Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Archived Discussion

[Seitsuki]

Generally I'm against Amazon because of their shipping (MUST be EMS or higher tier), which usually makes my potential purchases cheaper than the shipping costs.

What I use (since there are jack all dedicated shops in NZ) is usually a proxy. Fromjapan was great, I got a ton of doujins off them (until they banned Toranoana from their list q_q) but I still use them for novels/figures/chara goods etc.

This however is hopefully something closer to home (and therefore cheaper) for you. Just search 魔法科 under Japanese books.

[larethian]

Originally Posted by Chimurry

Whoahh!!, Nice Cacht!, so: they using on Vol 11 (freshmen year) the image of Tats on Second Year at Engineer Class, but only from one seller company, I really did amateur mistake looking left side instead right side of the cover, adding the fact with Jap letters.

Yup. That's why we'll probably get a new and different cover for volume 12 when double seven arc starts.

And I'm pleased to own that supplementary cover

[Ultragunner]

Originally Posted by Seitsuki

Generally I'm against Amazon because of their shipping (MUST be EMS or higher tier), which usually makes my potential purchases cheaper than the shipping costs.

What I use (since there are jack all dedicated shops in NZ) is usually a proxy. Fromjapan was great, I got a ton of doujins off them (until they banned Toranoana from their list q_q) but I still use them for novels/figures/chara goods etc.

This however is hopefully something closer to home (and therefore cheaper) for you. Just search 魔法科 under Japanese books.

Thank you . But now I have somewhat a dilemma, on ebay there is a set of vol 1-10 for about $121 AUD (used but in good condition). But should I go for the brand new ones albeit more expensive. Each book from the store costs about $13-$14 (not including delivery charges)......

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

And when I said that the author is trying to specifically counter Tatsuya people just call me a tatsuya fan(And I still don't get why Gram Demolition couldn't break through the armour).

Gram Demolition doesn't work because the armor was basically another localized Gram Demolition. You know that parable about the sword which can pierce anything and the shield which can block anything clashing? Same idea.

This is also why I want Tatsuya to master using Material Burst on small target areas which will allow him to do omnidirectional attacks, hit non-physical beings and the blast cannot be shield with a psion armour since the effect isn't magic.

The problem with Material Burst is that even on a few GRAMS of mass, it would cause an explosion that would kill everyone in a large area. A speck of dust is probably enough to destroy several houses. That's the reason for Third Eye, so that he can do it from a safe distance. Trying to use it in a duel would just get himself killed.

Also, why would you think it would work on non-physical beings?

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by Rasen

What I was trying to say (ineffectively, apparently), is that society probably developed an aversion to sibling incest when the children born from them ended up with weird diseases and deformities.

Cousins only have a slightly increased chance of birth defects, but direct blood relatives (parents, siblings, children) have a significantly higher chance of giving birth to children with congenital birth defects.

The problem is that when you have such similar DNA, the damaged or defective parts that would usually be ignored because of their recessive traits, have a higher chance of being matched because of the similar DNA.

How about marrying each others and having sex but NOT having children???
That's a common solution for every accidental incest family and homosexual family at the present (real life).

Or just make Miyuki infertility for a good measureIF (that's a big "if") genetic modification somehow DOES NOT exist in future. Why? So no f*ckers can b*tch about she has duty to give good off-springs to the country or how can't she marry her brother.

Pretty sure she is very happy to do that. Two birds one stone.

Originally Posted by bludvein

Why do you people want to get rid of Mayumi? Her dad is a bit of an ass but she has been on Tat's side pretty much the whole time. Even going as far as to hide info about him from her father.

Besides, she is a troll, and troll characters are fun.

May be because she has a big sign right in front of her chest says :"Here comes the troubles!!!"

Every time Tatsuya is with her, she askes him to do some troublesome things for her.
Really, does she does anything beside asking for help?
Leo, Mikihiko and Mizuki may be small fries compared to her but at least they are trying to be independence.
Mayumi and Mari, now Kanon aren't even trying to not be "the Load".

