AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga & Light Novels > To Aru... Index [LN/M]

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-08-19, 01:40   Link #1681
allfictions
Of Infinite Resignation
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Canada
Age: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Shall we do an experiment then? One of us picks a certain myth from anywhere in the world and the rest of us has to come up with a spell relative to it ?
I know I'm late to the party and all, but that caught my attention while I was cruising through this thread, with 2 spells I came up with one day (I think there is some plagiarism from the wiki here and there):

Spoiler for First spell:


Spoiler for Second Spell:

And this one I'm ashamed to admit I never got anymore motivation to continue further (well, it is kinda OP too, if I may say so myself, probably fitting for a Majin to use):
Spoiler for Third Spell:


Just a snippet of my mental state, folks, nothing to worry about.

Last edited by allfictions; 2013-09-18 at 14:38.
allfictions is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 02:35   Link #1682
OH&S
Chief Safety Inspector
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
I think that omega253 is mistaken about IB not allowing espers to use their powers if he is holding onto them. It was too strong of a statement. Whether he can depends on a number of factors including what the ability actually is, where the ability is being applied and whether or not the phenomena created is one big thing to be negated (like Mikoto's lightning) or a collection of small things to be negated (like Index's Dragon Breath).

As an example, Shirai couldn't use her powers while holding IB while in NT3 chapter 1, Touma held onto Mikoto while she used her power to raise cover. Even if that was a bad example, the above reasoning still holds.
__________________
Toaru Series Calendar: A Certain Unified Calendar - <UPDATED JUNE 2014>

Toaru Series 10 Years: Light Novel Anniversary MAD* - Index:NT10 X asdfmovie
OH&S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 03:45   Link #1683
R.LocK
My turn
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Pretty sure that IB seals off any attempts to use Personal Reality.
R.LocK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 05:11   Link #1684
OH&S
Chief Safety Inspector
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
If you can find a reference in the light novels which supports your argument, then I will believe you. Until then, 'pretty sure' you're mistaken.
__________________
Toaru Series Calendar: A Certain Unified Calendar - <UPDATED JUNE 2014>

Toaru Series 10 Years: Light Novel Anniversary MAD* - Index:NT10 X asdfmovie
OH&S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 06:26   Link #1685
versionf
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.LocK View Post
Pretty sure that IB seals off any attempts to use Personal Reality.
Touma punched Accel in the face, but his black wings didn't disappear.
versionf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 08:02   Link #1686
R.LocK
My turn
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by versionf View Post
Touma punched Accel in the face, but his black wings didn't disappear.
And, we had never been enlightened by Kamachi as to what these black wings are. Also, Kamijou punched Accel only once in their second battle. It was enough to knock lost albino out. Don't really get where you're coming from.
R.LocK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 08:04   Link #1687
omega253
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by versionf View Post
Touma punched Accel in the face, but his black wings didn't disappear.
Accelerator's wings are being regenerated faster than the Imagine Breaker can nullify them. It was the same issue with Innocentius, who was able to regenerate because he was being fed mana faster than Imagine Breaker could disperse/nullify it. It was only after Touma destroyed Stiyl's rune cards using the emergency sprinklers, that Innocentius could be nullified and not regenerated by mana.

All of this was the reason that Touma learned about using the Imagine Breaker to 'disrupt' the regenerating items. Like how he grabbed Accelerator's wings and disrupted the esper's calculations.
omega253 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 11:19   Link #1688
versionf
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.LocK View Post
And, we had never been enlightened by Kamachi as to what these black wings are. Also, Kamijou punched Accel only once in their second battle. It was enough to knock lost albino out. Don't really get where you're coming from.
Doesn't really matter what it is, the source is still Personal Reality, also doesn't really matter if that's true, if IB works as you say it should seal off any attempt of using any supernatural power, so the wings should disappear or cut off after Accel was touched by IB.
versionf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 12:42   Link #1689
allfictions
Of Infinite Resignation
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Canada
Age: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by versionf View Post
Doesn't really matter what it is, the source is still Personal Reality, also doesn't really matter if that's true, if IB works as you say it should seal off any attempt of using any supernatural power, so the wings should disappear or cut off after Accel was touched by IB.
Again, not if the power is too massive or regenerate faster than IB's cancelling speed.
allfictions is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 13:01   Link #1690
R.LocK
My turn
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by versionf View Post
Doesn't really matter what it is, the source is still Personal Reality, also doesn't really matter if that's true, if IB works as you say it should seal off any attempt of using any supernatural power, so the wings should disappear or cut off after Accel was touched by IB.
IB has limiters. Next, do we consider wings a part of Accel's body now? I hope not, because it's just silly. I'd remind you that I was talking about ESP-related abilities not working while Touma hold an Esper's hand/leg/any-other-part-of-body-you-can-think-of.
Again, you bring up the point without quoting the source. Re-read the second fight between Accel and Kamijou, please. How many times did Kamijou punch Accel? Just once, which was the ending move of the fight. After that there was no mention of wings whatsoever.

