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Old 2013-04-08, 17:53   Link #181
Tusjecht
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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I've been wondering about White for a long time, but after a round of discussion in the LN thread I think I'm a step closer to figuring out.

Firstly, a good spoiler regarding White Cosmos:
Spoiler for White Cosmos' IS attack:
Now I mentioned it earlier as well, but just to draw a comparison for KYH:
Spoiler for Black Lotus' IS skill:


On one hand, white can be seen as the most "accepting" colour, since white light is really a mixture of light of all other wavelengths. Black is the total absence of all of them, and as you add more black paint to a colour, it increasingly becomes black as well: a "rejection" of the new colour added.

Yet, white as a colour appears that way, because of the absolute reflection of light of all wavelengths, or a rejection of every colour. Similarly, black appears black, because that surface is absorbing all light that falls on it, reflecting nothing and absorbing everything. These are the facts we've agreed on so far.

What I conjecture, however, is that the nature of the avatar reflects the first property, that they are the presence or absence of all colours of light, but their IS skills, and also implying their traumas/wishes, reflect their innate ability to accept or reject others.

White Cosmos on the surface appears friendly and accepting to all, and from personal experience, such girls would be the kind that easily make tons of friends. KYH, on the other hand, would be moody and withdrawn in comparison.

It is worth noting that while she appears popular, KYH anime-wise probably appears to have admirers and co-workers, rather than friends (outside her legion members). I would distinguish between them and friends.

If Cosmos' IS attack is anything to go by though, «White that rejects all others» would hint, that she secretly despises people from the bottom of her heart, reveling in the suffering of others when it is possible to get away with it.

KYH on the other hand, is «Black that accepts all», and for that reason, struggles to change the fact that her avatar has no hands to hold anybody with, only blades that hurt.

The polar opposites of their natures would explain why KYH knows next to nothing about white avatars if she simply never asked her sister.

And if I may speculate further on whitish and blackish avatars: so far, Ardor Maiden and Sky Raker fall into the former, while Dusk Taker, Ash Roller, Blood Leopard are dark-coloured avatars.

Those who are closer to the white end of their colour are outwardly more friendly and easy-going, making them approachable in character as a person. But inside, they hold a complex either against others or against themselves.

Those closer to the black end of their colour are much more withdrawn and difficult to connect with, and their interaction with others can be reserved. Inside however, they hold a deep wish to reach out to others, hoping to receive friendship and support.

This is a long piece of writing, do analyse point by point and raise any objections if you have them. (:
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Old 2013-04-08, 20:02   Link #182
Sunder the Gold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tusjecht View Post
Firstly, a good spoiler regarding White Cosmos:
Spoiler for White Cosmos' IS attack:
Spoiler for Cosmos versus Rain:



Quote:
It is worth noting that while she appears popular, KYH anime-wise probably appears to have admirers and co-workers, rather than friends (outside her legion members). I would distinguish between them and friends.
This seems so.

KYH only had Megumi for a friend at first, and that was because Megumi actively reached out to her. KYH seems to have made no effort to establish social connections with anyone, perhaps only making business-like relations with her fellow student counsel members. She's no social darling who emerses herself into the social scene or surrounds herself with followers.

On the other hand, that is exactly what Noumi did. However, it is possible that Noumi was not originally so bad, and that it was his brother's treatment of him following the creation of Dusk Taker that proved the final straw.

Perhaps, when Taker was created, Noumi didn't have a bottomless hunger for praise and glory, but only wanted his brother to treat him kindly. Perhaps Taker had a Limited Activation skill (like Aviation) which related to such a wish, but in breaking down and remaking himself, Noumi never achieved the attitude necessary to discover it.

Silver Crow was born from the wish to "fly", and Haruyuki only discovered Aviation in a moment where he again wished intensely for the power to "fly". If Haruyuki had an abusive parent, he might have lost his wish to "fly" (which KYH indirectly encouraged, by urging him to be strong and confident).


Quote:
Those closer to the black end of their colour are much more withdrawn and difficult to connect with, and their interaction with others can be reserved. Inside however, they hold a deep wish to reach out to others, hoping to receive friendship and support.
There is a saying that goes, "Cold hands, warm heart."

My mother told me some people believed cold hands were a sign that a person saved up all of their warmness for the heart they showed to those who could get past the cold hands.
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Old 2013-04-13, 02:41   Link #183
Tusjecht
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Sunder, you're not active on the LN thread, are you? Anyway, I'll just copy and paste my post from the SAO LN thread, and hope you have a good grasp on the events of Alicization:

From Flere's WEB Final summary, and my response to that here, I quote myself:
Spoiler for "Good spoiler: Speculations incl. AW speculations:
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Old 2013-04-13, 03:23   Link #184
Sunder the Gold
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If we assume that the creator has deemed Brain Burst a possible failure and started Cosmos Corrupt for that reason, then "Corruption" may refer to the pitfall that the creator has seen twice so far.

