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View Poll Results: Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10 27 32.53%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 43 51.81%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 8 9.64%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 6.02%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-06-25, 23:15   Link #161
aohige
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triplez View Post
I'd like to know what the Stairway to heaven is. COuld it be a dormant killer satellite? a mech kept in storage?
Clearly it's a rediscovered phonograph with a Led Zepplin album spinning on it.

We just weren't aware this is yet another Macross Saga.
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Old 2013-06-25, 23:23   Link #162
FlareKnight
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Well we knew it would be either Kugel was behind this or he was dead and Striker had gone rogue. Ended up being the latter. It made sense a good way through the fight that Kugel was dead. It just didn't seem like a speech from the guy we saw in episode 1. Not the way I'd imagine him trying to reason with Ledo even if he had gone powerhungry.

This could be a rather large pain to deal with though. Not sure how much stress maneuvers might put on a pilot in those units, but if there are any Striker doesn't have to worry about them. Going to be a tough one for Ledo to win.

Do wonder what this big secret is. The fact that they need Amy's help makes it all the more interesting. Though it could be as simple as needing Amy to fly into the area to tell Ledo how to make use of this Stairway to Heaven. Does sound like some sort of transportation or teleportation device. Maybe they can go and dump Striker into the sun.

Still seems plenty likely the emotional loss we're going to see is having to sacrifice Chamber. The ultimate move by the pilot support system, sacrificing itself to protect its pilot.
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Old 2013-06-26, 03:53   Link #163
ttdestroy
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Yeah when Chamber didn't turn on him(like I thought he would), I assumed he was gonna get destroyed. Chamber is pretty much the ultimate bro/wingman.
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Old 2013-06-26, 04:09   Link #164
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Well whoever Tomokazu Sugita dubs, it is a good guy!
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Old 2013-06-26, 06:21   Link #165
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I bet the key leads to a chamber where a flying mech is long hidden in which the former captain of Gargantia owns. Meaning, he's also GA soldier and the rest was history. Reason why the doctor and the old captain knew something about the Whalesquid was because Ridget's father was once like Ledo who kept on fulfilling his top priority of killing the Hideaze and soon realized the meaning behind his actions were questionable. Amy will pilot the relic so she can help Ledo, only her is capable of doing it. blah, blah, blah, and so these are just my factual imaginations.
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Old 2013-06-26, 08:32   Link #166
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Its just the key to the worm hole that you see in the revelation at Squidnest. When opened, it creates a subspace rift that tears everything in range apart, leaving Ledo to lead Striker into it.

He then is faced with the choice of using the worm hole to jump back home, or stay.
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Old 2013-06-26, 10:33   Link #167
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Gotta say this was one of the best episodes I've seen in a long time - as someone put it earlier the train jumped the tracks, but then landed on even better tracks, impressive!

The mutiny unfolded as expected, but was satisfying, and I was actually glad to see the rehabilitation of Pinion and Pirate Queen.

The euthanasia scene was upsetting and effective. Putting the GA's policy's in play among the people of Earth for me really underscored how morally bankrupt and inhuman that society was! Honestly I'm surprised there are still GA supporters in this forum. Kugel's or Striker's intentions or execution quality aside *that* is the true face of the GA and it was very clear we were to be horrified by it.

I actually found the way that Ledo approached Chamber regarding the possibility of combat to be quite effective and tense. It reminded me a bit of a confession scene the way they danced around the question without Ledo committing himself to something that could be considered insubordination or mutiny. I was surprised Chamber gave in, but I suppose that's the risk of a learning machine - as it gathers data and adapts it may realize it can follow orders to maximize happiness with a different definition of happiness.

Was happy to see more Melty and have her be so prominent in the climax because I find her slightly cat-like eyes and quirky smirk to be super cute (and she's the resident twin-tail of the series). I got the sense that she'd been signaling Gargantia for a while before dropping of into exhaustion, so the timing didn't seem ridiculous, but the scene did feel rushed... after all they had to skip the necessary mouth to mouth resuscitation attempt by Amy, or the scene where Amy tenderly undresses her unconscious absent old friend... er... ok I digress but the scene was too rushed, and felt like a coincidence.

Fight scene - awesome! And as expected with critical assists from the rebels.

