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Old 2013-08-10, 09:55   Link #2161
rulfo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nachtwandler View Post
Pocari_Sweat

It's too bland. And has almost zero character development(protag even degradeted IMHO).
Might accept the bland thing since the enjoyment of the series might be subjective to personal tastes, but....

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Originally Posted by Nachtwandler View Post
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And has almost zero character development(protag even degradeted IMHO).
Holy shit at the latter half. Hyouka really outshines almost every character development Disappearance has done to Kyon. And I mean it!

Please... Tell me you're joking. Please oh please. But leave that to the Hyouka thread please.
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Old 2013-08-10, 10:13   Link #2162
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Give me a proof. They just stated couple of obvious things in latter half. And thats all. I saw none character development. Only Hotaro degraded from cynical character to your typical teenage boy(although clever).
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Old 2013-08-10, 21:45   Link #2163
rulfo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nachtwandler View Post
Give me a proof. They just stated couple of obvious things in latter half. And thats all. I saw none character development. Only Hotaro degraded from cynical character to your typical teenage boy(although clever).
Degraded? I still won't call him normal. In case you were asking for proof. You already did. You already provided a sense of counter to your statement. Or did you plan on shooting yourself in the foot right from the start? Either way you're already confusing me.

Also I don't think you were paying attention to any of the themes that go by through each arc. For me, I view the first arc as nothing but a set up to roll the ball. It's the following arcs that start to build up. Let me give you an example of how the movie arc connects well to the Kanya festa arc for Oreki.

Spoiler for Hyouka spoilers:


If you were really trolling good job. You made me recall the series again.
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Old 2013-08-11, 00:18   Link #2164
Warm Mist
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Hyouka is hard to argue about specifically because it's a rare case where character development is gradual and made apparent in the way little mundane interactions between characters change their dynamics. Most anime just has a catalyst or trigger event of some sort, and that's where all the characterization/development is condensed, generally to little effect in overall dialogue or even subsequent narrative. So it's hard to pinpoint one event or episode in Hyouka to "demonstrate" how the characters change, when actually you would have to watch the whole show to get the proper experience.

@kyouray
I think lineart is much more pleasant in the CM, the show designs are too "clean" for their own good. Although that will probably vary in episodes depending on the sakkan, as always. Still it'd have been nice to have the looser style of Chise Kamoi informing the whole show.
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Old 2013-08-11, 00:52   Link #2165
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As I mentioned before, people who are not even fans of Kyoani enjoyed Hyouka. From my experience, it's the ONLY kyoani anime, where it doesn't rely upon their signature moe antics, silly gimmicks, exaggerated slapstick humour or melodrama for its appeal but rather an understated, gradual and subtle approach. Except for Chitanda, who was kinda moe bait but even she got development towards the end. It felt like I was watching a noitamina series at times but with a big ass budget.

I'm not even kidding when I say Hyouka is my favourite Kyoani of all time now. I like Haruhi but I'm not a particularily big fan of the franchise, I don't like Key and I careless about the K-on/Lucky Star/Nichijou/Chuunibyou type of series either. Which leaves me just FMP:TSR, which was also great but that was a very long time ago and Kyoani wasn't quite polished then.

People want proof? Go ask the likes of Reckoner and Guardian Enzo etc well. They are pretty critical of Kyoani themselves yet they also praise Hyouka.
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Old 2013-08-11, 01:12   Link #2166
ElCachicamo
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A lot people here doesn't understand the difference between stereotypes and archetypes, let alone character development. It's like music, most people are tone deaf but they like to criticise musicians all the time.

It doesn't matter how many frames you have or how big the budget is, if your storyboard is a piece of crap there's nothing you can do about it. That's the reason why most action scenes in Americans shows and movies are poop while low budget films from Hong Kong and other places in Asia are capable of much better action, what you need is talented people.

The last example of this was The Raid, a film from Indonesia directed by a Welsh guy. I recommend Seven samurai for the people interested in the language of the action scene, the last act(the battle) is a master class in the subject.

Kyoani just need talented guys like Ando behind the storyboards to deliver top notch action because they already have good animators. It's incredible how people are still discussing this shit after what Kyoani did in Free!, Chuu2 and Nichijou.
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Old 2013-08-11, 19:53   Link #2167
Warm Mist
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Kyoani doesn't hire freelancers, much less for an important position like the storyboard. You'll have to hope Ando retires from the industry at large and goes to work leisurely at Kyoani if you want the guy storyboarding their shows.

Besides that, action choreography is defined in the layout, which I'm pretty sure is always done by the animator in charge of the cut over at Kyoani. Sure, the enshutsu and even the overall director might correct it a bit, but if the layout is plain uninteresting there isn't much you can do with it as a key animator.
I think they still have a long way to go in terms of having interesting action choreography. Chuu2 was an attempt, but the fights there were still plagued with unnatural close-ups and obtrusive camera angles, there wasn't much room to let the animation develop.