IMO, she is overrated by many people in the desperation of finding Miyuki's replacement for Tatsuya.

[whsie]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

And when I said that the author is trying to specifically counter Tatsuya people just call me a tatsuya fan(And I still don't get why Gram Demolition couldn't break through the armour).
This is also why I want Tatsuya to master using Material Burst on small target areas which will allow him to do omnidirectional attacks, hit non-physical beings and the blast cannot be shield with a psion armour since the effect isn't magic.

The author does and has to do that. Otherwise, Tats is simply too overpowered compared to his peers. A long range fight against Tomitsuka or a short range fight with cover against Ichijou are all one-sided fights in the making.

To balance it, the author has to select the right venue, right range, and place the right limiters so that we can have an enjoyable fight.

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by whsie

The author does and has to do that. Otherwise, Tats is simply too overpowered compared to his peers. A long range fight against Tomitsuka or a short range fight with cover against Ichijou are all one-sided fights in the making.

To balance it, the author has to select the right venue, right range, and place the right limiters so that we can have an enjoyable fight.

That's what i hate most : NERF.

Why the hell does he have to compete with his "peers"? They are scrubs, they should sit around a corner and cry for all i cares while the authors can entertain us with Tatsuya vs REAL professional and well-disciplined military forces, clan's assassin, mafia and triads,... with his military buddies.
He is 10 years more mature than his ages and he would hang out with people 10-years older than him- the REAL men, REAL soliders . Not some pubescence kids try to act tough. b

The novel has so much potential and much bigger playground and now it is so small and so implorable.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

How about marrying each others and having sex but NOT having children???
That's a common solution for every accidental incest family and homosexual family at the present (real life).

That's not a "solution," especially in RL. No court recognizes marriages between siblings, even accidental ones. And in the MKNR world, they call bloomers a relic of the "immoral times."(current day for us). My point is simply, they're living in even more puritanical times than we do.

Or just make Miyuki infertility for a good measureIF (that's a big "if") genetic modification somehow DOES NOT exist in future. Why? So no f*ckers can b*tch about she has duty to give good off-springs to the country or how can't she marry her brother.

Pretty sure she is very happy to do that. Two birds one stone.

I disagree strongly. First, Miyuki has a pretty strong sense of duty to her family. Second, how do you think Miyuki would react to the idea of mini-Tatsuya's? My guess is that she wants them like a fat guy on a diet wants a cheeseburger.

[Jirachier]

Originally Posted by Rasen

Gram Demolition doesn't work because the armor was basically another localized Gram Demolition. You know that parable about the sword which can pierce anything and the shield which can block anything clashing? Same idea.

In the case of the sword that can pierce anything and the shield that can block anything, if they were to face each other one of the two HAS to win, and in this situation it should've been Tatsuya's Gram Demolition

The problem with Material Burst is that even on a few GRAMS of mass, it would cause an explosion that would kill everyone in a large area. A speck of dust is probably enough to destroy several houses. That's the reason for Third Eye, so that he can do it from a safe distance. Trying to use it in a duel would just get himself killed.

Third Eye is necessary because he's aiming at stuff that are super far away that while he could aim for them with Elemental Sight, it just would take a long time to aim with it, but if it's aiming at something microscopic with Elemental Sight that is just a few meters away he should be able to do it.

Also, why would you think it would work on non-physical beings?

I meant like the parasites, he couldn't really hit them since Mist Dispersion could not locate them in the information dimension, but if he uses a mini-material burst and blow up their host to dust that would be effective.

Originally Posted by whsie

The author does and has to do that. Otherwise, Tats is simply too overpowered compared to his peers. A long range fight against Tomitsuka or a short range fight with cover against Ichijou are all one-sided fights in the making.

To balance it, the author has to select the right venue, right range, and place the right limiters so that we can have an enjoyable fight.

