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Old 2012-07-04, 12:41   Link #4541
Asuka0NK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Spoiler for Higurashi/Umineko:
Then what about Hanyuu's past. Were those all lies. Also as I recall Lambda didn't have anything to do with Higurashi besides the fact that she granted Miyoko's wish to be a god. Also as I remember Hanyuu was the cruel gamemaster who trapped Bern in a logic error. This logic error being that Hanyuu lost all faith in it and thus the game couldn't continue if even the gamemaster gave up but Rika/Bern didn't and were able to keep the game going. I don't think Hanyuu and Featherine have much in common besides the fact they call others child of man but this may just be a thing that gods do as both Hanyuu and Featherine are gods.
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Old 2012-07-04, 12:54   Link #4542
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Don't think the EP4 thread is a good place to talk about that...
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Old 2012-07-04, 15:25   Link #4543
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Quote:
Then what about Hanyuu's past. Were those all lies.
Of course not. Think of it as incarnating a deity.

Which is, you know, what Hanyuu IS.

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I don't think Hanyuu and Featherine have much in common besides the fact they call others child of man but this may just be a thing that gods do as both Hanyuu and Featherine are gods.
They also look the same, are deus ex machinas, and have relationships to Rika/Bernkastel.
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Old 2012-07-04, 16:17   Link #4544
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People in Umineko described Higurashi as a novel. It is Battler's favorite novel and Lambda didn't read yet and doesn't want to get spoiled by Bern.

So: Higurashi paralells are just easter eggs and have nothing to do with the story.
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Old 2012-07-04, 17:06   Link #4545
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Or Lambdadelta was Obfuscating Stupidity, which she does ALL THE TIME.
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Old 2012-07-04, 17:18   Link #4546
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Did you know? Ronove wants to go to the caribbean. WHAT? Umineko must have some connection with "pirates of the carrabean"! I know it! Ronove is Jack Sparrow from today's times!

(whoops sorry for EP6 spoilers)
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Old 2012-07-04, 17:37   Link #4547
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...The caribbean is a place that exists in the real world. You know that, right? Your analogy doesn't work.
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Old 2013-01-13, 22:48   Link #4548
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When does Eva Survive?

I've just started reading Umineko in its entirety after reading Episodes 1-5 a few years ago and I've just finished Episode 1. Anyway, I remember from Ep. 4 in the world/storyline where Bernkastel recruits Ange, Eva somehow survived October 5, 1986.

I'm trying to come up with a legit theory of who kills who in Episode 1 and what troubles me is this:

Does Eva survive in every game storyline, i.e. is the Ange recruitment storyline the "true" story that follows every game storyline? If she does, I have to account for her faking her death in the closed room on Episode 1 Fifth Twilight. Bleh.
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Old 2013-01-14, 02:26   Link #4549
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Eva dies at the second twilight in EP1, not the fifth. Also, the EP1 epilogue implies that the whole of that episode is a diary found in a message bottle written by "Ushiromiya Maria"; EP4 goes into more detail on this. If it conflicts with the truth by saying Eva died when she actually didn't, then that might say something about the assumptions and situation of the person who wrote it...
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Old 2013-01-14, 12:52   Link #4550
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While Eva seems to have survived in the "true" reality of Ange's life, she dies in the 1st, 2nd, and 4th games.
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Old 2013-01-14, 15:12   Link #4551
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Originally Posted by Total Casual View Post
I've just started reading Umineko in its entirety after reading Episodes 1-5 a few years ago and I've just finished Episode 1. Anyway, I remember from Ep. 4 in the world/storyline where Bernkastel recruits Ange, Eva somehow survived October 5, 1986.

