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Old 2013-07-19, 23:55   Link #801
Irenesharda
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Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
They do have their constitutional rights you know. They were illegally conscripted. It's surprising to know that no one protested when the kids first made their debut. The way I see it they are way TOO content about fighting and they don't seem to have any plans about what happens after the fighting's over. I know fighting's necessary for the safety of mankind but they are simply WAY TOO CONTENT.
Umm, I doubt they have the same constitutional rights we do. Plus, since the military created them, it wouldn't take a large leap for them to say that they own them and that they can use them however they want, since in a way, they are weapon created for war.

I mean they erase any memories of their lives as civilians and then forbid them from ever even attempting to get them back. The military has all these kid soldiers under their thumb. They've even got them trained to the point where they don't even care about their role as weapons. Since they do, for the most part, treat them like normal soldiers and human beings. (Well, that is except the part about not letting them have a family or a childhood or anything...but other than that... )
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Old 2013-07-20, 02:50   Link #802
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Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
They do have their constitutional rights you know. They were illegally conscripted. It's surprising to know that no one protested when the kids first made their debut. The way I see it they are way TOO content about fighting and they don't seem to have any plans about what happens after the fighting's over. I know fighting's necessary for the safety of mankind but they are simply WAY TOO CONTENT.
They have occasionally expressed their discontent over their current situation, but they don't spend a lot of time thinking or talking about it. Probably because it's not terribly practical to do so.

There's also the fact that neither of them, as well as nobody important to them, has died yet. In fact, I'm pretty sure that neither of them have even sustained lasting battle injuries (well, with the exception of Asagi's ulcers ). So that gives them much more reason to be content.

As their successes builds up, it only makes sense that any discontent they feel over their situation would fade a bit. A certain confidence must start to settle in, and so would a sense of security.

Should one of them die, or sustain severe harm in battle (enough to put one of them on the shelf for months, say), then I would expect the rest to express more discontent over the situation. But as is, it makes sense to me that they'd just roll with their situation, and hope that this war will end soon.
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Old 2013-07-20, 04:44   Link #803
MeisterBabylon
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I think it would be an awesome running gag if Doberman does nothing but run from triggered death flags all through the series.
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白露型駆逐艦の4番艦、夕立です。第三次ソロモン海戦では、けっこう頑張ったっぽい★?
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Old 2013-07-20, 05:09   Link #804
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I thought it already is.
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Old 2013-07-20, 06:04   Link #805
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Okay, needs a few more gags before I can consider it running...
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白露型駆逐艦の4番艦、夕立です。第三次ソロモン海戦では、けっこう頑張ったっぽい★?
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Old 2013-07-20, 06:29   Link #806
Traece
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"What's this? You jumped two ranks? Amane, did you die in combat?" was such an amazing line. The bits where Izuru causes everyone to swoon was pretty darn great as well. Although, they're not really even bothering to hide Kei's feelings now are they?

Yet again, absolutely superb animation and some great battle scenes. Apparently the ladies are upping their armaments too. Did Kei always have so many guns? The enemy is apparently using some mobile armors for their dimwitted generals now, too. As always, the action scenes in this are top-notch, and they've been getting better and better.

So a bit of the bad, now. I'm going to keep this short, but the fact that they were able to hack into the outpost and acquire that MJP information... They were able to do this how, exactly? There's no reason whatsoever to think that the MJP would store the most classified data they have in the computers of a frontlines outpost where they're not even stationed. Wireless isn't a proper justification for that either, for very many reasons. Honestly, there are so many better ways for them to have learned about Teoria's defection. The one that they chose is very much a stretch. Apparently MJP isn't such a secret organization after all.

Also, to the discussion of the content of the team to wage this war: Perhaps it needs to be said again that they're fighting a war for the survival of mankind by their evil oppressors who created them for the sole purpose of consuming and enslaving them. At this point what would be more surprising is if they DID have problems fighting to save humanity. That's not really something you walk away from, nor is it something that leaves you much room for thoughts about what you'll do after. Plus, that phase of discontent came and went a long time ago.
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Old 2013-07-20, 06:52   Link #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
"What's this? You jumped two ranks? Amane, did you die in combat?" was such an amazing line. The bits where Izuru causes everyone to swoon was pretty darn great as well. Although, they're not really even bothering to hide Kei's feelings now are they?
I forgot to mention this, but I love how Kei never denied anything when Izuru asked "For you to be so concerned, does that mean you have the hots for me?"

