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Old 2013-06-27, 18:49   Link #5141
questmas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post
Uh, yes I can. There have been zero mentions of Miyuki in the LNs being able to pull off those feats, and multiple mentions what Tatsuya can do is unique to him. Do you have anything from the LNs to show Miyuki can pull off Flash Cast, for example?
No idea whether miyuki can pull off flash cast but I think Maya can.

If you look at her fight with tatsuya, "night" was invoked instantly(I guess you can argue that she drew her CAD really quickly, but I think Tatsuya would notice).

Unlike Miyuki's Cocytus, "night" doesnt feel like an innate magic. From what I remember, innate magics seem to have easily described effects with complicated mechanisms to create the effect."Night's" mechanics were explained (albeit the explanation was confusing) so it feels like "night" wasnt something that Maya was born with but was something that she designed. Since it wasn't an innate magic, to cast it without a CAD, she must have used flashcast.

If you take into consideration that Maya can flashcast, it isnt unlikely that there are other members of the Yotsuba that can flashcast.


Anyway.... What did you guys think why you realized Miyuki's Cocytus is a direct counter to Tatsuya's Regrowth?
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Old 2013-06-27, 19:00   Link #5142
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Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
That doesn't really prove anything. If he knew Tatsuya's abilities, then he wouldn't need to refer to his experiences to rate Tatsuya.
that's why i only say most likely.

there is high possibility maya is the only one that know Tatsuya MB.

from the summary of web arc 6 we can say that Hayama knew about his Elemental Sight.

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Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
If this has been confirmed then the Yotsuba aren't quite snubbing him. Without revealing his true abilities Tatsuya does not meet the qualifications required for the responsibility for a member of one of the master clans. Take away flash cast and everything to do with his birth ability (elemental sight, Restore, and Decompose) he is a below average mage that can barley pass his practicals. This is not someone that is fit to do the assigned duties of the Yotsuba, who based on the Miyuki spin off seem to be the group that handles rouge mages. It's likely those not in the know feel his role as a guardian is due to favoritism rather then capability (boy would they be wrong)

Re: but having seen countless magicians over the years his venerable experience rated Tatsuya highly.

This doesn't say if he knows any thing about them or not but he clearly places Tatsuya as a very competent mage compared to those he has seen, IE the Yotsuba old guard. So he may full well know of his ablities.
no matter what, Tatsuya is not a true magician.

but everyone will acknowledge him as a very deadly weapon and will be a valuable asset for the Clan ( he is already a valuable asset for the country )
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Old 2013-06-27, 21:42   Link #5143
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Originally Posted by rickiminato View Post
this is a question for those who know of the tragedy of the yotsuba

if they had not kidnapped Maya and tje Yotsuba not entered into conflict, the fate of the shiba siblings would have been worse or better
The Shiba siblings would have definitely be treated more kindly, but its impossible to say whether it would have been for the better or not. For example: incident didn't happen->entire family is kinder->Tatsuya isn't weaponized and turned into a guardian->he may be too weak and everybody would have died during the Okinawa invasion (he wouldn't have pursued his mist dispersion magic far enough into formulating material burst. So, it's impossible to say.

However, the Yotsuba family definitely became more "hard" after the incident. All of the volunteers were probably from the kind-hearted portion of the family, and most of them died. The remaining part that didn't volunteer were most likely the cold, practical ones. Also, Maya who has been stripped of her emotions has become the leader.


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Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
no matter what, Tatsuya is not a true magician.

but everyone will acknowledge him as a very deadly weapon and will be a valuable asset for the Clan ( he is already a valuable asset for the country )

That's only if they knew Tatsuya's abilities though. Because Tatsuya's MB is a state secret, its probably not going to be told to any of the clan members. So, all of the normal clanmembers just think that Tatsuya's a skilled bodyguard with anti-magic capabilities.
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Old 2013-06-27, 21:49   Link #5144
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Originally Posted by iheartz View Post
The Shiba siblings would have definitely be treated more kindly, but its impossible to say whether it would have been for the better or not. For example: incident didn't happen->entire family is kinder->Tatsuya isn't weaponized and turned into a guardian->he may be too weak and everybody would have died during the Okinawa invasion (he wouldn't have pursued his mist dispersion magic far enough into formulating material burst. So, it's impossible to say.

However, the Yotsuba family definitely became more "hard" after the incident. All of the volunteers were probably from the kind-hearted portion of the family, and most of them died. The remaining part that didn't volunteer were most likely the cold, practical ones. Also, Maya who has been stripped of her emotions has become the leader.





