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Old 2013-07-04, 14:39   Link #801
LazyHunter
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I think it was pretty obvious that the only people who fought seriously in those fights were Touma and Mikoto.

Also hamazura Acqua was a Saint (that's how he carried that mace) and his power as a member of God's Right Seat (GRS) was Divine Mother's Mercy (DMM) that gives his body the characteristics of Virign Maria's body, basically making him a sinless human who can use both normal and divine class magic, unlike the other members of GRS His specialty was water magic, being almost as good as Gabriel, an archangel.

The curse he nullified was because he can nullify his own sin of killing using DMM.

By the way Vento could somehow use human magic agaisnt Fiamma, right? How the hell that happened? If Touma did that (reversing whatever method GRS used to purify their Original Sin) could he have done that with Fiamma too?
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Old 2013-07-04, 17:27   Link #802
SilverTalon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acer View Post
considering Kanzaki, Acqua and Silvia who use powerful magic with their physical abilities to do absurd things, the Brunhild doing just that a place like the saint weaker shown so far, I have read her struggle with Mikoto again and clearly does not mention of any use of magic, You said it saw no reason to, Brunhild to hold? (Though for me it never held, not only went all, the difference? She wanted to kill the opponent) taking more superficial things like not show Mikoto losing a fight, which is something that I do not want to debate, I think it makes more sense the reason she had not seen the need to use more than such, Brunhild facing front and avoided the attacks of Mikoto, while Mikoto needed or divert or put something in front of both, although the fight seemed balanced, a single attack of Brunhild could easily change the direction of the fight.
Heres a line from their fight:
Quote:
Something other than simple sharpness of the blade forcibly hacked through the obstacle and secured the claymore’s path.
Does that not sound like there was magic reinforcing her attacks? I mean it sounds similar to me to what Kanzaki uses which is magic enhances sword attacks (and wires). Now no it isn't runes.

And yeah I think its a good idea to avoid plot armor type things as reasons for actions. But why didn't Brun see the reason to step it up if she wasn't? Her attacks were completely ineffective. Now yeah, a single one connecting is likely fatal for her opponent, but she isn't landing anything. And really (though I don't think its true) one could argue the exact same thing for Mikoto with your exact logic. Mikoto was able to dodge everything, why bother trying harder?

Now I don't really think the fight was balanced. Mikoto's attacks weren't that effective and Brun couldn't hit Mikoto, so basically that eventually turns into a battle of endurance between Brun taking a bunch of hits and Mikoto wearing herself out, and a saint is clearly going to win that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Lets make it clear with some facts:

Both Thor and Sylvia agreed if they go all out they could end causing great destruction on the city and they're right. Just remember how much destruction caused the times Kanzaki fought Acqua and the time she fought Brunhild (pre and post Gungnir).

And last, after the fight they make clear that they were just buying time for Ollerus.


There is no contradiction at all, Acqua uses rune magic and so does Styil Magnus.

Other example could Kanzaki who can use Shinto, Christian and Buddist magic at once with no problem.
My bad on the runes, I was thinking that might be norse stuff and like gungir reacts poorly to her saint trait as I remember that being used more with the gungir, but you're definitely right.

Thor and Sil did say they would blow up the city if they were serious, but Brun never mentions anything like that. Brun caused a lot of destruction the second fight with Kanzaki, but that was Valk mode with an incomlpete gungir iirc. There was still a fairly large amount of destruction going on as is from Brun/Mikoto and Thor/Sil, I don't think Brun's runes would have destroyed an area larger than their 2 fights already destroyed, but do you have something specific in mind suggesting otherwise?

They were buying time yes, but that doesn't mean they planned to fail there. I mean if the intent was to start a fight that would last a long time and they had no intention of winning, why open with what would usually be a sure 1 hit kill? Now yeah, maybe Freu is insignificant enough that Birdway is unwilling to risk Touma over it and doesn't use her big spells, but Brun obviously had no problems burying Mikoto.
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Old 2013-07-07, 15:57   Link #803
freeofgreed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverTalon View Post
Heres a line from their fight:


Does that not sound like there was magic reinforcing her attacks? I mean it sounds similar to me to what Kanzaki uses which is magic enhances sword attacks (and wires). Now no it isn't runes.
When I read that line i got the impression that it just her swinging her sword so fast that it cut through the air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
Odd question... if Touma's right arm is the output point of IB and Fiamma said it was the only arm worthy of housing the Holy Right...

