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Old 2013-06-27, 13:53   Link #61
Gintokifan22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Yami~ View Post
Kakashi vs Obito is too boring....

why Kishi doesn't want to put some epic battle between them??

at least, Kakashi isn't died... and Madara will return with full power
Cuz Kishi doesn't seem to care about Kakashi any more, last fight of his was off screen

I give up, Kishi doesn't seem to remember how to make a good villain or how to end arcs.
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Old 2013-06-27, 15:24   Link #62
Lunarskylar
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
He said he was weak when asked why he wasn't as strong as Madara, everybody but Hashirama is weak in comparison to that.
What you said is simply not true, Obito was a super-vilain who could eat Kakashi for breakfast without breaking a sweat and in fact that's what he did barely 30 chapters ago with only Taijutsu. He's the guy who intimidated Sage Kabuto with his army of Edo-Tensei, instantly erected an fire barrier that the Hachibi couldn't dent, who took on Naruto, KillerBee, Kakashi and Gai at the same time and who forced Naruto to use all of Kyubi's chakra to buff thousands of chakra cloaks in order to save half the Alliance from being roasted because of a single Katon.
I also love how you phrased "he managed to survive using a stolen sharingan eye" to dismiss the fact that he can use Izanagi to a ridiculous extent, let me rephrase that correctly : he has a hundred Sharingan, each and everyone of them could make him invincible during 10 minutes. Yamato and Kakashi never stopped him from doing anything, he was there to talk and nothing else although his interest in Sasuke (supposedly fundamental for his plan once upon a time) fighting Naruto has disappeared into thin air.
it's actually because he did all of this prior to his kakashi fight that i have no problems with kakashi beating obito. I don't think the juubi refills chakra like kyuubi-chan does... so the fact that obito is still standing until now is more hax than anything. kakashi's been refilled like 3? 4? times already.

kishi exhausted obito enough to the point where kakashi+ deternimatio-no-jutsu would actually have an effect on him,

i saw the final scene as a "oh shit... that hurt more than i thought it would, fuck kk better go recharge" and madara was like "nah"

but ulimately, in any sort of normal fight of obito vs kakashi, obito would demolish kakashi and even kishi knows that
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Old 2013-06-27, 15:40   Link #63
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What an absolutely pathetic end to a once compelling and intriguing villain.

That was even worse than Kakuzu's demise!
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Old 2013-06-27, 17:29   Link #64
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I think that one aspect of the fight, Obito vs Kakashi,that some are not considering are the emotional factors.Funny because these things are often brought up and even poked fun at right here on this forum.Think about what was going on before Obito took Kakashi into the dimension.Think about the things he was saying to Naruto and how Naruto would respond.And even Madara questioned why he cared to hear what the brat Naruto was saying.Then remember how this story repeats the scenarios.
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Old 2013-06-27, 17:40   Link #65
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
What you said is simply not true,
Of course it's not if we look at Tobito's best moments, but when i look at the other side of him, the loser side, i fail to see him as a super-villain. It's subjective of course.

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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
He's the guy who intimidated Sage Kabuto with his army of Edo-Tensei,
Those conversations are always funny, they usually don't turn out to be the reality. Looking Tobito's and Kabuto's war performance i'm more impressed with Kabuto despite he lost in the end.

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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
instantly erected an fire barrier that the Hachibi couldn't dent,
I forgot that one, that sure was impressive. Well of course if don't count his phasing/teleporting ability

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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
who forced Naruto to use all of Kyubi's chakra to buff thousands of chakra cloaks in order to save half the Alliance from being roasted because of a single Katon.
Sad thing he failed again, as usual the katon fails, this time being used as a plot device to let Naruto save the worthless asses of noname alliance members
I mean it failed to impress me even if objectively i should have been impressed by the size of that katon.

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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
I also love how you phrased "he managed to survive using a stolen sharingan eye" to dismiss the fact that he can use Izanagi to a ridiculous extent, let me rephrase that correctly : he has a hundred Sharingan, each and everyone of them could make him invincible during 10 minutes.
Yeah, i did write about those sharingans in a previous post, but it's not like he has even 1 of those that he can immediately use. Well i'm assuming he can't implant a sharingan eye into himself in a split second, but maybe i'm wrong. But if he can't use those then i assume that because he has a rinnegan and his own very special MS eye he won't sacrifice any of these two to have his 10 minutes of godmode, even if that would make sense if he faces death.