I'm trying to come up with a legit theory of who kills who in Episode 1 and what troubles me is this:

Does Eva survive in every game storyline, i.e. is the Ange recruitment storyline the "true" story that follows every game storyline? If she does, I have to account for her faking her death in the closed room on Episode 1 Fifth Twilight. Bleh.
No, Eva doesn't survive in each story. There's an explanation for this but to get it you've to advance to the following episodes or move your question to the spoiler thread as answering would involve other episodes.
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Old 2013-01-15, 16:46   Link #4552
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Yeah, I think the best hints for Eva surviving in Ange's world but dying in the others can be explained by looking at certain things in EP1 and EP4 specifically. Remember the epilogue from Legend. EP1 ends with: When the Seagulls Cried, None Survived.

If Eva survived, then one can't say that "none" survived.
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Old 2013-01-15, 18:07   Link #4553
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The exact same reason EP3 ends with "When the seagulls cry, there was one survivor".
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Old 2013-07-31, 16:46   Link #4554
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Just quickly popping in after having read Battler's test, sin and his read truth...

WHAT THE HELL I DON'T EVEN...

Also if I could I'd beat Amakusa to death with mackerel for Mr. Zakky.

Ok, going back into cookoo-land.
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Old 2013-08-01, 14:53   Link #4555
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*picks up a towel*
*throws the towel*

Spoiler for Siiiiiigh. Where to start, where to start, where to even start.:
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Old 2013-08-01, 15:40   Link #4556
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After EP5 you will be motivated to fight again.
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Old 2013-08-02, 00:09   Link #4557
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Quote:
1. The two bottles with two diaries each discribing the killings of ep1 and ep2.
I don't even care when, how or why someone would write those diaries and send them in bottles for whatever reason. The simple fact that the killings of ep1 and ep2 are described and appear in ep3 timeline/world/shard whatever. It's just game-breaking
Is Ange's 1998 the same as EP3, though? Or is that just your assumption?

Quote:
2. Battler talking to Beatrice.
On the phone, fine. Someone can change their manner of speech and voice, so you won't recognize who it is.
But Battler talked to Beatrice and saw her on the balcony. He did not recognize her as one of 17. It was raining, it was dark, but you'd still know if the one you're talking to is a witch or one of your relatives. No more than 17 humans exist on this island!! Battler was not drunk. He's was not in shock over gruesome murders. At that time he only confirmed George as dead, and assumed Gohda and Kumasawa are very likely dead.
Was everyone confirmed dead when Battler spoke to Beatrice? He only investigated all the bodies until after their conversation.

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At the very least Krauss, Natsuhi, Nanjo, Genji, Shannon and Kanon all know Kinzo's dead. All those scenes with Kinzo were what exactly!?
Illusions. Magic scenes. For many readers, this will be an indication that not all magic scenes have supernatural occurrences if they haven't picked up on it already, and also busts the door open on all kinds of things. Remember in EP2 when Rosa claimed to have talked to Kinzo? You now know she was lying.

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But besides the fact that there is noone really to speculate with as everyone else already knows the answers. At this point I feel that I'd either make dumb theories that do not deserve to even be read in this masterpiece of a mystery and I'll be amazed how everything is perfectly explained. Or it won't make any sense for me even after reading all 8 eps and it's "the truth is what you believe" answer.
Please, keep fighting! Your genuine first-impressions have been one of the most delightful things to read on this forum in a long time. Don't give into the witch, you can beat her! Her illusions and tricks have made us all cry, scream, and curse the heavens in frustration, but you'll see the weakness in her 'perfect attacks'! The truth is attainable with just these 4 episodes, if you're clever enough, the next four episodes will make it easier.

Quote:
And one other thing. In ep3 I indeed figured that this game is unwinnable for Beatrice. But didn't she make the rules to actually be able to win? Thanks to Ange no less.

All Beatrice had to do was counter one Battler's blue truths (which were all (except for Nanjo's murder and 1st twilight of ep3) raging from ridiculous (clockwise shooting and eating bombs) to down-right wrong (17+X person in ep4) with a red truth. And he didn't even cover 1/3 of all the mysteries.
If Battler doesn't come up with another blue truth in a minute - he loses. The end.

I still don't understand how he ever agreed to such disadvantageous rules and why Beatrice didn't abuse them.
Well I kinda get why Beatrice wanted to lose. Even more than inability to win, it has something to do with Battler's sin and "Who am I" Beatrice.