Since Rensa copied the output capabilities of the arm(even though it blew up shortly after) did that mean for the short moment her arm could have been the output point for Holy Right as well?
I think it means for that short moment her arm could've housed the holy right. Seeing as how Touma can't use Holy right, I doubt she'd be able to either.
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Old 2013-07-07, 16:05   Link #804
Acer
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When I read that line i got the impression that it just her swinging her sword so fast that it cut through the air.
I agree, she swings that sword at a speed greater than that of sound, it creates other phenomena.
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Old 2013-07-07, 19:18   Link #805
Doc Astaroth
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Damn, I just realized, that Fremea has basically mind raped Yakumi into a Tragic Villain TM:

Spoiler:


Don't f**k with The Loli, bitch!
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Old 2013-07-07, 19:22   Link #806
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by LazyHunter View Post
By the way Vento could somehow use human magic agaisnt Fiamma, right? How the hell that happened? If Touma did that (reversing whatever method GRS used to purify their Original Sin) could he have done that with Fiamma too?
That's not human magic.
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Old 2013-07-07, 22:17   Link #807
dniv
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Originally Posted by Doc Astaroth View Post
Damn, I just realized, that Fremea has basically mind raped Yakumi into a Tragic Villain TM:



Don't f**k with The Loli, bitch!
Actually, she just freed her from her false sense of memories as Kihara Yuiitsu said. She was seeing her actual memories not her false base anymore that Yuiitsu had given her. She had done horrible things, but she had lost this part of herself after Yuiitsu had wiped her. She clearly said those memories weren't illusions. I think that Fremea actual helped Yakumi even if that was what made her lose. She shattered her illusions (being all Toumaesque).


@DH
I think the only other anime where I felt like there were nicely executed build up is one piece. Though I do believe many would see it as long-winded and unnecessary. I find the final fights are far more satisfying once I hate the villain with all my heart due to past atrocities. In TAMNI it feels more like both sides have their own reasons and you can't judge which is morally above the other so easily. Sometimes even Touma's logic is skewed so you don't always cheer for him. I think its a charm of the series.

Volume 7 really shows this as for the most part he doesn't feel like the hero he used to be in the start of the series. But he's taken the steps to do his part. Well that might just be me.

This was very true. I really like this sentiment of yours. This is what made me like this volume so much. Touma is changing as a character after so long. I was waiting a while for this. He had changed before, but not in such an obvious fundamental way. This was made clear when he fought Tsuchimikado. He cried. We haven't seem him cry out of sadness, frustration, or anger before. He didn't even cry when... anyway... Touma obviously cares about Tsuchimikado and was a BA when talking to Seria's boss on the board of directors so it was nice.

@Hamazura:

I don't understand what you are trying to say. Touma doesn't win in the same way. If there are similarities every time wins, it's because that has to happen... I mean fremea was the one that pretty much did everything this time anyway. It changes every volume. & @ACER I preferred Touma/Thor to Levinia/Touma, but I liked both. Levinia was a great battle though and she went easy on him. It was the first time we've seen Touma versus someone form the magic side who also uses a gun. This obviously made it more exciting in contrast to previous battles with Touma vs. Anti-skill. When she got the gun out, that was just overkill. I mean come on. I don't see how you think about it that linearly. You can think about Railgun just as linearly. The only difference is that Railgun S stepped up a lot, which I'm sure Index III and Index IV will as well especially considering what they are about. Did you read the Terra of the left arc? That has a lot of Mikoto.... or good parts with Mikoto anyway. You should give it a try. Also, the stuff with Aqua of the Back was good... I don't see why there's so much hate here. Look: guys, I have friends who sadly don't read the LN's because they don't want to spend their time reading... non-manga *sigh*... so... it's not like it's a problem... I mean they still like Index I, II. They look on the wiki to learn *cool* things about the series.... However, it's very different from actually reading the books and it makes it impossible to explain why some characters are good versus not. It's like: you will either watch Railgun S ep 14 and die happy or you won't watch it and die sadly at some point in your life ... if you don't watch/read the content you can't converse about it on equal terms... especially if you read TAMNIW summaries of it. A lot of those articles could be improved. I fix some of them and make some bad new ones constantly... but there's a lot out there that can be improved.

