the pace of Ise's development ... I doubt that any training that Raiser does, would allow him to reach a level, where he would actually become a serious threat for Issei.

Let's not forget that Raiser is still only a pure blood high class Devil from the Phoenix clan, which makes him pretty strong, but Ise is dragon / devil hybrid that has the existence of Ophis and Great Red within him.

In my opinion, no matter how hard Raiser trains, he won't be capable of becoming a threat to Ise, who's potential is a lot higher then Raisers.
True if the high class devi who doesn't train vs present rizer who do you think might win and let's not forget he got unused bishop he might get a strong female for his group lol
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Old 2013-06-22, 03:05   Link #1304
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Originally Posted by kusabireika View Post
True if the high class devi who doesn't train vs present rizer who do you think might win and let's not forget he got unused bishop he might get a strong female for his group lol
I don't understand your question. Raiser is a strong devil who has served his purpose in the story, his record as a devil is 8 wins 2 losses with those 2 losses coming because of politics. He was already a fairly strong devil before he met Issei now he's probably a little stronger so he'd be fine vs other teams but not against top 40 competition. Getting a bishop won't matter since traditionally they're support pieces. What Raisers strategy in games were, like what I'm guessing is what most teams use, is have his pieces duke it out and tire then have his queen finish the job. Raisers pieces as a whole were fairly weak in comparison to Rias' he has quantity but lacks quality.
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Old 2013-06-22, 03:20   Link #1305
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Originally Posted by Somethindarker View Post
I don't understand your question. Raiser is a strong devil who has served his purpose in the story, his record as a devil is 8 wins 2 losses with those 2 losses coming because of politics. He was already a fairly strong devil before he met Issei now he's probably a little stronger so he'd be fine vs other teams but not against top 40 competition. Getting a bishop won't matter since traditionally they're support pieces.
Sorry my bad but true on what you said about bishop though but remember anyone can be reborn as bishop look at gasper you might think he is a support but he has hidden skill and top with that he has sg, about rizer his trait is immortality right if he trains very long maybe he will good tech type king the same as sona team if he can't beat issei in power than he will beat on tech if issei doesn't reach his full development

Now that I think about it all Longinus are equal in power now even the boosted gear, divide dividing and regulus which mid lvl Longinus is equal now in top tier maybe the reason is that every current user especially those 3 have unique traits or trains hard to finish their goals. If that's true even low lvl Longinus can beat the higher tier Longinus depend on how they used err sorry if its bit confusing coz I notice that issei Longinus is mid tier still he can beat the ultimate Longinus tier in working hard and planning ahead

Edit: He could ask azrael if he can get artificial sacred gear for his team if he can :P knowing our azrael
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Old 2013-06-22, 03:32   Link #1306
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Where did this Raiser training thing come from? He spent months being a shut-in, and only spent a few days training with dragons to overcome his phobia. He didn't show any inclination to continue with the training after his problem was dealt with.

EDIT: The Longinus are not equal in power. Only BG and DD are equal among them.
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Old 2013-06-22, 03:36   Link #1307
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Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
Where did this Raiser training thing come from? He spent months being a shut-in, and only spent a few days training with dragons to overcome his phobia. He didn't show any inclination to continue with the training after his problem was dealt with.
from volume 10 it's said he will return at rating game and vol 13 short stories The Unressurected Phoenix the story explains about his fear of dragons and issei help him by overcoming his fear by training with tannim in his territory

Edit: Yes in the past but ajuka also mention that the current Longinus are having Longinus the example issei vs Cao Cao, mid tier boosted gear vs ultimate Longinus, in the past all power of Longinus is static also azrael also said in vol 15 that all Longinus are experience an evolution due to the user will and tenacity
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Old 2013-06-22, 03:38   Link #1308
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Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
Where did this Raiser training thing come from? He spent months being a shut-in, and only spent a few days training with dragons to overcome his phobia. He didn't show any inclination to continue with the training after his problem was dealt with.