Now then, re-read Railgun ch.3, pages 20-21. I'm sure that Mikoto doesn't generate electricity just in one part of her body which means there should be some sparkles from, for example, other hand or banges (classic for the great Railgun). Do you see them? I don't.
R.LocK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 14:09   Link #1691
Miraluka
Even after hope's lost...
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 24
For espers their power comes from their brain that's why even in novels electricity comes first from Mikoto's head/bangs.

During Touma's second fight against Accelerator, the former punched Accelerator twice, the first time caused a shockwave that throw away both Touma and Accelerator and the second time Accelerator got k.o.
__________________
Your last hope!
Miraluka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 14:36   Link #1692
Ashaman
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.LocK View Post

Now then, re-read Railgun ch.3, pages 20-21. I'm sure that Mikoto doesn't generate electricity just in one part of her body which means there should be some sparkles from, for example, other hand or banges (classic for the great Railgun). Do you see them? I don't.
Yeah, you don't see sparks because she's trying to shock him directly through his right hand, which fails because his right hand negates it.

Though I will admit, the phrasing she uses is strange while describing this phenomenon. "The electricity can't be released"

Not "I can't use my power" or "The electricity is negated"

How strange.

Either way, if that's your only proof to your assertion that IB seals an Espers powers its very much inadequate.
__________________
Ashaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 16:10   Link #1693
versionf
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.LocK View Post
IB has limiters. Next, do we consider wings a part of Accel's body now? I hope not, because it's just silly. I'd remind you that I was talking about ESP-related abilities not working while Touma hold an Esper's hand/leg/any-other-part-of-body-you-can-think-of.
Again, you bring up the point without quoting the source. Re-read the second fight between Accel and Kamijou, please. How many times did Kamijou punch Accel? Just once, which was the ending move of the fight. After that there was no mention of wings whatsoever.

Now then, re-read Railgun ch.3, pages 20-21. I'm sure that Mikoto doesn't generate electricity just in one part of her body which means there should be some sparkles from, for example, other hand or banges (classic for the great Railgun). Do you see them? I don't.
No I considered his wings his power, that's why I said it should disappear or cut off, according to your claim of Personal Reality being sealed by IB. Rensa can use them, it's pretty safe to assume it's ESP-related, whether they're next level of esper power, or something else mixed in by Aleister, their base is still Personal Reality and AIM.

Quote:
The Level 0 charged in to where his fist could reach his opponent.

Accelerator raised one of his black wings.

The two attacks flew past each other, and the Level 0’s attack hit only an instant earlier. Accelerator’s face got blown backwards, and he lost his balance. The black wing’s path got diverted slightly, and missed the Level 0 by millimeters.
In that Railgun scene she was trying to release electricity directly from her right hand to IB.
versionf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 16:49   Link #1694
allfictions
Of Infinite Resignation
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Canada
Age: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by versionf View Post
The Level 0 charged in to where his fist could reach his opponent.

Accelerator raised one of his black wings.

The two attacks flew past each other, and the Level 0s attack hit only an instant earlier. Accelerators face got blown backwards, and he lost his balance. The black wings path got diverted slightly, and missed the Level 0 by millimeters.
Again, massive powers > IB
allfictions is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 17:02   Link #1695
omega253
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Y'know what, screw it. I'm going to try to bring this debate to an end with an excerpt from the Imagine Breaker article on the TAMNI wiki.