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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Yamato and Kakashi never stopped him from doing anything, he was there to talk and nothing else although his interest in Sasuke (supposedly fundamental for his plan once upon a time) fighting Naruto has disappeared into thin air.
It just doesn't make sense to say that while these 2 last tailed beasts are crucial for his success he would not take them if he can. So what i mean even if he should be able to beat them if we look at it rationally, the author's plot prevents him to do so, and the result is that i can't really think of Tobito as a super-villain. Maybe we can look at him as an anti-Naruto (in the sense that he's evil), since Naruto is also a guy who's both super-powerful and still a dropout when the plot needs that, for example he was completely beaten by Edo Nagato in a few seconds, saved by countless people in this war until now. And of course in this chapter Tobito performed as a dropout, the author even shows a flashback to reinforce this. If it were Madara who fails like this i would be very annoyed with the manga but somehow when it's Tobito i just call it a minor plot hole and forget it

The author could even defend this stupid outcome by explaining that by this time Tobito's thinking was somewhat messed up by Kakashi's speech and he simply tried to phase but forgot that they are already in his private dimension and failed.

Or one could be completely rational and realize that both his character and his power is complete nonsense. For example he uses the 10 minutes izanagi against Konan, and we know he has hundreds of eyes. So why doesn't he use it to easily beat and collect both the 8 and 9 tails. Being rational would be a painful experience
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Old 2013-06-27, 19:44   Link #66
Midnight Commander
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
they didnt have rinnegan and sharingan, they were being manipulated by obito who had a sharingan and a rinnegan. it's like pain's monsters or the kyuubi with sharingan. when beings are controlled by those powers, their eyes look like them. so it was basically all obito fighting in that case.
Actually, the bodies essentially did have sharingan and rinnegan(not literally), since Obito was able to have them use abilities from both eyes during the fight. We obviously know that a Rinnegan user can vicariously use dojutsu abilities through manipulated bodies; in this case Obito also managed to do so with the sharingan. Checking back though, Obito did actually does possess full accesss to the Rinnegan, but he was unable to fully take advantage of it back then, as simultaneously controlling 7 bijuu was too demanding to permit it.
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Old 2013-06-28, 01:34   Link #67
itachi-san314
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the bottom line of the whole discussion is that obito was a super villain. when he first got MS (without any practice or experience) he annihilated that entire squad of mist ninja using mokuton primarily. it makes no sense that he wouldn't be worlds better than that by now and that he didnt use mokuton vs kakashi. obito should be >>>>> kakashi whether or not he could use kamui, which he should have been able to use anyway. and if danzo could use multiple sharingans for izanagi then i dont see why obito couldnt
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Old 2013-06-28, 08:19   Link #68
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Where's the giant fire Ball?

THAT SPINS MIND YOU
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Old 2013-06-28, 11:38   Link #69
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
I have a feeling that the flashback of rin has to mean something. Maybe Obito will give his eye again to kakashi? That would be a good way to redeem obito before he dies, but I am afraid kakashi has no place to step in, as there are already too many powerful allies in the battlefield
The flashback of Rin was to show why Obito did what he did. Why would Obito give Kakashi his eye and help fight against a plan he is fully committed to succeeding?

Obito wants the Eye if the Moon plan to work so there would be eternal peace and no situation like with Rin could ever occur again.