EDIT: The Longinus are not equal in power. Not sure where you got that.
Mostly speculation but there a couple of lines where Raiser comments about how troublesome training is. Can't seem to remember where exactly I read them.
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Old 2013-06-22, 03:51   Link #1309
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Originally Posted by kusabireika View Post
from volume 10 it's said he will return at rating game and vol 13 short stories The Unressurected Phoenix the story explains about his fear of dragons and issei help him by overcoming his fear by training with tannim in his territory

Edit: Yes in the past but ajuka also mention that the current Longinus are having Longinus the example issei vs Cao Cao, mid tier boosted gear vs ultimate Longinus, in the past all power of Longinus is static also azrael also said in vol 15 that all Longinus are experience an evolution due to the user will and tenacity
Thats pretty much exactly what I said.

Issei helped him with his problem, but I can't find any quotes that mention him continuing the training thing afterwards. The Longinus aren't equal, and your quote doesn't even make sense. Your basically agreeing, but phrased like your disagreeing with irrelevent factoids. The Longinus weren't equal before, and the growth thing just makes it even more unpredictable.
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Old 2013-06-22, 03:57   Link #1310
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Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
Thats pretty much exactly what I said.

Issei helped him with his problem, but I can't find any quotes that mention him continuing the training thing afterwards. The Longinus aren't equal, and your quote doesn't even make sense. Your basically agreeing, but phrased like your disagreeing with irrelevent factoids. The Longinus weren't equal before, and the growth thing just makes it even more unpredictable.
Okay ... Well thanks for pointing out I will try to re-read again

I wonder what are the unanswer question in novel that haven't discuss I'm completely out of question, speculation and theory .....

I hope that future volume we will see agares I hope she has a dragon type of servant
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Old 2013-06-22, 04:05   Link #1311
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Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
Thats pretty much exactly what I said.

Issei helped him with his problem, but I can't find any quotes that mention him continuing the training thing afterwards. The Longinus aren't equal, and your quote doesn't even make sense. Your basically agreeing, but phrased like your disagreeing with irrelevent factoids. The Longinus weren't equal before, and the growth thing just makes it even more unpredictable.
That might be true but in a fight anything can happen someone who is overwhelmingly superior power wise might lost to tactics, luck or confidence. Look what happened in the Raiser rating game he was overwhelmingly superior on paper, had more manpower and experience but he lost most of his team. Sitri match too Sonas team waaaay better than anyone expected. Then there's CaoCao who got played against Issei in there 3rd fight.
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Old 2013-06-22, 04:21   Link #1312
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That might be true but in a fight anything can happen someone who is overwhelmingly superior power wise might lost to tactics, luck or confidence. Look what happened in the Raiser rating game he was overwhelmingly superior on paper, had more manpower and experience but he lost most of his team. Sitri match too Sonas team waaaay better than anyone expected. Then there's CaoCao who got played against Issei in there 3rd fight.
It's true that the user is the biggest factor, but thats not what I was disagreeing with.
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Old 2013-06-22, 06:24   Link #1313
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Originally Posted by Somethindarker View Post
Mostly speculation but there a couple of lines where Raiser comments about how troublesome training is. Can't seem to remember where exactly I read them.
It's either in volume 10 chapter 3 or the SS in volume 13. I believe it's former than the latter.
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Old 2013-06-30, 08:10   Link #1314
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IIRC in the lastest vol it didn't clarified the full capability of Ise dragonoid body.
All we know is that Ise body is in a unstable condition, we have yet to find out the different between his new dragonoid body and his devil body.
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Old 2013-07-01, 16:20   Link #1315
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Originally Posted by Somethindarker View Post
That might be true but in a fight anything can happen someone who is overwhelmingly superior power wise might lost to tactics, luck or confidence. Look what happened in the Raiser rating game he was overwhelmingly superior on paper, had more manpower and experience but he lost most of his team. Sitri match too Sonas team waaaay better than anyone expected. Then there's CaoCao who got played against Issei in there 3rd fight.
That is true, however you must point out that individually the only one who had exceptional power in Raiser's team is himself. The girls in his group serves more to his erotic taste rather than a need for battles. What ever happen to them anyway, not in a short story but presently with all that happen. Isabela strikes me the most of the Raiser team, wonder if her respect for Ise as an opponent is something more.

