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Old 2013-06-23, 18:38   Link #1641
chaos_alfa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
But that's the thing, it wasn't a lie.
It was lie because he was there to protect Aladdin not Kouha.

Last edited by chaos_alfa; 2013-06-24 at 03:24.
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Old 2013-06-23, 18:43   Link #1642
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by chaos_alfa View Post
It was lie because he was there to protect Aladin not Kouen.
What are you talking about? Aladdin wasn't even there when Alibaba began fighting the Black Djinns. He got there later.

Alibaba went there to fight the Black Djinns and protect whoever the Djinns where attacking, Kouha included. What he told Kohen wasn't a lie.
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Old 2013-06-23, 19:23   Link #1643
shalala
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Why would Alibaba be looking down on Kohen? What reason would be have to do so?
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Old 2013-06-23, 19:59   Link #1644
Kazu-kun
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Why would Alibaba be looking down on Kohen? What reason would be have to do so?
No reason at all imo. He wasn't do it that anyway as far as I can tell. I really don't get that scene.
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Old 2013-06-23, 20:39   Link #1645
shalala
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
No reason at all imo. He wasn't do it that anyway as far as I can tell. I really don't get that scene.
Mis-tranlation maybe I guess. On a plus side all of Kohen's Djinns will be coloured bluee in the anime. Providing they follow though with this arc and don't change anything like they did with the season.
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Old 2013-06-23, 20:43   Link #1646
Tempest35
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It's possible that:

Kouen: "Are you saying that if not for you, that I would have lost my brother like you lost your own kingdom? Because I was not 'strong enough'? Know your place, homeless prince - we are light-years apart from each other. You don't get to look down on me."
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Old 2013-06-23, 21:13   Link #1647
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
It's possible that:

Kouen: "Are you saying that if not for you, that I would have lost my brother like you lost your own kingdom? Because I was not 'strong enough'? Know your place, homeless prince - we are light-years apart from each other. You don't get to look down on me."
That's a good interpretation of Kouen's perspective. However, when Alibaba began fighting the Black Djinns, Kouen wasn't there, so not matter how powerful he is, Kouha might have died anyway if Alibaba didn't intervene. Alibaba knows this so he had no reason to feel ashamed. That's why his reaction puzzles me so much.
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Old 2013-06-24, 00:08   Link #1648
Rainrir
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It was a lie, since Alibaba was there on Aladdin's "orders", Kouha really is not the reason he is there. That Kouha was saved was merely incidental, but Alibaba twisted the words so that it seemed like that's what he wanted to do. Alibaba told this lie so he can save his skin here.

What Kouen basically meant is that Ali's little tricks do not work on him, he had all the cards and he could have still offed him if he wanted to, but choose not to. Alibaba "looked down" on Kouen because Alibaba thought Ali thinks Kouen is some kind of ingrate that can only be stopped by playing such tricks, that Ali thinks he can address/bargain with Kouen like he fellow ruler and that thinking that Kouen can be intimidated into backing down.

Derp, Morga is dead. There goes the redemption thing. It is still not time for a final boss yet...so I bet some thing else will happen. Considering Aladdin's power level is kinda absurb now, could it be that Aladdin be the one to stop this, but is disabled/nerfed for some part of the storyline? I mean, that would be an easy way to balance the "challenge rating" for the rest of the manga.

On the other hand, I see where the snake locks come from now...and one of the Djinns got a gender-lift

Last edited by Rainrir; 2013-06-24 at 00:19.
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Old 2013-06-24, 00:24   Link #1649
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Rainrir View Post
It was a lie, since Alibaba was there on Aladdin's "orders"
Like hell he was following orders from Aladdin. He went there on his own accord. He even said he couldn't forgive those who treated people like trash and he would fight for that reason. And yes, it was incidental that Kouha was there, but Alibaba fought to protect those people because he decided to so on his own, so he wasn't lying.
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Old 2013-06-24, 00:34   Link #1650
Rainrir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Like hell he was following orders from Aladdin. He went there on his own accord. He even said he couldn't forgive those who treated people like trash and he would fight for that reason. And yes, it was incidental that Kouha was there, but Alibaba fought to protect those people because he decided to so on his own, so he wasn't lying.
If you read back, Alibaba said those words in the context of stopping the black djinns and saving the people of the 5th district explicitly. Those are the people who he said was being "treated like trash", and not the Kou army. Alibaba doesn't know Kouha and Aladdin couldn't really tell him anything after he LEEROY'ED the Dark Djinns.

I put quotes around "orders" because Alibaba is only intervening after Aladdin told him what's going on, but Aladdin never actually told Ali about Kouenj explicitly. I don't actually mean Aladdin made Alibaba do it against his will, but Alibaba went in without any idea who the person he saved while smashing up Dark Djinns was.

So yes, Alibaba went in to stop the Dark Djinns to "save people", but he didn't went in knowingly to "save Kouha" as he is saying now. He is saying the latter now to get favor and safety from Kouen. He is lying in the sense that he misrepresented his intent. This is a lie based on what he incidentally did. If Kouha died before Alibaba arrived, he would still have done the same things. This is the distinction, and that is what Kouen saw through.