That's only if they knew Tatsuya's abilities though. Because Tatsuya's MB is a state secret, its probably not going to be told to any of the clan members. So, all of the normal clanmembers just think that Tatsuya's a skilled bodyguard with anti-magic capabilities.
Yeah. It's amazing how smooth the author made the transition.
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Old 2013-06-27, 22:41   Link #5145
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Originally Posted by iheartz View Post
That's only if they knew Tatsuya's abilities though. Because Tatsuya's MB is a state secret, its probably not going to be told to any of the clan members.
Maya is the only one know about his MB.
and she is waiting for the right time to revealed it ( after he graduated from high school )

Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartz View Post
So, all of the normal clanmembers just think that Tatsuya's a skilled bodyguard with anti-magic capabilities.
agree, i think normal clan members don't know about his mist dispersal.
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Old 2013-06-27, 23:24   Link #5146
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i like how antinite cant cancel out tatsuyas magic , it makes his powers even more unique xD
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Old 2013-06-28, 00:21   Link #5147
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If you look at her fight with tatsuya, "night" was invoked instantly(I guess you can argue that she drew her CAD really quickly, but I think Tatsuya would notice).
Eh, considering most magics are usually done in 0.x sec, you can say that almost all magic are instantaneous Difference is that Flash Cast is even faster than that. I seriously doubt she could do that though since I think it's implied that he's the only one survived the experiment. While his aunt also got her mind manipulated someway to make her experience = magic powers, I doubt that means she had achieved Flash Cast.
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Old 2013-06-28, 05:53   Link #5148
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Hmm, for those speculating about comparisons between Lina, Tatsuya, and Miyuki, are y'all basing on only translated material, or what's already published? Since they already fought one on one, though with some variables involved
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Old 2013-06-28, 07:24   Link #5149
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Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
Eh, considering most magics are usually done in 0.x sec, you can say that almost all magic are instantaneous Difference is that Flash Cast is even faster than that. I seriously doubt she could do that though since I think it's implied that he's the only one survived the experiment. While his aunt also got her mind manipulated someway to make her experience = magic powers, I doubt that means she had achieved Flash Cast.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the difference between flash cast and normal cast is that flash doesn't require a CAD because the caster already has the magic memorized.

""You are disobeying my direct order?"
"The only one allowed to order me is Miyuki alone."
The tension reached its peak.
Within that period of urgency, as if time had stopped,

The world turned to ‘Night’.

It was not mere darkness."

If you look that part from volume 8, there was a lot of tension so Tatsuya should have been actively paying attention to Maya's movement. There's no mention of her pulling out a CAD and I doubt she would have predicted this situation and had a CAD in her hand the entire time(its possible that she planned the whole thing to gauge how well she would do in a fight with Tatsuya, but I still think Tatsuya would have noticed a CAD if she held one).
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Old 2013-06-28, 07:37   Link #5150
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Originally Posted by questmas View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the difference between flash cast and normal cast is that flash doesn't require a CAD because the caster already has the magic memorized.

""You are disobeying my direct order?"
"The only one allowed to order me is Miyuki alone."
The tension reached its peak.
Within that period of urgency, as if time had stopped,

The world turned to ‘Night’.

It was not mere darkness."

If you look that part from volume 8, there was a lot of tension so Tatsuya should have been actively paying attention to Maya's movement. There's no mention of her pulling out a CAD and I doubt she would have predicted this situation and had a CAD in her hand the entire time(its possible that she planned the whole thing to gauge how well she would do in a fight with Tatsuya, but I still think Tatsuya would have noticed a CAD if she held one).
CAD has many forms. could be a bracelet, tablet, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong
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Old 2013-06-28, 07:59   Link #5151
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the difference between flash cast and normal cast is that flash doesn't require a CAD because the caster already has the magic memorized.
You need to understand the function of CAD in the first place. IIRC they're like computers that will do your calculation for you. In other words, the magic 'data' will be calculated first through CAD before it manifest in real world. Using CAD is like using a calculator where you put a bunch strings of value and command to get the result. In using calculator, a person need to put in the value and work on the command before getting the result. Flash cast, on the other hand, is like seeing a superhuman who can calculate things instantly using his/her brain (i.e manual but instant).

Still talking about that analogy, depending on the calculation a person can calculate it quickly or slowly. For example 1+1=2 can be done almost instantly (without using calculator) but a calculation where we got something like 4^2^3^4 can't be done in a second...though there could be a freaking genius who possibly can do it in a second. That kind of complex calculation needs calculator to get the result almost instantly.