For Sona team, incredibly yes, they are much better than on paper. That is something abnormal for High Class Devil. Ravel mentioned that High Class Devils most don't and will not train they rather depend on their genetic talents and will trade their servants like one would trade on a video sport game. They are excellent at tactics. They fought evenly with Gremory group for a good while, but they still lost regardless. Also, if it were not for Ise giving pity for Saji thus allowing the fight to be prolonged for a while results could have been one sided. Ise would have not retired due to blood loss, rather he would continue to fight and no one on the Sitri group can fight against him. If Gremory and Sitri had a rematch, it could be definitely one sided. The numbers has change for both side, Rossweisse can single handy barrage an entire war zone thus destroying any attempts of surprise attacks and traps. Due to the maturity and experience factor of the members with mostly Ise throwing the ideals of friendship on the battlefield, Gremory team fights like a special ops squad rather than a team playing a game. Xenovia, once a power house now coupled that power house with the other abilities of Excalibur, its a done deal. Coupled with Gasper, Koneko, Rias and Akeno gaining power ups in particularly Rias and Akeno and maybe Koneko, there is a aspect of surprise there. Tactics can overcome power disadvantage, but for a team like the Gremory group they can make that statement into nothing for most enemies.



Enough about the rating games. What are everyone's thoughts on volume 17, Rossweisse volume? Anyone think that Rossweisse's sisters will appear in the volume?

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Old 2013-07-01, 17:36   Link #1316
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Enough about the rating games. What are everyone's thoughts on volume 17, Rossweisse volume? Anyone think that Rossweisse's sisters will appear in the volume?
I don't know, but all is possible in DxD Universe, I am sure that Rossweisse and Issei will improve their relationship to put her officially inside the harem, because she has not slept with Issei still, I expect that Issei save her family, although i dont know if will save them economically or maybe save them of a danger. hahahaha
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Old 2013-07-01, 18:15   Link #1317
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I don't know, but all is possible in DxD Universe, I am sure that Rossweisse and Issei will improve their relationship to put her officially inside the harem, because she has not slept with Issei still, I expect that Issei save her family, although i dont know if will save them economically or maybe save them of a danger. hahahaha
Its kind of hard to figure out the lore of Norse in High School DXD. If you ever saw the Rise of the Valkyries then you know there is a total of 9 Valkyries. It seems to suggest that there are many more Valkyries however in High School DXD. Some searching in the internet suggest that Rossweisse is the youngest of the 9 Valkyries. Rossweisse haven't mentioned she had a sibling, though she already stated that many of her fellow Valkyries looks down on her, mostly on part of Odin's lazy tendency and was given the title of Servant Girl. I feel for Rossweisse, you are the bodyguard of a God, the only thing you need to do is watch out for him and kill anyone to tries to get his head yet she has to do that and lectures him, care for his lifestyle (albeit even with her own money), and then gets insulted by her boss and her fellow Valkyries.

Hopefully she gets what she deserves, a nice life and a boyfriend (its most likely Ise, so she needs to be wary of Rias' backlash).
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Old 2013-07-01, 18:41   Link #1318
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That is true, however you must point out that individually the only one who had exceptional power in Raiser's team is himself. The girls in his group serves more to his erotic taste rather than a need for battles. What ever happen to them anyway, not in a short story but presently with all that happen. Isabela strikes me the most of the Raiser team, wonder if her respect for Ise as an opponent is something more.
They're strong in their own right. Raiser is 8-2 in the ratings games with his losses coming because of political issues. You have to look at it this way, all the main characters are incredibly strong look what happened when they took their mid-class promotion test. It wasn't even funny how easily they beat their opponents. Raiser is a high class devil with low to mid class servants.