That is exactly my point, why does the author feel the need to make Tatsuya like that ? seriously, he spends so many volumes and so much time praising Tatsuya, how he is an elite among elite, someone with uber classified abilities that no one posesses but then the next day he wants his peers to be able to compete with him ? Like seriously what is the point ? why do so many authors feel the need to have people the same age as the protagonist being able to take him on, He is an uber genius that probably appears once every few centuries, of course it shouldn't be possible to fight him in the same age class.

And personally I hate these fights, how can I enjoy something where the protagonist is either being restricted to death or being trolled by the author ?
If he was fighting like say someone regarded as one of the strongest magicians in the world and he barely won I wouldn't mind, i would enjoy the fight a lot, but the way the author makes tatsuya a god then wants his peer to be able to fight him is irritating as hell

I hope the author stops trying to counter tatsuya

[blackwhite67]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

I hope the author stops trying to counter tatsuya

As you said, the author praises Tatsuya's hax abilities so what more can he do? The only way to take it a step further would be to put Tatsuya under restrictions, pit him against opponents whom his magic is ineffective against, and have him come out on top. There's no better way to demonstrate Tatsuya's combat prowess than having him demonstrate his resourcefulness and adaptability.

Besides, I wouldn't say that the author is specifically countering him. Tomitsuka's magic, Lina's Parade, and the parasite's unorthodox physiology is effective against all magicians, with the exception of those who do not have to cast spells directly on their targets. Also, you should remember that Tatsuya's magic is not really that special. Sure it's unorthodox and hax as hell, but like any other spell it has its weaknesses in the fact that it can be blocked or countered like any other spell.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

In the case of the sword that can pierce anything and the shield that can block anything, if they were to face each other one of the two HAS to win, and in this situation it should've been Tatsuya's Gram Demolition

That makes no sense. I was trying to avoid getting technical, but here we go.

Gram demolition is very simple. It is a ball of compressed psions thrown at some magic, that will shred the magic sequences. Tomitsuka's armor is also very simple. It is armor made of compressed psions.

Now, it is simply a matter of which is more tightly compacted. Since we know that Gram Demolition has a short effective range, it must be because the psions start to spread out over a distance. Tomitsuka's armor, on the other hand, keeps them all in the same relative location, always tightly packed. Basically, it's like Tatsuya is throwing a snowball against an ice wall.

Third Eye is necessary because he's aiming at stuff that are super far away that while he could aim for them with Elemental Sight, it just would take a long time to aim with it, but if it's aiming at something microscopic with Elemental Sight that is just a few meters away he should be able to do it.

And the reason why he aims at stuff super far away is because if he aims at something close by, he will kill himself.

And if you think taking aim at small things takes a long time, how long do you think it will take to aim at something MICROSCOPIC. He will get himself beaten while trying to aim.

[Jirachier]

Originally Posted by blackwhite67

As you said, the author praises Tatsuya's hax abilities so what more can he do? The only way to take it a step further would be to put Tatsuya under restrictions, pit him against opponents whom his magic is ineffective against, and have him come out on top. There's no better way to demonstrate Tatsuya's combat prowess than having him demonstrate his resourcefulness and adaptability.

Besides, I wouldn't say that the author is specifically countering him. Tomitsuka's magic, Lina's Parade, and the parasite's unorthodox physiology is effective against all magicians, with the exception of those who do not have to cast spells directly on their targets. Also, you should remember that Tatsuya's magic is not really that special. Sure it's unorthodox and hax as hell, but like any other spell it has its weaknesses in the fact that it can be blocked or countered like any other spell.


The other way is to pin him against truly broken opponent of his aunt's level and let us watch what is happening, what I hate is that the author just want to make teenagers able to fight him, that is the only reason he's making these students have counter abilities to his, nothing more(I don't know if you've read Id the greatest fusion fantasy, it's an amazing series and NO ONE near the protagonist's age is able to fight him one-on-one, not even a hundred to one but it was still amazing, why can't the author of mahouka just do the same since he made such a haxy character ?)