Maybe people here could help other than Wilfriback *hint* *hint* Chaos I'm looking at you... you should get a user-name on the wiki... please... we would appreciate your help...

Anyway... it's somewhat obvious that people have been missing the complexity of this latest volume. Volume 1. IB didn't have that mention of supernatural phenomena when Mikoto hacked the esper database in Chapter 1. This chapter there was a mention that Touma had a rare power to negate abilities. All throughout NT we've seen Kiharas mention Touma's personality and power as a hero... but this is different. If they are starting to mess with him... this is getting real. I know next volume seems to be about the magic side... but... we should all realize. This volume sets two things up. 1. It sets up Touma's IB being explained soon because the power inside IB came up again. 2. It sets up Aleister Crowley doing something big as well. This is because someone has already reached the level of AIM being seemingly before him? ... He's most likely beyond that... but he's probably going to start doing things again especially after getting all of this useful data about the aim diffusion fields acting. I am guessing the reason Aleister was okay with this project was to get AIM diffusion fields going like crazy.

If we think about this rationally, the AIM diffusion fields throughout the city were changed breathtakingly so by the clashes with the many heroes. Accelerator did not go into winged mode, but Rensa was able to do this. Now that angel mode is officially confirmed by members of the Kiharas... things will go down, especially concerning Rikou who made a short appearance this volume with ITEM but wasn't mentioned by name. What I want to know is what happened to the darkness of AC as a result of what is going on.

There is no way everyone related to this or who witnessed this will somehow forget. How will Touma ever be spared from Mikoto, Shokuhou's wrath? I don't think things were wrapped up that nicely. Even the Rensas have nothing they can do. Also, who is Noukan really. We have some interesting questions after this volume. I want to figure out what is really going on here and see some answers. I really hope that for this reason that Kamachi makes the next volume long enough. But this volume had enough interesting debateable parts to it I think.

Last edited by dniv; 2013-07-07 at 22:36.
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Old 2013-07-08, 08:56   Link #808
LazyHunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
That's not human magic.
Fiamma himself said so (Vol 20, Chapter 2 Part 8)
Quote:
Fiamma’s eyebrows moved slightly.

“How very odd.”

“What is?”

“God’s Right Seat cannot use normal magic. We can only use spells that have been extremely regulated for our use. You hold the Divine Punishment spell that paralyzed Academy City, but the spiritual item that supports its activation was shattered on September 30th. And yet…”

“Is it really that surprising that I can create mystical phenomena like this?” said Vento as she rested the heavy hammer on her shoulder.

That’s right. It may be easy to forget given the ridiculous feats they could perform, but Fiamma and Vento were human. They could not perform supernatural phenomena that ignored the laws of physics without using something. There had to be laws behind Vento pulling the hammer out of nothingness.

In other words…

(Vento just used magic…?)

Kamijou’s face paled as he recalled the magic she had used to knock almost every resident of Academy City unconscious.

However, Fiamma did not seem too surprised.

“Well, that still means you haven’t succeeded in restoring your Divine Punishment. And even if you had, you cannot defeat me using that methodology.”
I'm just curious as to how that happened since God's Right Seat isn't supposed to use normal magic (save Acqua). If it was just because Touma shattered the cross Vento used for Divine Punishment or there was something else, since Fiamma says Vento holds the spell and the cross was for the activation.
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Old 2013-07-08, 09:52   Link #809
Acer
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dniv, My favorite fights of the NT are.