Kugel's reveal was shocking to Ledo (and surely it's not a coincidence that Kugel got Mami'd), and I think completes the study on the many ways humans can lose their humanity. They can act like animals, they can act like machines, they can become animals, or they can abdicate their decisions to machines. In retrospect Chamber's stirring speech in defense of the GA is now explicitly self serving and clearly the motivation for Striker's actions.

The GA (and it's war against the Squids) is necessary to justify the existence of Machine Calibers.

What comes next? Chamber realizes this and self destructs with Striker?

What's the external power source Chamber identified during the battle?

What secret does Gargantia hold with the key?

I'd like something along the lines of Gargantia opens wormhole gate and we find we're far in the future, the GA has been wiped out and the Squids return to Earth. Seeing what's happening they threaten to destroy all humanity, but Ledo submits himself as the only criminal, and the Gargantians convince the squids of the model of co-exsistence. Ledo's gone, Humanity lives in a 'happy' society, but essentially in a nature preserve maintained by the post-human spacefarers. Shocking, and twisted, but somewhat good end.

However I can't imagine why Gargantia would consider their Stairway to Heaven a tool of last resort if it's only a gate...
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Old 2013-06-26, 10:40   Link #168
Endless Knackwurst
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket View Post
What's the external power source Chamber identified during the battle?
I was wondering about this myself, then wondered if I was overinterpreting things...

When that line came up originally, I thought it meant that Striker was getting additional energy beamed to it from some remote location, which would have to be dealt with for Chamber to win.

After watching it again I thought that maybe Chamber meant simply that Striker had been charging itself from some external power source during the past few months, so it had a much higher level of stored energy than Chamber, which had been running on internal reserves the whole time.

...that still would leave the question of what Striker had done to adapt to the local power sources, since it does not seem that so far Chamber and Ledo have managed to do so.
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Old 2013-06-26, 14:42   Link #169
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Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post
With Urobuchi personally writing the last episode of the series, I'm concerned for Red. I'm not sure if it's going to be all smiles and happy ending for him by the end of this.

I can think of five possible endings:

1) Chamber sacrifices himself for Red in order the destroy Striker and Red starts a new life on Gargantia, helping them adapt the tech so humanity can begin to thrive.

2) Both Chamber and Red sacrifice themselves to destroy Striker, and Gargantia and all Earth humanity will be forever changed by the visitors for beyond the stars.

3) The key is used for a warp gateway that Red and Chamber use to get rid of Striker, however they too get sucked in and end up back at the GA. Red uses what he's learned to change the GA and help the rest of humanity stuck in endless battle.

4) The battle is hard and many are lost, but Red with the help of Gargantia is able to destroy Striker. Everyone begins to rebuild and Red finds a new home.

5) Number 4, but at the very end, the GA show up, having traced Kugel and Red's signals.

I've thought of some of these possibilities too. In response to number 3.. Half of me hopes Ledo survives and lives on Gargantia but the other half of me feels like the GA needs a revolution..

Also, unlike most of the comments here, I prefer Pinion with his hair up hahaha. But his personality seems to have at least gotten better haha.
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Old 2013-06-26, 20:17   Link #170
andyjay729
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So in the end Gargantia can be summed up with this classic Sesame Street sketch...as well as Gen's philosophy to some extent.

"I AM A MA-CHINE. I AM NE-VER WRONG. MA-CHINES ARE BET-TER THAN HU-MANS...BET-TER THAN HU-MANS...BET-TER THAN HU-MANS..."
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Old 2013-06-26, 20:23   Link #171
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I've thought of some of these possibilities too. In response to number 3.. Half of me hopes Ledo survives and lives on Gargantia but the other half of me feels like the GA needs a revolution..

Also, unlike most of the comments here, I prefer Pinion with his hair up hahaha. But his personality seems to have at least gotten better haha.
Given Gen's preference for bittersweet endings, I personally think that's how things might end. The key will summon a stargate back to space and both Chamber with Ledo and Striker will get sucked in, with Ledo crushing Striker to "death".
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Old 2013-06-27, 03:57   Link #172
Spectacular_Insanity
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I'll admit, the end of this episode made me go "What the fuck?"