It's a refreshing change from sputtering, blushing tsundere-esque denial.


Quote:
Also, to the discussion of the content of the team to wage this war: Perhaps it needs to be said again that they're fighting a war for the survival of mankind by their evil oppressors who created them for the sole purpose of consuming and enslaving them. At this point what would be more surprising is if they DID have problems fighting to save humanity. That's not really something you walk away from, nor is it something that leaves you much room for thoughts about what you'll do after. Plus, that phase of discontent came and went a long time ago.
That's a good point. Team Rabbits has very good motivation to want to continue taking the fight to the Walgaru. For the time being, that understandably trumps any concern they have for how the military has used them.
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Old 2013-07-20, 08:20   Link #808
Haak
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I loled so hard at that cake scene. Puts him into cardiac arrest AND returns him to normal. Freaking brilliant.
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Old 2013-07-20, 08:29   Link #809
Traece
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I loled so hard at that cake scene. Puts him into cardiac arrest AND returns him to normal. Freaking brilliant.
I'd like to see a spinoff OVA that takes place in the alternate universe created by this event where the cake completely kills him, and then they have to see him buried and continue the war without him, but then they lose because Izuru is OP.

Don't you just hate it when they nerf the OP too hard?
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Old 2013-07-20, 09:46   Link #810
novalysis
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Don't you just hate it when they nerf the OP too hard?
Support the campaign to nerf Gary Stu's hard! For when it comes to Stu's, there's no nerf that's apparently too hard.

If Izuru started out with that character, we'd be hearing wearisome cries that the MC is another Mecha anime Gary Stu, unfortunately.
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Old 2013-07-20, 11:50   Link #811
Moe Connection
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Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post
Umm, I doubt they have the same constitutional rights we do. Plus, since the military created them, it wouldn't take a large leap for them to say that they own them and that they can use them however they want, since in a way, they are weapon created for war.

I mean they erase any memories of their lives as civilians and then forbid them from ever even attempting to get them back. The military has all these kid soldiers under their thumb. They've even got them trained to the point where they don't even care about their role as weapons. Since they do, for the most part, treat them like normal soldiers and human beings. (Well, that is except the part about not letting them have a family or a childhood or anything...but other than that... )
It's still downright weird though that no civilians have raised any moral objections against the service of child soldiers. I know it's the most practical thing to do, I would have pressed the kids into service if I was the commander, but it's just a bit disturbing the way how the public enthusiastically greeted the kids as their saviors. I hope they try to highlight a few moral questions in this show.

Speaking about the op, is Ange really going to be in the team for long? I get a feeling he's either going to be transferred to team doberman, KIA or detached to form a one man unit. He doesn't show up much in the op and the only part where he's show is when he's with team doberman.
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Old 2013-07-20, 14:17   Link #812
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
It's still downright weird though that no civilians have raised any moral objections against the service of child soldiers. I know it's the most practical thing to do, I would have pressed the kids into service if I was the commander, but it's just a bit disturbing the way how the public enthusiastically greeted the kids as their saviors. I hope they try to highlight a few moral questions in this show.
Dude, child soldiers has been a staple in mecha anime since the first MS Gundam in the 70s. Nobody object because Earth’s military got cornered by the invading forces and the very child soldier(s) was proven able to fend the enemy off (when nobody else can) and became their beacon of hope for survival (a hero, if you will). And here you are wanting those people to fuss over about the child’s constitutional rights when their very existence is threatened. To put it simply: if those kids stop fighting, they’re all gonna die or get enslaved by the enemy (including the kids themselves). There’s no time to bitch about your rights when the enemy is aiming their gun at you. It’s fight or die.
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Old 2013-07-20, 16:24   Link #813
Haak
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Do you really think the public perception is that homogeneous? There's always going to be a variety of opinion on any subject and child soldiers is a highly controversial one. It's very easy to imagine there still being groups debating the necessity of the new AHSMB pilots having to be children and considering that the public believed for a good while that the Team Rabbits weren't all that they cracked up to be, you can imagine that debate only further intensifying.
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Old 2013-07-20, 18:45   Link #814
Traece
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Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
It's still downright weird though that no civilians have raised any moral objections against the service of child soldiers. I know it's the most practical thing to do, I would have pressed the kids into service if I was the commander, but it's just a bit disturbing the way how the public enthusiastically greeted the kids as their saviors. I hope they try to highlight a few moral questions in this show.
There's another big point to be made here: I wouldn't even call them child soldiers.