But it's not like Beattrice has no chance of win. She could've actaully easily won. Unless I misunderstood the blue truth rules and it would still be a tie even if Beatrice won.
Correct me if I won, but it's not that Battler has to make a new Blue within a minute, but that he has to make one before the game is over. The problem is that Ange gave Battler a better motive than "being right." He has to beat Beatrice because he needs to return to his lonely sister. As long as he remembers that, he'll never stop fighting again. As long as he never stops fighting, he won't lose. His only options are Win or Draw.
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Old 2013-08-02, 01:18   Link #4558
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Is Ange's 1998 the same as EP3, though? Or is that just your assumption?
Eh? How can it not be? Eva only survived in ep3. She clearly died in ep1 and ep2, it's even confirmed in red for ep2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Was everyone confirmed dead when Battler spoke to Beatrice? He only investigated all the bodies until after their conversation
That's what I meant - he only confirmed George as dead so it would be easier to asume that it's one of the 17, rather than a "witch". But he didn't even recognize her. A wig can only get you so far.

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Remember in EP2 when Rosa claimed to have talked to Kinzo? You now know she was lying.
Good point. Forgot about that. And the fact that Genji and Shannon kept blatanly lying even after 6 people were murdered

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Correct me if I won, but it's not that Battler has to make a new Blue within a minute, but that he has to make one before the game is over. The problem is that Ange gave Battler a better motive than "being right." He has to beat Beatrice because he needs to return to his lonely sister. As long as he remembers that, he'll never stop fighting again. As long as he never stops fighting, he won't lose. His only options are Win or Draw.
Hm. That's the thing. As I remember, at the end of the game Beatrice must counter all his blues with reds. And for every countered blue he has a minute to respond with another blue. That's why I thought these are extremly unfavourable conditions for Battler and Beatrice could've actaully won there, since half of Battler's blues were laughable.

I mean I'm not expecting Battler (the game) to give us answers to everything when there's 4 more episodes to go, but it's still something that got me wondering. The only logical explenation for me is that she was crushed by Battler not remembering his sin (and not even being the Battler she was looking for), not the hopelesness of victory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Please, keep fighting! Your genuine first-impressions have been one of the most delightful things to read on this forum in a long time. Don't give into the witch, you can beat her! Her illusions and tricks have made us all cry, scream, and curse the heavens in frustration, but you'll see the weakness in her 'perfect attacks'! The truth is attainable with just these 4 episodes, if you're clever enough, the next four episodes will make it easier
Aw...

Well.. To be fair when Battler started solving mysteries with blue I was like: "Noo, don't! I still haven't solved anything. Pleasebewrongpleasebewrongpleasebewrong." And only time I felt good was when Battler reached the same conclusion as me about the red truth's loophole for ep3 Nanjo's murder.

And the game crushed my favorite [Kinzo, Natsuhi, Genji, Kanon, Kumasawa] theory for ep1. So at the very least I need to strike back for that one.

Very well, will try solving at least some parts of it, when I have time to think in the evening. Especially since Nanjo (who already had shaky alibis at best) got several more bumps on the guilt-o-meter.
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Old 2013-08-02, 01:21   Link #4559
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Eh? How can it not be? Eva only survived in ep3. She clearly died in ep1 and ep2, it's even confirmed in red for ep2.
Bernkastel would be upset with you. We might have only seen 4 different fragments (as of Alliance), but the sea is infinite.
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Old 2013-08-02, 01:27   Link #4560
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Bernkastel would be upset with you. We might have only seen 4 different fragments (as of Alliance), but the sea is infinite.
Yeah, well, I told Bern what I think about her quite clearly

Which reminds me. At one point someone said that Beatrice killed the 18 over and over for hundreds of years.At another point it was said that this really was the 4th game.

Either way, no matter which fragment. The fact that those diaries appeared together. If it was ep1, how can there be ep2 diary and vice-versa. This is just one of those for me.
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