So it was the AI support system the entire time? Mind = blown.
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Old 2013-06-27, 04:57   Link #173
ReddyRedWolf
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Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst View Post
I was wondering about this myself, then wondered if I was overinterpreting things...

When that line came up originally, I thought it meant that Striker was getting additional energy beamed to it from some remote location, which would have to be dealt with for Chamber to win.

After watching it again I thought that maybe Chamber meant simply that Striker had been charging itself from some external power source during the past few months, so it had a much higher level of stored energy than Chamber, which had been running on internal reserves the whole time.

...that still would leave the question of what Striker had done to adapt to the local power sources, since it does not seem that so far Chamber and Ledo have managed to do so.
Yeah it is wireless energy transmission. As for the power source is likely the solar powered nanomachines the question is the method as the Evolver videos did not show such.

Then again... Earth had space elevators but those as far as we know were destroyed.
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Old 2013-06-27, 05:04   Link #174
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Lols..... the machine was behind everything... It takes normal pressure to behead a rotten corpse...
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Old 2013-06-27, 14:12   Link #175
ReddyRedWolf
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I think I found out why Chamber wouldn't comment on Kugel.

From LN pictures we know soldiers aren't always inside their Machine Calibers. But during an operation they do keep them in suspended animation.

In Ledo's case it was an emergency measure till rescue came. But resources are finite. How long can Chamber keep recycling air or keep his charge's vitals stable.

Kugel doesn't come out of Striker and is apparently awake. How can Kugel live shut in? Chamber can't prove if Kugel is alive or not to Chamber Kugel is both alive and dead at the same time.

Schrödinger's cat paradox is in effect.

Which is why Chamber can only answer so as far Striker is concerned. While he has suspicions he doesn't have proof about Kugel. But Striker its actions are does not conform to regulations and goes against the purpose of AI priority as Chamber puts it "Protect Human dignity". Pretty much First Law of Robotics there. Why is Striker depicted as a god? When they are merely tools of humans according to Chamber.
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Old 2013-06-27, 19:59   Link #176
triplez
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Stryker is portrayed as a god is because i think is how the the fleet that fished the AI out regarded it as such. Who knows. Judging by the carcasses of whalesquids on their ships it's my reasoning that Stryker decimated the whalesquids in the cult's area and transfered the reverance or awe inspiring worship from whalesquids to itself. Plus with the mech on their side the High priestess in charge use Stryker to draw more ships and people to their cause and increasing her own power.

I doubt that all the cult members are their by free choice. You have the pirates becaUSE they can't match the power of Stryker but still wanting to break away at a later date. IF Stryker still wants to fight the Space Hideaze building a second Avalon is probably the best choice.

Remember Chamber suggested Ledo could dominate the more primitive Gargantia with its power. Without Kugel perhaps Stryker went to a default position. By uniting the Earth Stryker will in time get the resources to return to the Galactic Alliance.

Stryker may explain why they still use pilots in their space battles. Without humans the AI might change the parameters of its own programming.

With only one episode left I still hope for that happy ending. The defeat of Stryker. Reconciliation with Gargantia. Pinion hooking up with the pirate. Ledo kissing Amy although if she's too young that would be gross.

It would really be bold if Ledo decides to return to space and attempt to enligthen the folks back home. That would leave the series hanging but more dramatic. Just speculating.
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Old 2013-06-27, 20:53   Link #177
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Well I can see how this is going to end:

YouTube
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
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Old 2013-06-27, 21:32   Link #178
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It would really be bold if Ledo decides to return to space and attempt to enligthen the folks back home. That would leave the series hanging but more dramatic. Just speculating.
Not to mention establishing a premise for a sequel.
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Old 2013-06-28, 04:04   Link #179
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It would really be bold if Ledo decides to return to space and attempt to enligthen the folks back home. That would leave the series hanging but more dramatic. Just speculating.
and no one on board shall listen to him
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Old 2013-06-28, 08:30   Link #180
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That would be a way to give some kind of "closure" or hope for the early introduced galactic war.

If nothing of that sort happen the ending would be something like: "Rejoice! The cultists have been vanquished and all it's right with the Earth! Yeeeah... there's still Hideauze and Nazi GA killing each others in the galaxy, but who cares?"
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