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Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
For Sona team, incredibly yes, they are much better than on paper. That is something abnormal for High Class Devil. Ravel mentioned that High Class Devils most don't and will not train they rather depend on their genetic talents and will trade their servants like one would trade on a video sport game. They are excellent at tactics. They fought evenly with Gremory group for a good while, but they still lost regardless. Also, if it were not for Ise giving pity for Saji thus allowing the fight to be prolonged for a while results could have been one sided. Ise would have not retired due to blood loss, rather he would continue to fight and no one on the Sitri group can fight against him. If Gremory and Sitri had a rematch, it could be definitely one sided. The numbers has change for both side, Rossweisse can single handy barrage an entire war zone thus destroying any attempts of surprise attacks and traps. Due to the maturity and experience factor of the members with mostly Ise throwing the ideals of friendship on the battlefield, Gremory team fights like a special ops squad rather than a team playing a game. Xenovia, once a power house now coupled that power house with the other abilities of Excalibur, its a done deal. Coupled with Gasper, Koneko, Rias and Akeno gaining power ups in particularly Rias and Akeno and maybe Koneko, there is a aspect of surprise there. Tactics can overcome power disadvantage, but for a team like the Gremory group they can make that statement into nothing for most enemies.
I disagree, Sona with her team was able to secure 3rd place in the ratings game tourny they had, they are a powerful team with many member who have artificial sacred gears and a dragon king possessor. Sona is a strategic genius who studies and exploits weaknesses in teams no matter how small, I see if they do a rematch it will still be a Gremory victory but it won't be easy at all. Issei still couldn't control his power against Saji which is why he was afraid to finish him, even though the way I see it Issei passing out at the time he did was convenient a few seconds longer and he woulda passed out mid-fight and Sona woulda probably capitalized taking 1 or two more pieces with him.



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Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
Enough about the rating games. What are everyone's thoughts on volume 17, Rossweisse volume? Anyone think that Rossweisse's sisters will appear in the volume?
Um.. it's coming out next year, it'll be Ross focused, safe to assume that she'll end up being in Isseis harem because every time the author develops a girl they tend to fall for Issei. Even the author has poked fun of his own predictability in the past, he's working on it though. Ross has sisters? Where is it stated I haven't read the novels in a while and don't remember that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
Its kind of hard to figure out the lore of Norse in High School DXD. If you ever saw the Rise of the Valkyries then you know there is a total of 9 Valkyries. It seems to suggest that there are many more Valkyries however in High School DXD.
Wouldn't be the first time the author took liberties with the mythos, I mean Azazel and Lucifer are the same person in christian mythology, fallen angels ARE demons the list goes on, etc., Wouldn't be surprised if Valkyries are an entire army division of the north's battle potential.


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Some searching in the internet suggest that Rossweisse is the youngest of the 9 Valkyries. Rossweisse haven't mentioned she had a sibling, though she already stated that many of her fellow Valkyries looks down on her, mostly on part of Odin's lazy tendency and was given the title of Servant Girl. I feel for Rossweisse, you are the bodyguard of a God, the only thing you need to do is watch out for him and kill anyone to tries to get his head yet she has to do that and lectures him, care for his lifestyle (albeit even with her own money), and then gets insulted by her boss and her fellow Valkyries.