That is, if the creator deems success or failure based on the player-base's choices, the third game may be making it more obvious that the idea of "corruption" is important in terms of "winning" the game, insofar as one must avoid becoming corrupted.

Hmm. Except CC's year of release is only two years after the release of Brain Burst, whereas the Level 10 rule and peace treaty incident don't happen until at least four or five years into the game. So this whole theory seems to fall apart.


Perhaps instead, the creator is trying to achieve some result or discover some conclusion, and keeps refining his experiment. Like, he looked at Brain Burst, said to himself, "Yeah, that system is flawed; even if it gets the result I want, it might do so by a fluke. But now I have an idea for a slightly different experiment which is more likely to provide an unbiased answer."
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Old 2013-04-14, 02:50   Link #185
Tusjecht
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Although, what if the games are catering to different age groups? Considering that they are released one year after the other, and also this: that White Cosmos is AFAIK the only player of CC2040. She's one year older than KYH, so this puts her out of middle school age, possibly 1st year of high school, making her as old as sixteen or even seventeen.

This may be silly, linking it to economics, but from what I recall in theories of why companies practice price discrimination, perhaps this splitting of games is intended to test different distinct bands of students for different abilities and/or capabilities. Perhaps the requirements for CC installation are not as strict as BB, and have stricter and harder requirements to level up compared to BB.

Ultimately this is all wild speculation though. I might want to ask the author about this...apparently he's reputed for answering every question posed to him on twitter.
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Old 2013-06-23, 19:00   Link #186
Sunder the Gold
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So, I want to speculate about how Ultimate Gunsmith works. Especially with an eye on game balance.

Anything which violates the law of "equal level, equal potential" -- as Demonic Commandeer did -- is broken.

However, there are legal ways to circumvent that rule: Gaining new Enhanced Armaments, either from Enemies, the Shops, or other Burst Linkers. Yet all of these methods somehow obey the balance.

All of them involve risking or outright trading away your Burst Points, so you're not getting something for nothing. More than that, anyone else could have gotten the same weapon or tool before you did, or their own copy, or they might steal it from you.

Ultimate Gunsmith would need to balanced against the three normal methods of acquiring new weapons. It cannot be a way for Red Rider to endlessly expand his versatility (and thus power) in combat.

Perhaps Shops have randomized inventory, and Ultimate Gunsmith allowed Red Rider to pay Shop-equal costs in order to get any kind of gun he wanted on demand, without needing to wait for the right one to appear?

If Shops (or at least some Shops) can instead make weapons to buyer specifications, then perhaps Ultimate Gunsmith could do the same more cheaply (and allow Rider to skip the tedium of traveling to a Shop)?
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Old 2013-06-24, 11:08   Link #187
Sunder the Gold
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Wait, where'd I post that? Wasn't it here already?
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Old 2013-06-24, 16:52   Link #188
Tusjecht
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You posted it in Anime General Discussion at first...
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Old 2013-06-24, 17:16   Link #189
Sunder the Gold
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My bad. I was away so long I forgot there were two different Anime threads.


Anyway, I thought more about the balance issues with Demonic Commandeer versus Lime Bell's "ability unlearn" attack.

Both are special moves that deny an ability to the target, but Bell's attack doesn't steal that power for herself, and the effect doesn't last beyond death or the end of the duel.

Further, I understand right, it can only effect "bonus" abilities, rather than the target's starting abilities. Thus, an opponent can never be denied the most fundamental aspects of their avatar. Lime Bell could make Silver Crow a weaker flier, but not take away his wings.


Which leads me to think of a particular sort of attack ability: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...61#post4672661
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Old 2013-06-26, 20:44   Link #190
Miraluka
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I heard there will be a SAO x AW crossover to be released on November 10th this year.

Is that true?

I can't get to read Kawahara's twiiter with the current server I'm using.
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Old 2013-06-27, 12:10   Link #191
Shiyumi
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Why no one consider the theory of different world's line. They said in the chapter that the quantum computer could interfere with a parallel world, so it can be a different time's line and world's line altogether. That way there are no connections between SAO and AC like Kawahara said, but they still can cross over.
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Old 2013-06-28, 06:23   Link #192
orpheus2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
I heard there will be a SAO x AW crossover to be released on November 10th this year.

Is that true?