Our modern definition of what a child soldier is, is pretty perverted by the media. It's a term that carries a negative connotation because we think of African kids running around with AK-47s because they have no other options. This is literally as far from that case as is actually possible.

It may seem like there should be some moral objections to what's going on here, but honestly I can't think of many reasons why there would be. Yet again, this is the survival of the human race we're talking about. When the survival of even a single country is at stake it's not unheard of for the young and old to be put into military service. Just as well, they were already taken into a program to adapt them for space, so any objections to doing odd things to children have come and gone years ago. The second point for me to make is that besides the whole "end of all human civilization as we know it and slavery as mindless drones" bit, is that they're also getting borderline royalty treatment. At the end of the day, they want to do it and it's not like they're being manipulated into doing it.

There's little gain in raising moral objections when it's a situation where there's no reason to harbor them. They want to do it, and it's completely necessary.

Edit: Also, it needs to be said that the MJP wasn't introduced at the start of the war. They started sending out Team Rabbits after the Wulgaru had already invaded and completely and entirely mopped the floor with the human race. Even if that delay was because the ASHMB units weren't ready yet, it still happened that way. When you're in the very real process of being absolutely annihilated, having something come along and finally contest that annihilation doesn't leave you the room to complain.
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Old 2013-07-20, 19:47   Link #815
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Do you really think the public perception is that homogeneous? There's always going to be a variety of opinion on any subject and child soldiers is a highly controversial one. It's very easy to imagine there still being groups debating the necessity of the new AHSMB pilots having to be children and considering that the public believed for a good while that the Team Rabbits weren't all that they cracked up to be, you can imagine that debate only further intensifying.
Nope. Differing public opinions will always be there about anything, but in accordance to darthfanta’s complains, do you really believe that this kinda show will find the need to present a scene where the public is protesting about these “child soldiers' rights” issue? The best you’ll get is some known characters voicing their objections about it like what have actually happened with pre-instructor Rin-Rin and that female assistant-commander in the early episodes. The moment the public know that these kids are the only ones capable of piloting ASHMB units (for now) which are the only units that can fight toe-to-roe with the Wulgarians and protect those public’s collective asses, I imagine they'll shut their collective mouths and won’t bother with the “issue” anymore. They're "anime public" after all (it's the usual "collective asses over human rights of a few", dude ).
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Old 2013-07-21, 02:20   Link #816
Moe Connection
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Nope. Differing public opinions will always be there about anything, but in accordance to darthfanta’s complains, do you really believe that this kinda show will find the need to present a scene where the public is protesting about these “child soldiers' rights” issue? The best you’ll get is some known characters voicing their objections about it like what have actually happened with pre-instructor Rin-Rin and that female assistant-commander in the early episodes. The moment the public know that these kids are the only ones capable of piloting ASHMB units (for now) which are the only units that can fight toe-to-roe with the Wulgarians and protect those public’s collective asses, I imagine they'll shut their collective mouths and won’t bother with the “issue” anymore. They're "anime public" after all (it's the usual "collective asses over human rights of a few", dude ).
More like the public is taking it too well.Not only were there few public objections, the civilians were pretty active in using the poor kids for commercial gain.Kei was obviously pretty annoyed. The public as it's shown, doesn't really object against the use of child soldiers or the use of child labor as well.