This is akin to a secret service agent who accidentally "took the bullet" to protect the (any) President, but it really only happen because he was accidentally there and not conciously aware of a shooter. IF HE TAKING credit and saying "yeah I saw that coming and protected the president", then he would be dishonest. He would be honest if he only took credit for the latter part. The dishonest part is essentially what Alibaba is doing.

Off topic.

It seems Kouen is finally fazed by something, dude has about two expressions since he was introduced.

Last edited by Rainrir; 2013-06-24 at 00:51.
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Old 2013-06-24, 00:49   Link #1651
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Rainrir View Post
I out quotes around "orders" because Alibaba is only intervening after Aladdin told him what's going on. I don't actually mean Aladdin made Alibaba do it against his will.
Aladdin just gave Alibaba information on the situation. It was up to Alibaba to do something about it or not. It was his decision to intervene, a decision he made based on personal reasons. So the word "order", even with quotes around, just doesn't fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainrir View Post
This is akin to a secret service agent who accidentally "took the bullet" to protect the (any) President, but it really only happen because he was accidentally there and not conciously aware of a shooter. IF HE TAKING credit and saying "yeah I saw that coming and protected the president", then he would be dishonest. He would be honest if he only took credit for the latter part, but he is being dishonest when he also took credit for the first. This is essentially what Alibaba is doing.
I still don't think it's a lie. He went there to protect those people and Kouha was one of them. But whatever, I see where you're coming from at least. Still, Alibaba's ashamed reaction is out of place imo. Even if his little political stunt didn't work as he expected, he should have kept his cool and his head high.
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Old 2013-06-24, 00:57   Link #1652
Rainrir
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It's shameful because his plot is being seen through, meaning he is playing a juvenille plot in front of a "master". That's normal. People get embarassed even when their everyday white lies got dismantled, much less a lie that was aimed to extract benefits from someone. To be still proud after that would be extremely thick-skinned, I think Alibaba is tired of being "shameless" so to speak.

Alibaba went in to smash the dark djinns, with saving the 5th distinct people as a main goal. That he saved the Kouha and some of the Kou army is incidental. If he saved Kouha, that's great; if he couldn't save Kouha (may it be inability or just being late), he probably wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. He didn't explicitly take the field to save Kouha, if he did, then his priority would be Kouha and not the Dark Djinns/5th. This is what he told Kouen, which is not actually why he took the field for.

This lie would fall into a "technically not lying part", but representation and intent is also important to one's meaning. Ali basically misrepresented his original intent of his actions and gave a completely different meaning to his own actions, all to maximise his chances of misleading and getting something from Kouen. I would say that's a lie based solely on Alibaba's intent.

Last edited by Rainrir; 2013-06-24 at 01:18.
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Old 2013-06-24, 01:23   Link #1653
Kazu-kun
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^ We're talking politics here. What he said didn't have to be a perfect truth; it was enough that it wasn't a lie. And it's not shameful that his strategy didn't work as he expected. It just means he needs to up his game. Again, it's politics.

Really, if he's so concerned about saving face, he's still got a ways to go to become a proper ruler.
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Old 2013-06-24, 06:55   Link #1654
Gundamx
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alibaba goal was to save his live nothing more nothing less which was clear to everyone
(He don;t care if they will hate/embarassed him > he made situation where they can't kill him> that why Kouen said don't fuck with me)
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Old 2013-06-24, 14:19   Link #1655
marvelB
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All I'll say about this chapter is that Gyokuen was creepy as hell. But then again, when is she NOT?
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Old 2013-06-24, 22:10   Link #1656
shmaster
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Really, if he's so concerned about saving face, he's still got a ways to go to become a proper ruler.
That's problem though, Kohen see right through Alibaba that Alibaba didn't want to be looked down.

I don't know what the translation had done to this chapter, but the interaction between those is pretty clear cut.
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Old 2013-06-25, 01:50   Link #1657
hawkeyesvn
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All I'll say about this chapter is that Gyokuen was creepy as hell. But then again, when is she NOT?
When we still thought that she's just the hot and cute young mother of Hakuei and Hakuryu . She's a MILF until that freaking revealation in the Pirate arc.

About the little chat between Kouen and Alibaba. Ali defintely tried to tricked Kouen into not being able to be hostile to him with his words. Too bad, Kouen saw through it. Kouen's line proabably mean: " You shouldn't think too high of your ability in saving people since you've already fail protectintg your country". In other word, a slap to Alibaba's pride.

And Ithnan turned out to be a important character after all...I wonder if Yunan had predicted this ?
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Old 2013-06-25, 06:02   Link #1658
whitecloud
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above magnostat...



surrounding it....

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Old 2013-06-25, 08:14   Link #1659
Kazu-kun
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That's problem though, Kohen see right through Alibaba that Alibaba didn't want to be looked down.
By acting ashamed, Alibaba puts himself down on his own. If he doesn't want to be looked down, he should act the part, even when he fails to one up a political opponent. Yes, Kouen saw through him, but Alibaba should take it like a man, with his head high.
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Old 2013-06-25, 18:54   Link #1660
Diveman
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Interesting chapter, I wonder if after this we're gonna see how Mor is doing.

Also I'm reading Magi is gonna have a 2nd season for the anime...I REALLY hope they do it justice this time and don't rush things like the last time.
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