I can't get to read Kawahara's twiiter with the current server I'm using.
Did you check the year? It might be just another offline meeting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiyumi View Post
Why no one consider the theory of different world's line. They said in the chapter that the quantum computer could interfere with a parallel world, so it can be a different time's line and world's line altogether. That way there are no connections between SAO and AC like Kawahara said, but they still can cross over.
Well, it's not that popular. Most people want the two works connected in one timeline.
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Old 2013-07-06, 02:28   Link #193
hoshino_crimsonwings
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Honestly, the Kirito vs Silver crow fight was quite brief though, don't think it'd make anything "epic".
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Old 2013-07-06, 20:32   Link #194
Sunder the Gold
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Returning to the Ultimate Gunsmith topic...

A player's items can be sold to Shops in return for Burst Points, and those items become available for sale to other players, whom must pay Burst Points to get them.

Fuuko told Haruyuki that she could do that with her Gale Thruster, as an alternative to Haru needing to meet her in real life and reveal his face. (But, she said, the price for her Enhanced Armament would have been prohibitively expensive for him because of all of the bonuses she had invested into it.)

Supposing that Red Rider's gun-creating item cost Burst Points to make a gun, Rider could turn right around and sell those guns to Shops to get Burst Points back.

Obviously, he would need to recieve only as many (or fewer) Points for selling the guns than he spent on creating the guns, otherwise he could game the system for infinite Points.


But even if he doesn't make a profit from this, Red Rider could still avoid running out of Burst Points while simultaneously filling the "market" with weapons that NPCs might not normally have in their inventories, which benefits other players (especially allies, whom can buy the weapons before their rivals can). Especially if NPCs can't make customized weapons according to a player's order, which seems likely.

In fact, the ability to make exactly the kind of gun he desires may be the only benefit of Ultimate Gunsmith.

If Rider gets an equal or fewer number of Burst Points back from the Shop compared to the amount he had to spend in creating the weapon, that means that any weapon he means to keep for himself costs him as much or more than any weapon he could buy from a Shop.

If Shops could make weapons to order, then the only benefit of Ultimate Gunsmith would be that it saves him the trip of finding and visiting a Shop.


All of this assumes another point of balance: That Red Rider must pay exactly as many (or more!) Burst Points as the Shops would charge other players to buy the weapon.

See, it's possible that Rider could create for 1 BP a weapon that is worth 100 BP, and that the Shops will only buy that weapon from him for the same 1 BP cost that he spent to make it.

However, if Red Rider could create weapons cheaper than he could buy them, he would break the system. Because no other player could gain so many additional Enhanced Armaments so reliably and with such a smaller-than-normal risk.


This means that Red Rider, before he became Level 9, likely did not have a staggeringly huge arsenal of weapons. After all, if he kept spending Burst Points on new guns for himself, he'd never have enough left over to Level Up!

Instead, it means that Red Rider gradually accumulated a few extra guns, in addition to his starting equipment and anything gained through Level Up bonuses. These extra guns would have been created for the express purpose of dealing with enemies against whom Rider's normal abilities would be ineffective. Each of them, a purpose-made, anti-(player) or anti-(Boss) weapon.

And if that player or Boss stopped being a concern? He could make up the cost by turning around and selling that weapon to a Shop. (Though he might have to worry about someone else buying that weapon and using against him or his allies.) In the end, Rider would lose nothing, and in return for "nothing" he gained a huge advantage against his target for as long as that target was a problem. DAMN.

Quite possibly, Rider had eight extra guns, each designed specifically for one of the other eight Kings of Pure Color. Which would, of course, make him very difficult for the other Kings to fight, since he could specialize against each of them rather than just one or two of them.

To counter that, they would each have to luck upon a Shop, Enemy or other player who had a suitable anti-Rider weapon, and then buy the weapon or kill the target and hope for a successful random drop. That's a lot more work.


So you see, simply being able to make exactly the weapons he wants, whenever he wants, is already a big advantage for Rider that no one else would have. Especially once he had the allies or the personal strength to reliably farm Enemies for Burst Points.

However, while Ultimate Gunsmith is powerful, we still can't be sure how powerful it is until we know more about the limitations of Shops. Such as whether they have a randomized inventory, a universal inventory between shops, an exclusive inventory in certain hidden shops, or whether some weapons are limited in stock.

Likewise, how reliable Enemy item drops are. Those might be random, and some weapons might not drop a second time.
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Old 2013-07-07, 07:54   Link #195
Sunder the Gold
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TL;DR version

1) Shops don't take custom orders. They sell only what's in stock.

2) To make a gun, Red Rider needed to spend as many Burst Points as someone would need to buy it from a Shop, if not more.

3) Rider could make guns specifically designed to counter other Burst Linkers or Enemies, then sell the gun if he didn't need it anymore.

4) Rider probably only ever had a few "extra" guns at a time, because of the huge cost involved. He didn't spend much time as a Level 9, and before that he needed to save up BP for leveling up.