"So far there are only a few attacks which can "surpass" Kamijou Touma's Imagine Breaker power canceling speed, as such he is unable to completely destroy them despite continued exposure to the Imagine Breaker. Index's Dragon Breath[14], Stiyl's Innocentius[15], Fiamma's flaming sword[16], and Accelerator's wings in his awakened state.[17] The Curtana Original's Dimensional Cleavage Formula is a different case, as it does not fall under the 'surpassing cancelling speed' category, but 'After this window of opportunity it can't be negated' category. It would imply that the phenomenon that Curtana had brought upon have become normalized and is no longer considered a supernatural phenomena. Kanzaki stated Imagine Breaker can negate a dimensional cutter attack if it comes into contact within 1.25 seconds.[Exact citation needed]

During his trip to Russia, Touma makes use of the Imagine Breaker's limitations. Due to Imagine Breaker not fully negating supernatural phenomena, Touma has learned to use the Imagine Breaker to interfere via "negation and disruption". Touma made use of this when he battles Accelerator in Russia. Normally, Imagine Breaker negates any supernatural power or object upon contact, but because of its limits, if a supernatural power/object is sufficiently powerful or massive enough in size it will not be completely negated right away as it will take a longer time to fully defeat. It's during this state of cancellation that Touma can actually physically touch or grab the power/object, negating and disrupting it instead of instantly destroying or completely ridding of it right away. This, of course, is usually more of a disadvantage than an advantage of Imagine Breaker. Still, during Touma's fight with Accelerator in Russia, Touma pulled one of Accelerator's black wings to throw Accelerator off balance and dodge the attack when Accelerator struck Touma with 100 wings that he summoned. That single touch was capable of negating the vector controlling power of said wing as well.[Exact citation needed]"

Is that good enough?
omega253 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 17:24   Link #1696
OH&S
Chief Safety Inspector
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.LocK View Post
Now then, re-read Railgun ch.3, pages 20-21. I'm sure that Mikoto doesn't generate electricity just in one part of her body which means there should be some sparkles from, for example, other hand or banges (classic for the great Railgun). Do you see them? I don't.
As many have already pointed out, Mikoto was specifically targetting IB in that case. I had already thought of that before I started posting.
__________________
Toaru Series Calendar: A Certain Unified Calendar - <UPDATED JUNE 2014>

Toaru Series 10 Years: Light Novel Anniversary MAD* - Index:NT10 X asdfmovie
OH&S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 19:28   Link #1697
versionf
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by allfictions View Post
Again, massive powers > IB
But that's irrelevant, I wasn't talking about IB vs wings. Before this becomes "his power to use his power is too strong", let's look at OH&S's example from NT3, and that Ellis didn't disappear after Sherry got punched.
versionf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 19:51   Link #1698
Miraluka
Even after hope's lost...
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by versionf View Post
But that's irrelevant, I wasn't talking about IB vs wings. Before this becomes "his power to use his power is too strong", let's look at OH&S's example from NT3, and that Ellis didn't disappear after Sherry got punched.
When Sherry got punched, Ellis lost control making Index unable to use Spell Intercept on Ellis.
__________________
Your last hope!
Miraluka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-19, 19:56   Link #1699
allfictions
Of Infinite Resignation
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Canada
Age: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by versionf View Post
But that's irrelevant, I wasn't talking about IB vs wings. Before this becomes "his power to use his power is too strong", let's look at OH&S's example from NT3, and that Ellis didn't disappear after Sherry got punched.
But you were implying that touching Accelerator should've dispelled the wings.
And actually, OH&S's exemple confused me as it makes no sense with the volume s/he was speaking of. Quote anyone?

Anyway, the fact that Ellis didn't disappear is because Ellis has an automatic mode:

Quote:
Right now, Ellis was in automatic mode, and wouldn't accept her orders. In other words, even the most basic order of 'self-destruct' would be ignored. Unless they destroyed the 'secret code' safety mechanism or destroy more than 90% of Ellis' body, Ellis wouldn't be stopped.
meaning, it can function without Sherry supplying it with mana.

Now I'm getting really confused as to what you are arguing about.
allfictions is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-20, 00:56   Link #1700
R.LocK
My turn
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
My theory got debunked. Duh, need to think more about that...

Now then, it doesn't matter how Mikoto wanted to release electricity. If she plays it safe, she'd release it via skin because it's a good isolator, but it's enough to shock someone. If she releases it internally, then she'd potentially wreck her arm and insides of Touma. Seriously now, it's an obvious choice for Mikoto.
R.LocK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
hard science, magic

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.