Now I think this is what makes Tatsuya a bit different.. you see, whenever someone see a math question and try to answer it, they still need to calculate it in their brains before getting the result. What I believe is that for Tatsuya, all the questions AND answers are already implanted in his brain. As a result, he can give a result WITHOUT doing any calculation..

To summarize, I don't think not using CAD means that he/she is using flash cast. IIRC there's a line that mention that magicians can actually use magic without it but it will take too long to cast or something.. and I also vaguely remember something about ancient magician who rarely use it though I'm not so sure about this.

What flash cast ultimately is that no-casting spell, 0 delay, etc
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Old 2013-06-28, 08:19   Link #5152
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Isnt it more of the fact that they can activate magic without CAD if its their specialty? As in like Miyuki's Cocytus which she activated with a mere hand outstretching motion.
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Old 2013-06-28, 09:17   Link #5153
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Originally Posted by Windknight111 View Post
Isnt it more of the fact that they can activate magic without CAD if its their specialty? As in like Miyuki's Cocytus which she activated with a mere hand outstretching motion.
Not all CADs have the same activation methods, furthermore the CAD could have been in stand by mode with a pre-arranged sequence already processed or ready to be processed (Mayumi does this all the time).
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Old 2013-06-28, 10:06   Link #5154
blackwhite67
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Originally Posted by questmas View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the difference between flash cast and normal cast is that flash doesn't require a CAD because the caster already has the magic memorized.

""You are disobeying my direct order?"
"The only one allowed to order me is Miyuki alone."
The tension reached its peak.
Within that period of urgency, as if time had stopped,

The world turned to ‘Night’.

It was not mere darkness."

If you look that part from volume 8, there was a lot of tension so Tatsuya should have been actively paying attention to Maya's movement. There's no mention of her pulling out a CAD and I doubt she would have predicted this situation and had a CAD in her hand the entire time(its possible that she planned the whole thing to gauge how well she would do in a fight with Tatsuya, but I still think Tatsuya would have noticed a CAD if she held one).
Night is Maya's innate magic. She can cast it quickly without a CAD. Recall volume 8, where Miyuki casted Cocytus without a CAD.
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Old 2013-06-28, 11:03   Link #5155
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in mahouka are another people more powerfull than tatsuya
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Old 2013-06-28, 11:22   Link #5156
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Originally Posted by rickiminato View Post
in mahouka are another people more powerfull than tatsuya
maybe there is but it wasnt stated yet, we still didnt see he fighting with full power, since there are a lot of layers that were said to restrict him that we dont know yet. it's difficult to speculate how strong he really is right now.
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Old 2013-06-28, 11:49   Link #5157
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in the 101 Battalion, there are some people that can beat him (the Major for example) but just under some conditions.

Even Lina has the upper hand when fighting one-on-one with Tatsuya.

But yeah, in an full-all out battle (when Tats has no restriction whatsoever), I doubt anyone can defeat Tatsuya. Even if someone does, there won't be a small price
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Old 2013-06-28, 12:26   Link #5158
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Originally Posted by Ophis View Post
maybe there is but it wasnt stated yet, we still didnt see he fighting with full power, since there are a lot of layers that were said to restrict him that we dont know yet. it's difficult to speculate how strong he really is right now.
The system of magic in this series makes this pointless. Tatsuya has the ability to cause nuclear explosions at will. Lina has the ability to fire a localized solar flare. At full power their magic is one-hit kill, no exceptions.

Actually, it's one-hit two kill (at least) since using Lina's magic at full power would kill her and Tatsuya needs a satellite to increase his range to the point he doesn't vaporize himself.

The attack magic so far exceeds the defensive capabilities of the characters that comparing strengths has no meaning.
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Old 2013-06-28, 12:29   Link #5159
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Originally Posted by Ultragunner View Post
in the 101 Battalion, there are some people that can beat him (the Major for example) but just under some conditions.

Even Lina has the upper hand when fighting one-on-one with Tatsuya.

But yeah, in an full-all out battle (when Tats has no restriction whatsoever), I doubt anyone can defeat Tatsuya. Even if someone does, there won't be a small price
Kazama can only beat Tatsuya on pure physical combat alone, if Tatsuya use "Mist Dispersal" he can destroy the entire 101 Batalion by hinself.

Spoiler for web novel:
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Last edited by Ophis; 2013-06-28 at 17:51. Reason: wrong pronunciation
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Old 2013-06-28, 12:45   Link #5160
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Originally Posted by Ophis View Post
Kazama can only beat Tatsuya on pure physical combat alone, if Tatsuya use "Mist Dispersal" he can destroy the entire 101 Batalion by hinself.

Spoiler for web novel:

Tatsuya would also need Trident to do that.
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