I remember in a volume the author himself said that Tatsuya's magic was peerless and even though he couldn't use anything else it was enough to let him dominate the battlefield, he explicitly said that his magic is hax lol so no, Tatsuya's magic does not really have that many weaknesses, more importantly to face magicians who posess a counter to every one of his magic at the same time is just too much.
And truly, the author is really countering Tatsuya on purpose, just think about it please, every time he faces an opponent who is supposed to be very strong this said foe happens to posess an ability Tatsuya will hate to face, what are the odds of that even happening this many times in a row, it's not like he faces a counter to him, then faces ones that aren't counter, then counter and so on, it's just counter after counter after counter.
While these magics do work on all other magicians too, the reason they would do so is not because they are direct counters to tatsuya, it's just because they are strong magics, so if Katsuto uses Phalanx and some magician couldn't penetrate it or anything it's because said magician just wasn't powerful enough(Also why do you think Phalanx is called specifically a combination of several spells, there is only one reason why the author made it so, there is NO other reason in existence than to make Tatsuya's disintegration be countered by it, it does not give him any other advantage in battle besides that).
Lina has Parade, any powerful magician would deal with it better than Tatsuya because they will have an omnidirectional attack, that's why Lina didn't even try to use Parade against Miyuki and it would not have worked against Mayumi or Katsuto either, it just happens that Tatsuya gets trolled by it.
Tomitsuka's barrier is like the last straw because with the other magics while the author was obviously countering Tatsuya the reason for tatsuya having a hard time at least made sense somehow because the explanation as to why he was in a difficult situation made sense.
This time he is facing someone who can use counter magic on zero range, something Tatsuya can also do from afar and with great mastery and can even spam it several times with absolute ease, but somehow none of his counter magic worked on it until his opponent used the marionnette magic ?.
Please think about it for one moment, if NO magic can truly penetrate his armour just like how it just happened with Tatsuya, doesn't this make this dude invincible against 99% of magicians ? but no, I would bet you anything that if he were to face someone like Myuki or Mayumi who in this case shouldn't be able to leave a single scratch on him, the author will somehow let them get a hit in even though it makes no sense if we follow his logic.

Originally Posted by Rasen

That makes no sense. I was trying to avoid getting technical, but here we go.

Gram demolition is very simple. It is a ball of compressed psions thrown at some magic, that will shred the magic sequences. Tomitsuka's armor is also very simple. It is armor made of compressed psions.

Now, it is simply a matter of which is more tightly compacted. Since we know that Gram Demolition has a short effective range, it must be because the psions start to spread out over a distance. Tomitsuka's armor, on the other hand, keeps them all in the same relative location, always tightly packed. Basically, it's like Tatsuya is throwing a snowball against an ice wall.

If you get technical that's when it makes no sense, this mock battle happened in super close range, hell Tomitsuka himself would've probably tried to do this battle as close as he can from Tatsuya, so even if we assume that Gram Demolition gets weaker the higher the rang then in this particular case that wouldn't be a problem.
As you said Gram Demolition is a ball that Tatsuya uses the amount of psion of an entire day worth of an average magician's and compresses it to a ball, but Tomitsuka's armor is what ? even if we assume he has more psion than an average magician to begin with it's an armour over his whole body, it's most definitely bigger than Gram Demolition so it's density is lower, second the author said that it didn't follow a structure, if it really didn't follow one it wouldn't be compressed and organized to the same level as Gram Demolition, so when Tatsuya shot a super compressed ball of psion against the armour, it should've broken through.




And the reason why he aims at stuff super far away is because if he aims at something close by, he will kill himself.

And if you think taking aim at small things takes a long time, how long do you think it will take to aim at something MICROSCOPIC. He will get himself beaten while trying to aim.

To begin with this would be a last resort that he uses when his other magics cannot hit, remember Tatsuya has Regrowth as a Trump Card, he can use that to give him enough time to aim, now because he's aiming at microscopic things isn't a problem, because Elemental Sight can do that just fine, the only problem Elemental Sight has is when aiming for stuff that are far away because it has to sort through a LOT of informations, if he's just trying to for example find something that has 100 micrograms 10 meters in from of him it should be MUCH MUCH MUCH easier than aiming for 50mg 80 kilometers away.
I am not saying it is easy, but it should be possible

And no, I'm not saying all of this because I'm a huge Tatsuya fan lol

[Rava]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

And no, I'm not saying all of this because I'm a huge Tatsuya fan lol

No, you're saying it because you're ignoring other lines in the spoiler.

