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Old 2013-06-20, 23:10   Link #5041
hakazee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
The "sages" aren't some kind of rank for magicians. All it means is that they have backdoor access to a global monitoring system. A sage could be a complete wimp magically.
you're right

Quote:
Raymond also claims that the Seven Sages were not an organization or affiliated with any of those criminal syndicates, rather, it
referred to seven people who had access to Hlidskjalf. None of the operators know where the main body of Hlidskjalf, nor are there
any specific similarities between those chosen to have access to it. The only commonality is the financial ability to control such
advanced technology, though that could be done even by a middle-class worker in the States or Japan.
they're just the lucky ones who happen to be sage
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Old 2013-06-20, 23:24   Link #5042
kagato3
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Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
Ah. Sorry about that, but still I think that is slower than Tatsuya's casting speed for various reasons. First, Miyuki's casting speed using a school-grade CAD was a little more than 0.25 seconds and I think we can assume that Tatsuya is just as fast with his Decomposition, especially with his own specialized CAD. Second, Decomposition is his BS magic so he should be especially fast with it. Third, Decomposition is composed of five steps so he can use Flash Cast to cast it instantaneously. Fourth, during his confrontation with Maya he successfully neutralized her magic despite the fact that she had a head start in casting.
It is unlikely that it is slower . That .25 seconds is doing what amounts to only the most simple of tasks not a complex spell and nothing points to Miyuki being a better mage then Maya. Also I don't think we have been given a clear idea how fast he is at Decomposition as everytime he has used it there hasn't been anything that requires it to be a split second cast (he didn't use it in the fight with Maya He basicly only used a part of it to prevent Metor Line from effecting him as Meteor Line operates by indirectly affecting the structural information of an enclosed space, where as Tatsuya’s ability is to directly interfere with structural information.) It is also unclear but Maya may also be a BS mage as it is stated that she has ‘distribution of light’ as her innate magic. It is flat out stated that Metor Line only weakness is direct interferance of structural information (only one of the steps in Decomposition) and that is why Tatsuya could negate it after it was activated .
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Old 2013-06-20, 23:39   Link #5043
Jirachier
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Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
Maya's magic is a lot like Ancient Magic in the way it uses light as a medium and the fact that it takes a long time to cast. Three seconds, which might as well be forever in the heat of combat. Comparing it to Decomposition, it's a hell of a lot slower, but it has two advantages. The first is that once successfully cast it moves at the speed of light so there's no time to react. The second is that it is impossible to block in the first place even the Juumonji's Phalanx can't block it. Decomposition is easier and faster to use, but Meteor Line is more absolute as a finishing blow.
Um the only advantage Meteor Line has over Decomposition is that it affects a different set of targets that Decomposition has a hard time against like Phalanx.
For the speed of light, the way it works is like this:
First Maya casts Meteor Line in 0.3 seconds then the light in the are moves at the speed of light and skewer the enemy, on the other hand Tatsuya's Decomposition doesn't use ANY medium, it's just cast and then bam you're hit so you MUST either block him while he's casting or be a very difficult target to pinpoint because the moment he finishes casting and you're in his line of fire it's over.
And really Decomposition is the ultimate finishing blow, when it hits you that's it you're completely decomposed there is no "maybe the target is still alive/intact", tatsuya even has to do more complicated casting to restrict his ability from completely destroying human targets sometimes and only penetrate their body in one area.
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Old 2013-06-21, 21:27   Link #5044
CatRules
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Any of you think that there will be an Arc that takes place outside Japan?

I think with Tatsuya's enemies being international terrorists and criminals, there could be a time that Tat may have to leave Japan to attack them.

With the currently existed info, I think Germany may be one of the choices because not only Rozen, which is an important organization in magical technology, is originated there, some characters also have German ancestors (Erika, Leo, the cafe's owner)

Another country could be USNA. There are Lina, Remon Sage Clark, Blanch, and Maximillion(another important CAD manufacturer) there.