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Dude, child soldiers has been a staple in mecha anime since the first MS Gundam in the 70s. Nobody object because Earth’s military got cornered by the invading forces and the very child soldier(s) was proven able to fend the enemy off (when nobody else can) and became their beacon of hope for survival (a hero, if you will). And here you are wanting those people to fuss over about the child’s constitutional rights when their very existence is threatened. To put it simply: if those kids stop fighting, they’re all gonna die or get enslaved by the enemy (including the kids themselves). There’s no time to bitch about your rights when the enemy is aiming their gun at you. It’s fight or die.
Except gundam is a show that deliberately shows how dehumanizing wars are. The director specifically shows just how 'bad' both sides of the war were as well as it's effects on the civilian population in general. The effect on the civilian population in gundam was so bad or the public was so indoctrinated by propaganda that there's no reason why the public would condemn the use of child soldiers. In addition to that, the gundam pilots more or less 'volunteered' to become a soldier. They weren't conscripted. Most of them more or less fell into the cockpit and decided to use the gundam to fight out of their own volition.Other than that, the main characters(the child soldiers from gundam) doesn't seem to be in much media spotlight.This show on the other hand pretty much shows a pretty happy civilian population as well as the media happily cheering and exploiting kids for protection and for commercial benefit with little to no objections at all.

Last edited by Moe Connection; 2013-07-21 at 05:50.
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Old 2013-07-21, 04:50   Link #817
Haak
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Nope. Differing public opinions will always be there about anything, but in accordance to darthfanta’s complains, do you really believe that this kinda show will find the need to present a scene where the public is protesting about these “child soldiers' rights” issue? The best you’ll get is some known characters voicing their objections about it like what have actually happened with pre-instructor Rin-Rin and that female assistant-commander in the early episodes. The moment the public know that these kids are the only ones capable of piloting ASHMB units (for now) which are the only units that can fight toe-to-roe with the Wulgarians and protect those public’s collective asses, I imagine they'll shut their collective mouths and won’t bother with the “issue” anymore. They're "anime public" after all (it's the usual "collective asses over human rights of a few", dude ).
"Anime public" is definitely a lot less complex than the regular public.

But even then, some members of the public could easily just claim that it doesn't have to be children that pilot the ASHMB and a lot of the public were at one point convinced that the ASHMB pilots wasn't their silver bullet, so there's no reason why there can't be any objections other than the "anime public" line.
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Old 2013-07-21, 06:08   Link #818
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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More like the public is taking it too well.Not only were there few public objections, the civilians were pretty active in using the poor kids for commercial gain.Kei was obviously pretty annoyed. The public as it's shown, doesn't really object against the use of child soldiers or the use of child labor as well.
What were you expecting? This is an action mecha show, not a highbrow social/psychological-commentary mecha show like GITS. Like what I said to Haak before, you already get some representation of “public objection” from Rin-Rin and that female assistant-commander. Considering the nature of the show, if later on they indeed present us a scene where the public openly voiced their objection about those “child soldiers”, you can consider yourself lucky.

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Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
Other than that, the main characters(the child soldiers from gundam) doesn't seem to be in much media spotlight.This show on the other hand pretty much shows a pretty happy civilian population as well as the media happily cheering and exploiting kids for protection and for commercial benefit with little to no objections at all.
Either that, or the makers of many mecha series with “child soldier” protagonists out there simply don’t care or don't see the importance in making the public of the anime’s universe that concern about the said “child soldier’s” human rights, just like MJP here.

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But even then, some members of the public could easily just claim that it doesn't have to be children that pilot the ASHMB and a lot of the public were at one point convinced that the ASHMB pilots wasn't their silver bullet, so there's no reason why there can't be any objections other than the "anime public" line.
In case you're expecting a reply from me, read my reply to darthfanta above. It's pretty much the same thing.
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Old 2013-07-21, 06:34   Link #819
Triple_R
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Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
This show on the other hand pretty much shows a pretty happy civilian population as well as the media happily cheering and exploiting kids for protection and for commercial benefit with little to no objections at all.
Because it's working. Because it's clearly humanity's best (and perhaps only) shot at turning back the Wulgaru. So the alternative is getting wiped out by the Walgaru. When the stakes are this high, people are much more likely to go along with extreme measures.

That's the in-canon reason. The meta reason is that while this show has an overarching war narrative, it also has a fair bit of lighthearted comedy. Such lighthearted comedy would be hard to maintain if the elements that you're talking about were focused on more. A balance between heavy drama and relaxing comedy is struck. I think MP does a good job of balancing the two, but the price is that certain elements have to be downplayed to make it work.
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Old 2013-07-21, 06:52   Link #820
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They are heroes, kill one of them and you can be sure you will find lot of opposition afterward.
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