Hopefully she gets what she deserves, a nice life and a boyfriend (its most likely Ise, so she needs to be wary of Rias' backlash).
She was raised by her grandma because both her parents are warriors for the north, it's never been hinted at as far as I can tell that she has siblings but she is probably looked down on because of her age among the Valkyries who I'm guessing were all vying for her bodyguard assignment. Plus Odin practically gave her to Azazel and Rias so she can join her peerage, never outright stated, but in retrospect her joining Rias' group is a huuuge boost to the alliance of the north and christian factions. Yea Ross is a good girl who didn't deserve to be Odins foil.
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Old 2013-07-01, 19:26   Link #1319
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I disagree, Sona with her team was able to secure 3rd place in the ratings game tourny they had, they are a powerful team with many member who have artificial sacred gears and a dragon king possessor. Sona is a strategic genius who studies and exploits weaknesses in teams no matter how small, I see if they do a rematch it will still be a Gremory victory but it won't be easy at all. Issei still couldn't control his power against Saji which is why he was afraid to finish him, even though the way I see it Issei passing out at the time he did was convenient a few seconds longer and he woulda passed out mid-fight and Sona woulda probably capitalized taking 1 or two more pieces with him.
A situation where its a agree and disagree. I agree on your statement that Ise was afraid of killing Saji, however he himself was quite unaware of the threshold of protection that the rating game provide. The most likely outcome if Ise actually went full out would be an easy defeat of the Sitri. Ise is basically all bronze without brain, he didn't detect Saji's absorption line, while in the case with the other members of the Gremory group it would most likely not be the case. Even if they didn't detect it immediately they would have notice the effects before it forces Ise to retire. You also got to coupled the hard time with the Sitri group is because of the situation. The special rule of the match was "Don’t destroy the department store which has become the battlefield" given by Grayfia who was the arbiter of the match. Heavily favoring the Sitri group which favored tactics over power while Gremory is power over tactics. While I still find the reason justifiable because the Gremory group may be put in a situation where they mustn't destroy a battlefield, the match however was swinging against the Gremory group. Gremory Group's greatest strength is their offensive power (it been shown that the Gremory group's weakness is enemies with high tactics though it have bee shown with enemies that has the power to rival the Gremory, if in a serious battle where an enemy with very low power but great tactics were to fight against an opponent with seer amount of power with moderate tactics, the outcome would swing in the latter) and that was taken away from them.

Though I really hate and I really hate the moment of the "so called if situation", in this situation one must wonder if it was just a straight up battle of attrition, would the battle of Gremory group and Sitri be as heated as it was?

As for the rematch, it depends on situation. If the situation demands power be taken away to evaluate tactics than it would be a hard fight for the Gremory though I believe they can still win despite having Moderate level tactics and will be able to use their power in a way where it isn't overwhelming due to experience of actual combat more so than all the young Devils in my opinion. If, however, (hate using the if world so much) a situation where it is similar to a real battlefield then Gremory group wins decisively. We've Sitri group struggle the most in real combat situations where they are overwhelmed by either dirty tactics use by the Hero Brigade or just being overpowered like when they were in Kyoto (abeit without their Queen and King). A straight battle, no holds barred, with either the Gremory Group or Baal group would suffer in their defeat.

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Originally Posted by Somethindarker View Post
Um.. it's coming out next year, it'll be Ross focused, safe to assume that she'll end up being in Isseis harem because every time the author develops a girl they tend to fall for Issei. Even the author has poked fun of his own predictability in the past, he's working on it though. Ross has sisters? Where is it stated I haven't read the novels in a while and don't remember that.
I already that it is coming next year, I am not devoid of knowledge my friend. Just speculating, such as who would be the enemy, new comrades in arms, Norse society, technology, mythical creatures like that of Gramj or the whale like Lyngbak, and anything related to Norse mythology. The interest of Odin's son is a big factor, he has three which are of course Thor, Baldr, and Váli. Then there is relationship of the the Alliance and Norse like if both sides truly are friendly to each other as a whole or do Norse has factions that has detain for them. Then there is the characters' relationship in particular Ise and Thor since Ise was given a replica of the Mjolnir. Too many things that are very interesting.