Kagun vs Byori.
Touma vs Thor round 1 and 2
Hamazura vs Silver Cross
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Old 2013-07-08, 11:17   Link #810
hamazura
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Touma vs Thor obviously because "extending my right arm" move is NOT VERY EFFECTIVE
And misaka worst vs misaka, misaka worst vs kuronyan and misaka worst vs last order... Eh?
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Old 2013-07-08, 15:00   Link #811
LazyHunter
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My top 5 fights on NT so far:
1. Touma vs Marian
2. Touma vs Thor round 2
3. Touma vs Birdway
4. Kumokawa Maria + Oumi Shuri vs Marian
5. Touma vs Rensa #28
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Old 2013-07-08, 15:13   Link #812
Ilidsor
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Mine are:
1. Accelerator vs Kakine
2. Thor vs Toma round 2
3. Touma vs Marian

Those are the ones that really stood out as exceptional to me.
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Old 2013-07-08, 20:50   Link #813
dniv
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My favorites are in this order: (They are probably weird to most people )

1. Learning core (enough said). (I count this as a 7513-way fight) with 10 winners... (my favorites here were obviously Accelerator and Mugino in terms of action, Shokuhou and Mikoto in terms of comedy, and Gunha and Aihana Etsu in terms of troll factor... ) (nothing really can actually beat this in my eyes unless Rikou becomes a level 5... in terms of the science side... or unless AIWASS comes out to play....)

2. Touma vs. Thor II.

3. Accelerator/Mugino vs. Dark/hollow Kakine and Fraulein vs. Kakine/Accel (3>4 only because of the amazing plot with Accelerator and the sisters, not the actual action itself even though it was pretty darned cool. I think #4 here on this list was better than #3 in terms of action... This is a metaphor to how Mugino> Mikoto )

4. Hamazura and Accelerator vs. Kuroyoru

5. Touma/Hamazura/Kuroyoru vs. Rensa and Touma/Kakine vs. Rensa (mainly because Kakine was a good guy here ) (in the first one I liked Hamazura and Kuroyoru most..., but Touma was great too. It's just nice seeing them shine a little too )

6. Touma vs. Birdway.

7. Touma vs. Marian (I have to re-read NT 4 completely... so this might change things up a little) and Touma, Fiamma, Ollerus vs. Othinus and the Kiharas' fight.

8. Mikoto vs. that saint and Mikoto & Accel @ Hawaii.

Least Favorite: Touma vs. Tsuchimikado. Not because it wasn't good. Rather, because it made me sad seeing Touma cry
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Old 2013-07-08, 21:41   Link #814
Acer
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you're right, it was weird, more weirder than Anderson Silva lost in a way so pathetic. lol.

but do not be angry, nothing against your choices.
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Old 2013-07-09, 00:12   Link #815
dniv
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Originally Posted by Acer View Post
you're right, it was weird, more weirder than Anderson Silva lost in a way so pathetic. lol.

but do not be angry, nothing against your choices.

I'll take that as a compliment?
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Old 2013-07-09, 03:09   Link #816
Chaos2Frozen
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I don't get why it's such a big deal to read that Kamijou cried manly tears
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Old 2013-07-09, 03:38   Link #817
R.LocK
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Originally Posted by dniv View Post
Fraulein vs. Kakine/Accel

Touma, Fiamma, Ollerus vs. Othinus.
Eh?

And liking a fight that went behind the curtains? ...Well.

Damn Kamachi and his One Piece-like one page battle scenes...
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Old 2013-07-09, 04:04   Link #818
dniv
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Eh?

And liking a fight that went behind the curtains? ...Well.

Damn Kamachi and his One Piece-like one page battle scenes...
I mean Kakine's minions went after Fraleuin and Accelerator attacked Fraulein to help save last order. I basically consider the whole volume to be two giant battles: one with Accel/Mugino vs. Kakine , one with everyone against Fraulein. This is what I meant: sorry for not clarifying.

@Chaos... he's only cried when it came to Index. This mean Touma loves Tsuchimikado: shipping
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Old 2013-07-10, 00:13   Link #819
SilverTalon
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I agree, she swings that sword at a speed greater than that of sound, it creates other phenomena.
What other phenomena? Sure it should have a shockwave, but that wouldn't hack through... smash maybe, but not hack. And I don't think the shockwave produced by a claymore going even 2-3 times the speed of sound would have been able to do that.

You're saying no magic, so that means the phenomena should be able to be explained by physics, physics isn't going to give you some kind of shockwave from that swing able to accomplish that.
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Old 2013-07-13, 00:01   Link #820
Goldzero
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i read somewhere that some one said that mikoto accepts the fact that touma can't return her love for him? i read the light novels but i don't remember a scene like that in the novels.
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