Plus it will be very boring if the story end without the main character going somewhere outside Japan. Why would he(author) create the whole Mahouka world and only use Japan?
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Old 2013-06-21, 21:59   Link #5045
blackwhite67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
It is unlikely that it is slower . That .25 seconds is doing what amounts to only the most simple of tasks not a complex spell and nothing points to Miyuki being a better mage then Maya. Also I don't think we have been given a clear idea how fast he is at Decomposition as everytime he has used it there hasn't been anything that requires it to be a split second cast (he didn't use it in the fight with Maya He basicly only used a part of it to prevent Metor Line from effecting him as Meteor Line operates by indirectly affecting the structural information of an enclosed space, where as Tatsuya’s ability is to directly interfere with structural information.) It is also unclear but Maya may also be a BS mage as it is stated that she has ‘distribution of light’ as her innate magic. It is flat out stated that Metor Line only weakness is direct interferance of structural information (only one of the steps in Decomposition) and that is why Tatsuya could negate it after it was activated .
Tatsuya is a BS magician so his Decomposition should be pretty fast and he still has Flash Cast which Decomposition falls under so he certainly has the upper hand in terms of casting speed. I suppose a 0.3 second window isn't something many magicians can take advantage of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jirachier View Post
Um the only advantage Meteor Line has over Decomposition is that it affects a different set of targets that Decomposition has a hard time against like Phalanx.
For the speed of light, the way it works is like this:
First Maya casts Meteor Line in 0.3 seconds then the light in the are moves at the speed of light and skewer the enemy, on the other hand Tatsuya's Decomposition doesn't use ANY medium, it's just cast and then bam you're hit so you MUST either block him while he's casting or be a very difficult target to pinpoint because the moment he finishes casting and you're in his line of fire it's over.
And really Decomposition is the ultimate finishing blow, when it hits you that's it you're completely decomposed there is no "maybe the target is still alive/intact", tatsuya even has to do more complicated casting to restrict his ability from completely destroying human targets sometimes and only penetrate their body in one area.
As you said, Decomposition can be blocked by Juumonji's Phalanx and there are countermeasures to prevent targeting as in the case of Lina's Parade. However, Meteor Line cannot be blocked by anything, including Phalanx, and in the case of Parade it wouldn't matter as it does not require locating information bodies, but targeting the physical coordinates of the target. Besides, I doubt that the light of Meteor Line has to be focused in any way so it should be possible to use it as a ray to completely annihilate a target.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatRules View Post
Any of you think that there will be an Arc that takes place outside Japan?

I think with Tatsuya's enemies being international terrorists and criminals, there could be a time that Tat may have to leave Japan to attack them.

With the currently existed info, I think Germany may be one of the choices because not only Rozen, which is an important organization in magical technology, is originated there, some characters also have German ancestors (Erika, Leo, the cafe's owner)

Another country could be USNA. There are Lina, Remon Sage Clark, Blanch, and Maximillion(another important CAD manufacturer) there.


Plus it will be very boring if the story end without the main character going somewhere outside Japan. Why would he(author) create the whole Mahouka world and only use Japan?
I also hope that Tatsuya can go on a badass adventure outside of Japan, but I just don't see how that'll be possible considering that he's an invaluable military asset so Japan will never let him leave. Maybe one of his friends will be kidnapped and he'll escape to go on a rescue mission?
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Old 2013-06-21, 23:03   Link #5046
hakazee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatRules View Post
Any of you think that there will be an Arc that takes place outside Japan?

I think with Tatsuya's enemies being international terrorists and criminals, there could be a time that Tat may have to leave Japan to attack them.

With the currently existed info, I think Germany may be one of the choices because not only Rozen, which is an important organization in magical technology, is originated there, some characters also have German ancestors (Erika, Leo, the cafe's owner)

Another country could be USNA. There are Lina, Remon Sage Clark, Blanch, and Maximillion(another important CAD manufacturer) there.


Plus it will be very boring if the story end without the main character going somewhere outside Japan. Why would he(author) create the whole Mahouka world and only use Japan?
Spoiler for world map:


there is world map in volume ten. maybe he will go to one of the existing state. i wonder what happen with Australia
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Old 2013-06-22, 02:27   Link #5047
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Just a little chit chat about the map: well I understand is fictional and all, but its kind of difficult for think Panama, Colombia and Chile will joint with South Pacific Latin American, its just historical adversaries since hundreds of years like Chile and Argentina dont get along Colombians and Venezuela the same, we tolerate between us but not to the point of being one country (I am Costa Rican), geography support their borders and about Panama is really hard to accept US will leave like nothing the canal dominance, even now recently a China company got permission to built $40 billions bigger trans continental water canal in Nicaragua
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Old 2013-06-22, 03:37   Link #5048
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Originally Posted by Chimurry View Post
Just a little chit chat about the map: well I understand is fictional and all, but its kind of difficult for think Panama, Colombia and Chile will joint with South Pacific Latin American, its just historical adversaries since hundreds of years like Chile and Argentina dont get along Colombians and Venezuela the same, we tolerate between us but not to the point of being one country (I am Costa Rican), geography support their borders and about Panama is really hard to accept US will leave like nothing the canal dominance, even now recently a China company got permission to built $40 billions bigger trans continental water canal in Nicaragua
This map only put emphasis on unions and leading world powers ...