Though I know of the present Vampire race being on stage, I am just more interest in Norse mythology and how it can be incorporated in the story.
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Old 2013-07-01, 21:29   Link #1320
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A situation where its a agree and disagree. I agree on your statement that Ise was afraid of killing Saji, however he himself was quite unaware of the threshold of protection that the rating game provide. The most likely outcome if Ise actually went full out would be an easy defeat of the Sitri. Ise is basically all bronze without brain, he didn't detect Saji's absorption line, while in the case with the other members of the Gremory group it would most likely not be the case. Even if they didn't detect it immediately they would have notice the effects before it forces Ise to retire. You also got to coupled the hard time with the Sitri group is because of the situation. The special rule of the match was "Don’t destroy the department store which has become the battlefield" given by Grayfia who was the arbiter of the match. Heavily favoring the Sitri group which favored tactics over power while Gremory is power over tactics. While I still find the reason justifiable because the Gremory group may be put in a situation where they mustn't destroy a battlefield, the match however was swinging against the Gremory group. Gremory Group's greatest strength is their offensive power (it been shown that the Gremory group's weakness is enemies with high tactics though it have bee shown with enemies that has the power to rival the Gremory, if in a serious battle where an enemy with very low power but great tactics were to fight against an opponent with seer amount of power with moderate tactics, the outcome would swing in the latter) and that was taken away from them.

Though I really hate and I really hate the moment of the "so called if situation", in this situation one must wonder if it was just a straight up battle of attrition, would the battle of Gremory group and Sitri be as heated as it was?

As for the rematch, it depends on situation. If the situation demands power be taken away to evaluate tactics than it would be a hard fight for the Gremory though I believe they can still win despite having Moderate level tactics and will be able to use their power in a way where it isn't overwhelming due to experience of actual combat more so than all the young Devils in my opinion. If, however, (hate using the if world so much) a situation where it is similar to a real battlefield then Gremory group wins decisively. We've Sitri group struggle the most in real combat situations where they are overwhelmed by either dirty tactics use by the Hero Brigade or just being overpowered like when they were in Kyoto (abeit without their Queen and King). A straight battle, no holds barred, with either the Gremory Group or Baal group would suffer in their defeat.
I was factoring in that Sonas peerage has added 2 new members in the mini grim reaper and the werewolf dude. From what we've seen so far of grim reapers low class reapers are comparable to middle class devils and so forth, so it's a possibility that she would be fairly powerful. The werewolf on the other hand I have no idea, from what I've read of the author and his patterns it's expected that Loup Garou is going to be comparable in strength to at least Sairorge without his Balance Breaker. But yea in a straight up group vs group no holds barred the edge is definitely in Rias' favor, but (I hate to compare her to Batman) if Sona has prep time(which in most cases rating games do), I'm sure she could sneak a victory 2 out of 10 times. In a theoretical battle Rias wins 9/10 times by my estimate. But right now there's no way to accurately measure since we don't know the extent of the power ups Sona's group had and how strong the new group members are.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
I already that it is coming next year, I am not devoid of knowledge my friend. Just speculating, such as who would be the enemy, new comrades in arms, Norse society, technology, mythical creatures like that of Gramj or the whale like Lyngbak, and anything related to Norse mythology. The interest of Odin's son is a big factor, he has three which are of course Thor, Baldr, and Váli. Then there is relationship of the the Alliance and Norse like if both sides truly are friendly to each other as a whole or do Norse has factions that has detain for them. Then there is the characters' relationship in particular Ise and Thor since Ise was given a replica of the Mjolnir. Too many things that are very interesting.

Though I know of the present Vampire race being on stage, I am just more interest in Norse mythology and how it can be incorporated in the story.
That's the thing it's waay too early to tell if anything the vampire arc is going to overlap with volume 17, I only say that because in most cases the pattern Ishibumi usually uses hasn't been followed. Most of the time it's
Beginning of arc>Skirmish>refelection>echi>in house drama>echi>character developement>echi>training>foreshadowing of next enemy>big battle>echi power up>fight over>echi>conclusion>rinse and repeat. Most of the time like with CaoCao or Khaos Brigade there are clues(that aren't necessarily hidden let's be honest Ishibumi is no Paluchniak or Ellis) spread around the story. For now we know that Vampires are a potential enemy, so I'm betting that the main enemy of the next volume will be the same as the one in vol.17. Considering the norse people of way back when they'd respect the christian faction as long as they are strong.
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Last edited by Somethindarker; 2013-07-01 at 21:33. Reason: Being too badass.
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