Like this one.

- They charge at each other as soon as the match starts. Tats uses his CAD to cast Mist Dispersion on Tomitsuka to try it out, but as suspected, it doesn't work. No one else notices what he did, but Miyuki pales. Tats uses his Elemental Sight to see that there is a thick coat/armor of psions around Tomitsuka that protects him from magic being cast directly on him. This is because since birth, Tomitsuka has had some sort of a condition/defect with his psion channeling, that causes psions to gather densely around him and causes him to be unable to use ranged magic (this is a loose summary, I skimmed the technical jargon in this chapter). [...]

And this one.

- As they are fighting, Tomitsuka notices that the area of psions that he can use is widening and is surprised, since he's always thought that he can only do zero-range magics.

They tell you that the reason why Tomitsuka can't use ranged magic is because of that (essentially) Psion body-suit he's encased in.

So logically, if the area he can use Psions is widening, you are supposed to infer that the Psion suit is becoming less dense and slowly coming apart.

So Gram Demolition Psion density < Tomitsuka's Psion suit's initial density, thus Gram Demolition fails.

And then at the end, Tatsuya finally gives up and uses Gram Dispersion.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

If you get technical that's when it makes no sense, this mock battle happened in super close range, hell Tomitsuka himself would've probably tried to do this battle as close as he can from Tatsuya, so even if we assume that Gram Demolition gets weaker the higher the rang then in this particular case that wouldn't be a problem.

As you said Gram Demolition is a ball that Tatsuya uses the amount of psion of an entire day worth of an average magician's and compresses it to a ball, but Tomitsuka's armor is what ? even if we assume he has more psion than an average magician to begin with it's an armour over his whole body, it's most definitely bigger than Gram Demolition so it's density is lower, second the author said that it didn't follow a structure, if it really didn't follow one it wouldn't be compressed and organized to the same level as Gram Demolition, so when Tatsuya shot a super compressed ball of psion against the armour, it should've broken through.

Where are you basing your figures of "less dense than Gram Demolition" and that Tomitsuka has a smaller Psion Density count than Tatsuya? Even so, it doesn't matter.

Even if the Psion density count of Tomitsuka is less than Tatsuya, it has NO BEARING on density. If Tomitsuka only has 100 psions, but compresses it in an area of 1 cubic centimeter, it is STILL more dense than if Tatsuya has 1000 psions, but compresses it an area of 1 cubic decimeter (it would work out to 1 psion per cubic centimeter).

I'm pulling the numbers out of thin air, but the point is neither range nor Tatsuya's massive Psion count have any bearing on this argument. And the nature of Gram Demolition is that the moment it fires, it starts dissipating (at what rate, we don't know) lowering the density. In contrast, Tomitsuka's condition is constantly keeping his psions compressed, keeping the density constant.

Just remember, before you keep arguing, the author agrees with me. Because Gram Demolition FAILED. It's his world, we're just reading it.

To begin with this would be a last resort that he uses when his other magics cannot hit, remember Tatsuya has Regrowth as a Trump Card, he can use that to give him enough time to aim, now because he's aiming at microscopic things isn't a problem, because Elemental Sight can do that just fine, the only problem Elemental Sight has is when aiming for stuff that are far away because it has to sort through a LOT of informations, if he's just trying to for example find something that has 100 micrograms 10 meters in from of him it should be MUCH MUCH MUCH easier than aiming for 50mg 80 kilometers away.
I am not saying it is easy, but it should be possible

MUCH MUCH easier? I call bull. If you're going down to the molecular level, it's STILL billions and billions of stuff to sort through. In comparison, if he's aiming at something far far away, he just needs three global coordinates for the initial search, and then it's EXACTLY the same if the target was within arm's reach.