Quote:
Russia reabsorbed Ukraine and Belarus into the New Soviet Union (ShinSoRen); China governed over the northern parts of Burma, Vietnam, and Laos as well as the Korean peninsula through the Great Asia Alliance (Asian Alliance); India and Iran devoured various countries in central Asia to construct the Indo-Persia Union; the USA absorbed Canada and Mexico to fuse all of North America into one nation (USNA); the EU split into eastern and western parts; half of the various countries of Africa dissolved; in South America, aside from Brazil, the region was divided into small countries where governments did not have much reach beyond their own location.
As for parade one thing is for certain: this magic don't block anything, it missdirect magic. It seems to distort connection between information body and its eidos preventing any kind of magic manipulation(alternativly it can just decive all senses, summary description is not really that accurate). In such case structure manipulation meteor line uses might be "evaded" as well although light itself by all means will "iluminate" the information body

Last edited by Oxide; 2013-06-22 at 04:07.
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Old 2013-06-22, 05:26   Link #5049
hakazee
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Originally Posted by Oxide View Post
This map only put emphasis on unions and leading world powers ...



As for parade one thing is for certain: this magic don't block anything, it missdirect magic. It seems to distort connection between information body and its eidos preventing any kind of magic manipulation(alternativly it can just decive all senses, summary description is not really that accurate). In such case structure manipulation meteor line uses might be "evaded" as well although light itself by all means will "iluminate" the information body
in the fight with tatsuya, does she misdirect tat's magic ?
actually i think parade is illusion
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Old 2013-06-22, 06:10   Link #5050
Jirachier
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Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
As you said, Decomposition can be blocked by Juumonji's Phalanx and there are countermeasures to prevent targeting as in the case of Lina's Parade. However, Meteor Line cannot be blocked by anything, including Phalanx, and in the case of Parade it wouldn't matter as it does not require locating information bodies, but targeting the physical coordinates of the target. Besides, I doubt that the light of Meteor Line has to be focused in any way so it should be possible to use it as a ray to completely annihilate a target.
Just like how Meteor Line has only one counter which is Decomposition Magic, Decomposition only has 2 counters("Hiding" the information body (Parade and co) or Spam successive spells so it will be busy destroying them one after the other like Phalanx)
The author just made it seems like there is a lot of counters to Tatsuya because somehow everytime he has to fight someone his opponent just happens to have specifically one of these two things(which is really irritating, there is no way such bad luck is possible).
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Old 2013-06-22, 06:48   Link #5051
malason13
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Originally Posted by Oxide View Post
This map only put emphasis on unions and leading world powers ...



As for parade one thing is for certain: this magic don't block anything, it missdirect magic. It seems to distort connection between information body and its eidos preventing any kind of magic manipulation(alternativly it can just decive all senses, summary description is not really that accurate). In such case structure manipulation meteor line uses might be "evaded" as well although light itself by all means will "iluminate" the information body
Then what happened to the ASEAN?
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Old 2013-06-22, 06:57   Link #5052
Oxide
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Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
in the fight with tatsuya, does she misdirect tat's magic ?
actually i think parade is illusion
It is possible that that tatsuya actualy aimed at illusion back then but thats not the reason magic didnt work. Like it took place during yokohama incident such illusionary information bodies are still affected by magic (locust attacking helicopter for example).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jirachier View Post
The author just made it seems like there is a lot of counters to Tatsuya because somehow everytime he has to fight someone his opponent just happens to have specifically one of these two things(which is really irritating, there is no way such bad luck is possible).
interesting question: if "bad luck" reapeat itself over and over can it still be called luck or actualy someone manipulates the ods using powerful tool known as reason ? On the other hand ability to win everytime also does not come from luck but from ability to do so.

This just show that while concept itself can make you sheet ur pants it follows certain rules and principles that are exploitable ... Tatsuya kind of do it all the time so far ... Fact that author actualy describes magic give a lot of depth and makes things a lot more interesting but at the same time this can be used against him. I don't belive he is unaware of that ... so i belive that before he decides to explain something, he is damn sure it is consistent with everything he has written so far

Last edited by Oxide; 2013-06-22 at 07:30.
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Old 2013-06-22, 07:10   Link #5053
hakazee
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Originally Posted by malason13 View Post
Then what happened to the ASEAN?
still waiting for someone to translate the Map

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Originally Posted by Oxide View Post
It is possible that that tatsuya actualy aimed at illusion back then but thats not the reason magic didnt work. Like it took place during yokohama incident such illusionary information bodies are still affected by magic (locust attacking helicopter for example).
so actually what happen in the Fight between Lina and Tats ?