5) Selling a gun allows him to get back the Burst Points he spent and makes a new gun available for his allies to buy, but it also runs the risk of his enemies getting the gun.


New

6) A number of Rider's old allies and legionaires (and one or two enemies) would still have guns created by Rider. Since a lot of his old legionaires left after his death, many of these guns would now be found in the Purple King's Oval Aurora. Purple Thorn herself likely has at least one such gun as a gift.

7) Beyond making ISS Kits, White Cosmos might have used the forge to create various Anti-King Guns, since she doesn't need to save up BP for leveling up anymore.

8) It's theoretically possible for a Blue avatar to have an Ultimate Swordsmith device, which would make him a coveted asset or target.

Last edited by Sunder the Gold; 2013-07-07 at 08:09.
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Old 2013-07-16, 13:12   Link #196
Sunder the Gold
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So, I want to voice a complaint about Accel World, Sword Art Online, and quite possibly a lot of other anime.

The only male characters are The Hero, The Enemies, The Ineffectual, and the Dudes Too Cool To Be On Screen.

The hero is Arita Haruyuki, who always saves the day. The plot always revolves entirely around him, since he's either the one needing to be saved or the only one who can save the current damsel in distress.

Takumu was an enemy, then become an ineffectual sidekick, then become an enemy again before once again becoming an ineffectual sidekick. He never gets any significant focus in battles except when he loses. He's the dude who can't win, ever; his major contributions are buying Haruyuki enough time to be the hero.

I'm pretty sure that Graphite Edge being a possible bridge to Kirito and Sword Art Online is only half the reason why he's the very last Element to even appear, let alone merit a rescue. The other half of the reason is simply because he's male, and more powerful and competent than Haruyuki.

And we can't have more than one effective male among the heroes, oh no.

Every other character is female. Not that I have any objection to an overwhelmingly female cast, but it starts to strain credibility when there's just one effective male among them and ALL of the girls are attracted to him to some degree or another.


This pattern carries over from Sword Art Online. There's Kirito, there's his harem, and the assholes he has to protect his harem from, and then there's this Klein dude being badass somewhere else in the world but never meriting any sort of real focus.

I'm assuming Recon is about as effectual as Takumu manages to be, even if Takumu is far more obviously a badass.
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Old 2013-07-18, 20:47   Link #197
Sunder the Gold
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Tell me, you do think it's possible for Accel World to focus on other heroes' struggles and developments (on ANYONE's story but Haruyuki's) and still remain the same series?

Kuroyukihime got her own sidestory in Okinawa where she was totally the hero and the viewpoint character, and absolutely none of the plot centered around Haruyuki.

Is it too much to hope that Takumu might get his chance to shine without serving as a sacrifice or getting worfed immediately after?

He loses to Haruyuki in his first battle appearance, despite the vast Level and experience difference and absolutely dominating the fight up to that point.

He has Dusk Taker on the ropes, only to get blindsided by the Incarnate System. He lays in wait in molten lava in order to land the decisive blow against Dusk Taker in the battle royale... only to have Lime Bell reverse the tables, whereupon Dusk Taker absolutely takes Cyan Pile apart and leaves Silver Crow to be the hero.

He goes through Training From Hell to develop his own Incarnate Skill, but only serves as filler until Silver Crow gets fired up enough to rush in and save the day once again as the hero.

He goes investigating the ISS and gets in over head, needing to be saved by the hero, Silver Crow... despite the fact that Crow himself is afflicted with his OWN, even more fearful curse.
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Old 2013-07-19, 12:55   Link #198
Krono
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Tell me, you do think it's possible for Accel World to focus on other heroes' struggles and developments (on ANYONE's story but Haruyuki's) and still remain the same series?
That kind of depends on what you mean by "still remain the same series". Technically, that's more or less what the Accel World/Dural: Magisa Garden is doing to my knowledge, focusing on a spin off character's story in the same world.

It's possible for the main characters other than Haru as well, though slightly more difficult due to Haru being much more heavily intertwined with them.
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Old 2013-07-19, 18:51   Link #199
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what happen in the novel 14?
anything summary please?
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Old 2013-07-19, 20:02   Link #200
Optimura
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@rickminato: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...54#post4724254 Summaries are often posted in the LN thread. If it isn't there, one may assume it hasn't been made yet.

Also, for Accel World being able to focus in someone else's exploits, yes, I do believe it'd be quite possible. I wouldn't mind a spinoff adventure... If the main character weren't a mary sueish girl and it focused more on battles and less on yuri fanservice... A competent male character every now and then wouldn't hurt, you know. Let's hope Wolfram Cerberus will fix that...
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