If Obito was going to be redeemed and turn on Madara, the seeds would of been planted during the Kakashi fight. But they weren't. Now he is being torn apart and about to die to give life to Madara. He is going to die believing a lie.
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Old 2013-06-28, 13:38   Link #70
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
If Obito was going to be redeemed and turn on Madara, the seeds would of been planted during the Kakashi fight. But they weren't. Now he is being torn apart and about to die to give life to Madara. He is going to die believing a lie.
and as one of the most disappointing characters ever. he could have been amazing... but tobi turned into mindless and endless emo crap

so basically when tobi said he wanted to be complete, he was quoting jerry mcguire and having rin in a phony world would complete him...
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Old 2013-06-28, 14:30   Link #71
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
If Obito was going to be redeemed and turn on Madara, the seeds would of been planted during the Kakashi fight. But they weren't. Now he is being torn apart and about to die to give life to Madara. He is going to die believing a lie.
I'm not sure about that. Did you expect Sasuke's decision to become hokage?
Now Tobito can experience before anyone else how great it will be to live in a world where Madara is the god

BTW i think Tobito failing against Kakashi is a lesser plot hole than Tobito the master manipulator failing to anticipate that Madara was prepared to take control of his body in case things go wrong. But actually it would be funny if with his last bit of power he switched the revival target from Madara to Rin and we would have a clueless 12-14 year old Rin in the middle of the greatest world war


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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
the bottom line of the whole discussion is that obito was a super villain.
Not for me. Sure in the beginning there was the possibility that he will become, but then Kishi began to slowly deconstruct him. All the plot holes around him, not only his power but also his character. If he were the real Madara he would have effortlessly beaten Konan despite the trap she set up, thus establishing his super-villain status. But Kishi let her almost explode him, and he lost an arm, part of his mask and an eye. Then Kabuto forced him to make an alliance. Etc... And in the end we learned that he is just the good old Obito gone crazy over the loss of a girl. In the end there's place only for one super-villain in this war and more than ever it seems to be Madara. ( I don't see how this war could become interesting/dramatic/epic again if Madara does not seal the 10-tails into himself, sure he is very powerful even as an Edo Tensei but when he must fight everybody he needs another powerup to be scary again).

Last edited by Ero-Senn1n; 2013-06-28 at 14:48.
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Old 2013-06-28, 15:45   Link #72
itachi-san314
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Not for me. Sure in the beginning there was the possibility that he will become, but then Kishi began to slowly deconstruct him. All the plot holes around him, not only his power but also his character. If he were the real Madara he would have effortlessly beaten Konan despite the trap she set up, thus establishing his super-villain status. But Kishi let her almost explode him, and he lost an arm, part of his mask and an eye. Then Kabuto forced him to make an alliance. Etc... And in the end we learned that he is just the good old Obito gone crazy over the loss of a girl. In the end there's place only for one super-villain in this war and more than ever it seems to be Madara.
well of course madara is above obito. if there's one super villain it's madara. i didn't know there was a limit i would put madara, obito, nagato and itachi (when they were 'bad') and orochimaru into that category. basically it just means a villain but super-sized when it comes to power, planning and resources compared to other normal villains.

obito was careless with his zetsu body because he knew it didn't matter and he could replace it. he chopped his own arm off vs torune like it was nothing (which it essentially was. which makes kakashi stabbing him to death all the more nonsensical but whatever lol). konan took a lot of time setting up an enormous trap for him. just him surviving that is a marvel. and like always he carelessly waltzed into it because he knew he could survive almost anything with izanagi's help before hand. anything but a raikiri of course...

that fight against konan wasn't about killing her. it was about getting information. if obito wanted to just kill her, he could have in a nano-second. i also dont think kabuto forced him to do anything. obito forced him to teach him edo-tensei and then he used kabuto's army to his advantage (particularly the gold and silver brothers and madara). obito didnt lose anything by joining up with kabuto
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Old 2013-06-28, 17:51   Link #73
Kurohane
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
the bottom line of the whole discussion is that obito was a super villain. when he first got MS (without any practice or experience) he annihilated that entire squad of mist ninja using mokuton primarily. it makes no sense that he wouldn't be worlds better than that by now and that he didnt use mokuton vs kakashi. obito should be >>>>> kakashi whether or not he could use kamui, which he should have been able to use anyway. and if danzo could use multiple sharingans for izanagi then i dont see why obito couldnt
Technically, he used Mokuton in that battle, but that was mostly from the Zetsu he had merged within him and used its body to make this wood spikes and beams. He couldn't actually use any jutsu requiring hand seals not unless apparently you have a wooden face of the First somewhere on your body.
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Old 2013-06-28, 19:07   Link #74
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
i didn't know there was a limit
haha, i mean the current super-villain. Sure they change as time passes, escpecially in such shonen manga where there's so much power inflation. I remember when Orochi was the big bad