Quote:
Late that night, Tatsuya has Miyuki call Mayo. He requests that she give him some details on the Kudou Family magic “Parade,” (he
asks her because she was taught by Kudou Retsu) which he believes is what the golden-eyed magician used. Parade is a magic which
writes coordinates into a false body, which essentially makes it a superficial duplicate that he could not even differentiate between
through the Idea. Because of that, any attacks he uses won't work unless they hit the caster. He also receives permission to contact
Kazama.
if the summary correct, then parade should be illusion magic



edited
you said summary description is not really that accurate, then where did you get the information about Parade ?

Last edited by hakazee; 2013-06-22 at 07:26.
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Old 2013-06-22, 07:36   Link #5054
malason13
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I see so the map still isn't translated. But still it is good news my country is still free. and not part of the Asian Alliance.
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Old 2013-06-22, 08:31   Link #5055
Oxide
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Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
if the summary correct, then parade should be illusion magic

you said summary description is not really that accurate, then where did you get the information about Parade ?
I'm not sure such brach of magic exist, but relating to important matters it is my mistake. I meant to say it was not her body double but actual body with changed apperence(though both are technically illusions).

As for inaccuracy ... well ... according to summaries this magic sometimes works against Tatsuya sometimes not, she also seem to use it as self cast as well as body double ... i'm not saying it is wrong ... just significant details for discusion are not there. I also don't have any alternative source ... moreover my martian is better than my jp
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Old 2013-06-22, 09:19   Link #5056
hakazee
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Originally Posted by Oxide View Post
I'm not sure such brach of magic exist, but relating to important matters it is my mistake. I meant to say it was not her body double but actual body with changed apperence(though both are technically illusions).

As for inaccuracy ... well ... according to summaries this magic sometimes works against Tatsuya sometimes not, she also seem to use it as self cast as well as body double ... i'm not saying it is wrong ... just significant details for discusion are not there. I also don't have any alternative source ... moreover my martian is better than my jp
then we should wait for ln translation because we don't have other sources
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Old 2013-06-22, 09:46   Link #5057
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then we should wait for ln translation because we don't have other sources
general mechanic is described i just can't explain it in every situation >.>
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Old 2013-06-22, 11:49   Link #5058
blackwhite67
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Originally Posted by Oxide View Post
general mechanic is described i just can't explain it in every situation >.>
It's like this. Look at these two illustrations from volume 9.



These two scenes happened in the same battle. Note that in the first Lina's in disguise super saiyan and all. Then in the second she's reverted to her real appearance. I doubt she had the leisure of removing wigs and contacts in the heat of battle so this proves that Parade alters physical appearance. So it is an illusion magic.

The Web Arc summary describes Parade as a computer shortcut that doesn't take you where it should. For a spell to work, magicians must locate the target's information body. They do this through visual confirmation and physical disguises won't hide your information body. However, Parade not only alters your physical appearance, but also creates a fake information body to accompany it. So that when a magician attempts to locate you're information body, he'll only get the fake one made by Parade and since it's not your actual information body the spell won't affect you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxide View Post
This map only put emphasis on unions and leading world powers ...



As for parade one thing is for certain: this magic don't block anything, it missdirect magic. It seems to distort connection between information body and its eidos preventing any kind of magic manipulation(alternativly it can just decive all senses, summary description is not really that accurate). In such case structure manipulation meteor line uses might be "evaded" as well although light itself by all means will "iluminate" the information body
Parade wouldn't protect Lina from Meteor Line because Meteor Line uses light as a medium. Parade is an illusion magic that prevents targeting by by fooling a magician's senses. It won't fool a spell itself. For instance, if you cast a spell on a rock to throw it at someone using Parade, it'll still hit him.

Last edited by blackwhite67; 2013-06-22 at 12:00.
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Old 2013-06-22, 14:18   Link #5059
Oxide
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Parade wouldn't protect Lina from Meteor Line because Meteor Line uses light as a medium. Parade is an illusion magic that prevents targeting by by fooling a magician's senses. It won't fool a spell itself. For instance, if you cast a spell on a rock to throw it at someone using Parade, it'll still hit him.
Guess we will have to see, but if that magic is just simple sensory type interference it should be easly countered by gram demolition(at least in kudou/shields version of magic) ... magic direcly aplied to object rather than information body, when you look at it resonance and phantom blow also dont act on information body ...

Last edited by Oxide; 2013-06-22 at 15:34.
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Old 2013-06-22, 17:30   Link #5060
Flere821
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Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
Spoiler for world map:


there is world map in volume ten. maybe he will go to one of the existing state. i wonder what happen with Australia
Spoiler for Quick Translation:
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