[Jirachier]

I did see those lines and I remember them.
But that's exactly my point, I would really like to understand how Tomistuka's psion armour is more dense than Tatsuya's Gram Demolition.
Tatsuya can use more psions overall and has to pack all of it in just a bullet rather than armour covering his entire body which will spread the amount of psions so really, I understand that the author's explanation is that the armour is denser, what I don't understand is how is such a thing can be done in practice with the informations we know, he just expects us to accept such an explanation without anything to back it up "hey I'm using less material and spreading it over a larger radius but hey, my wall is still denser ! you can't get through with your super compressed bullet !".

[blackwhite67]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

And no, I'm not saying all of this because I'm a huge Tatsuya fan lol

First of all, he already did. Tatsuya fought Lina who wasn't holding back and I don't think she was using Parade at the time. Second, even if the author surrendered to your complaints and pit Tatsuya against someone like his aunt in a no holds barred fight, you'd have to agree that it wouldn't be much of a fight in terms of both duration and content. Unless the opponent had some sort of countermeasure.

I love Id just as much as you, but you can't even compare it to Mahouka. Id is all about power. The more you power up, the faster you become and somehow it allows you to move faster than your opponent like DBZ, but the this allows the battles to be long and drawn out so as to satisfy the readers. Mahouka adheres to realism and practicality. Magic ability doesn't equate to magic combat ability, but you know all this already. The battles in Mahouka are all about compatibility. Tomitsuka's magic is not only a counter to Tatsuya and Shippou's, but also magic like Mayumi's.

Third, the author doesn't always pit Tatsuya against opponents he's weak to. He wasn't weak against Hattori or Ichijou. Everyone had trouble with the parasites except for Ancient Magic users and those afflicted with pushion sensitivity. It wasn't just Tatsuya who had a hard time. In the case of Lina's Parade, it wasn't that it was a counter to him so much as he lacked the ability to exploit the obvious countermeasure to it.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

I did see those lines and I remember them.
But that's exactly my point, I would really like to understand how Tomistuka's psion armour is more dense than Tatsuya's Gram Demolition.
Tatsuya can use more psions overall and has to pack all of it in just a bullet rather than armour covering his entire body which will spread the amount of psions so really, I understand that the author's explanation is that the armour is denser, what I don't understand is how is such a thing can be done in practice with the informations we know, he just expects us to accept such an explanation without anything to back it up "hey I'm using less material and spreading it over a larger radius but hey, my wall is still denser ! you can't get through with your super compressed bullet !".

Who says Tatsuya can super-compress anything? Also, it's not as if Tatsuya is firing off ALL his psions at once, so even if he has a higher overall psion count, it doesn't matter.

And even if it's super compressed, it STILL dissipates. Imagine holding a ball that is made of smaller rubber balls. You can compress it all you want in your hand, as soon as you let go, all the balls shoot out in opposite directions. In fact, the more you compress it, the faster the smaller balls shoot away when you let go. Gram Demolition is probably something similar, because the author has mentioned its limited range.

[waffler]

i feel like its kinda dumb how mahesvara turns thousands of soldiers into dust just by walking and raising his right hand and blows up the entire enemy army and strategic mage but has trouble against a small short seemingly weak teenage boy :/

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by waffler

i feel like its kinda dumb how mahesvara turns thousands of soldiers into dust just by walking and raising his right hand and blows up the entire enemy army and strategic mage but has trouble against a small short seemingly weak teenage boy :/

Think David and Goliath. Tomitsuka's armor is his stone.

[babbo3d]

am i the only one that thought that this fight happen is a good thing, Tatsuya can use it as a reference if he ever fights juumonji (i know that Juumonji is stronger don't get me wrong but the way they counter tatsuyas natural magic is the same) because like tats said to mikihiko magic (whether current or ancient) is not about weak or strong but about there strong or weak points (like rock-paper-scissors) so to to fight a certain magic you do not bring a stronger magic but one that counters it to begin with.