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
which makes kakashi stabbing him to death all the more nonsensical but whatever lol).
I didn't view it that way, Obito didn't behave as if it was a mortal wound, he was simply in pain and needed to escape the situation in order to heal/rebuild himself and come back as if nothing happened.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
konan took a lot of time setting up an enormous trap for him. just him surviving that is a marvel.
At that point the previous super-villain was Pain/Nagato and compared to that i wasn't impressed by his performance. Of course that's subjective, maybe the majority thinks he was badass there.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
and like always he carelessly waltzed into it because he knew he could survive almost anything with izanagi's help before hand.
Well being careless is befitting for a super-villain, but it's not cool when it turns into big trouble Madara was also careless against the kages which almost got him into trouble, but each time he got into trouble he simply powered up, and had fun, that's what i call the next evil boss

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
i also dont think kabuto forced him to do anything.
He tried to kill Kabuto immedately, Kabuto first summoned the akatsuki on him to force him to negotiate and then he summoned Madara to force him to make the deal.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
obito forced him to teach him edo-tensei and then he used kabuto's army to his advantage (particularly the gold and silver brothers and madara). obito didnt lose anything by joining up with kabuto
I didn't say that Kabuto was stronger, although i was more impressed with his performance in this war after all. In the end this deal was better for Tobito, but we saw how Kabuto wanted to capure Bee and Naruto to use them against Tobito. So the whole war was a mess for Tobi, he didn't seem to be in control of what happens.
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Old 2013-06-28, 19:15   Link #75
itachi-san314
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At that point the previous super-villain was Pain/Nagato and compared to that i wasn't impressed by his performance. Of course that's subjective, maybe the majority thinks he was badass there.
konan knew very precise specifications for obito's technique. much like she did for nagato. we obviously never saw nagato trapped, but she could have trapped nagato with the information she knew about him as to where his real body is. then while he was distracted she could have used some sort of powerful seal on him. of course it would have taken a lot of preparation like the ocean of paper tags took and access to a special/secret sealing device, but they do exist

Quote:
He tried to kill Kabuto immedately, Kabuto first summoned the akatsuki on him to force him to negotiate and then he summoned Madara to force him to make the deal.
i think obito took the deal because he wanted to. he wasn't forced into anything. what would kabuto have done if obito simply vanished with kamui?
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Old 2013-06-28, 21:17   Link #76
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Exposed him as a fake.
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Old 2013-06-28, 23:04   Link #77
Hunter
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Originally Posted by Kurohane View Post
Technically, he used Mokuton in that battle, but that was mostly from the Zetsu he had merged within him and used its body to make this wood spikes and beams. He couldn't actually use any jutsu requiring hand seals not unless apparently you have a wooden face of the First somewhere on your body.
He used handseals for a Mokuton jutsu chap 605 and also used Mokuton during the current war, he just forgot all about it against Kakashi.
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Old 2013-06-28, 23:50   Link #78
Monster0
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Obito was like "Kakashi join me in happy happy joy joy land" Kakashi was like "i hate new Obito, you must die!". Obito wasn't trying to kill Kakashi,he wanted to and probably did save him by going into the dimension and leaving him there.
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Old 2013-06-29, 06:29   Link #79
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So in the end kabuto :> obito considering kabuto held off itachi and sasuke, even if they weren't trying yo kill him, while obito lost to kakashi. They should've used izanami on obito so he can enjoy his misery forever.
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Old 2013-06-29, 08:25   Link #80
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RIP Obito(later) considering the possibilities that he might die by Madara`s 'jutsu'. Madara, we all know that he`s cruel(more of a bit tyrant. Using your subordinate as your pawn, I`m disgusted with that kind of thinking) and arrogant.

The fight is really B-O-R-I-N-G! I was expecting a good fight, not that. Obito is now an emo LOL, so die slowly and scream when anyone could have placed an Izanami on you *lets out a sadistic grin*


Jeez, what would happen next? Someone dies (Obito, maybe?)as a sacrifice for that inhuman jutsu or something else? I really hope it was of something interesting
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