The fight in Clannad AS episode 8 is probably the best example of a well-done fight in a Kyoani show. It shows a good understanding of how to place and manipulate the "camera", and the storyboard is restrained enough to let the animator do their thing while also maintaining a bit of dynamism. There's still a weird tracking shot IIRC, but it's much better than the stuff in Chuu2 IMO.
Coincidentally, the episode was storyboarded and directed by Ishidate, Kyokai's series director. He probably played a big part in that action scene, although I think the key animator for it was Nao Naitou.
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Old 2013-08-11, 21:08   Link #2168
kyouray
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Full Metal Panic's Mao vs Xia Yu Fan would be the first KyoAni fight coming to my mind (Kigami's episode but Ishidate helped for the direction) but Clannad AS's hand-to-hand fight sure is another good example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warm Mist View Post
I think lineart is much more pleasant in the CM, the show designs are too "clean" for their own good. Although that will probably vary in episodes depending on the sakkan, as always. Still it'd have been nice to have the looser style of Chise Kamoi informing the whole show.
It doesn't bother me that much but I can understand what you mean. Kamoi's design was better but it's easier for a TV series I think since the new design fits more KyoAni usual stuff.
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Old 2013-08-12, 04:02   Link #2169
Warm Mist
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The TSR fight is pretty good, but it's from 2005 and the studio was quite different back then. The AS fight is closer, that's why I highlighted it.

It's interesting that people like Satoshi Kadowaki and Gorou Sessha came from Kyoani. Especially Sessha who is quite the action buff. One wonders if there's actually more hidden talent in the studio that doesn't come to the surface due to the type of productions they make. We'll see.
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Old 2013-08-20, 08:22   Link #2170
Hyper
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My trip to the KyoAni main branch

Recently made a trip to Kyoto so I could not miss a chance to pay KyoAni headquarter a visit. I have no idea what size an animation studio in Japan is in general, but my first thought when I saw the yellow building was "it really is small." Basically the same size as the houses nearly. Pretty easy to get to though, so I think it's worth the time.

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When I was there, their car (in the picture) was out to get something and the person on the right came out to bring the package in. He offered to take a picture for me. I don't think I was lucky enough to meet one of the important staff, but he looked like a senior one so I should have asked for his name or picture nonetheless, just in case.

And finally (part of) the goods I bought from KyoAni shop.
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Old 2013-08-20, 14:37   Link #2171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
Recently made a trip to Kyoto so I could not miss a chance to pay KyoAni headquarter a visit. I have no idea what size an animation studio in Japan is in general, but my first thought when I saw the yellow building was "it really is small." Basically the same size as the houses nearly. Pretty easy to get to though, so I think it's worth the time.

Images
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
When I was there, their car (in the picture) was out to get something and the person on the right came out to bring the package in. He offered to take a picture for me. I don't think I was lucky enough to meet one of the important staff, but he looked like a senior one so I should have asked for his name or picture nonetheless, just in case.

And finally (part of) the goods I bought from KyoAni shop.
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I am incredibly jealous of you right now. I'm halfway across the globe, it'll take a long while before I can manage to do something similar.
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Old 2013-08-22, 05:00   Link #2172
Hyper
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I am incredibly jealous of you right now. I'm halfway across the globe, it'll take a long while before I can manage to do something similar.
I usually am as far away from Japan as you are, so don't be discouraged . As I said, the studio and the shop are very easy to get to (by train). It's just not on the usual tourist spots. You only need a couple hours, and a very little bit of Japanese. The girls at the shops when I was there obviously did not expect a non-Japanese speaking tourist, but they were very willing to try to help (like most Japanese I met actually).
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Old 2013-08-22, 15:33   Link #2173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
I usually am as far away from Japan as you are, so don't be discouraged . As I said, the studio and the shop are very easy to get to (by train). It's just not on the usual tourist spots. You only need a couple hours, and a very little bit of Japanese. The girls at the shops when I was there obviously did not expect a non-Japanese speaking tourist, but they were very willing to try to help (like most Japanese I met actually).
Sadly the financial situation in my country makes a trip to Japan a very difficult prospect. I plan to do it someday but I can't afford it on my current salary sadly.
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Old 2013-09-05, 03:33   Link #2174
rulfo
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So now that Kyoukai no Kanata is airing next month, what's next on the line?

I'm expecting a new CM coming up in the middle of the season.

If nothing shows up that would be interesting and leaves open for possibilities of work outside. But highly unlikely I guess.....
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Old 2013-09-05, 12:25   Link #2175
Kaisos Erranon
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If nothing shows up that would be interesting and leaves open for possibilities of work outside. But highly unlikely I guess.....
Yeah, I don't see them doing anything other than originals and KA Esuma adaptations again, but I'm fine with that. Mostly.
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Old 2013-09-05, 16:39   Link #2176
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Yeah, I don't see them doing anything other than originals and KA Esuma adaptations again, but I'm fine with that. Mostly.
Sadly I feel that you're right on the money. On the other hand I'm waiting to see what happens when some folks leave KyoAni to make their own studios (I'm betting this will happen eventually).
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Old 2013-09-06, 00:54   Link #2177
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Sadly I feel that you're right on the money. On the other hand I'm waiting to see what happens when some folks leave KyoAni to make their own studios (I'm betting this will happen eventually).
Eventually? Oh poor Ordet.
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Old 2013-09-06, 03:22   Link #2178
rulfo
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Sadly I feel that you're right on the money. On the other hand I'm waiting to see what happens when some folks leave KyoAni to make their own studios (I'm betting this will happen eventually).
*cough*
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Eventually? Oh poor Ordet.
Seriously.. What a waste... Guy went mad and self destructed. I wonder though, was there any clear reason why Yamakan got sacked in LS?

Some say he was just relieved from handling LS but not fired from KyoAni and that he left on his own accord. How true that story is, is beyond me...
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Old 2013-09-06, 03:49   Link #2179
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I wonder though, was there any clear reason why Yamakan got sacked in LS?

Some say he was just relieved from handling LS but not fired from KyoAni and that he left on his own accord. How true that story is, is beyond me...
I doubt that the full story will ever come out because Yamakan doesn't seem like he'd present a balanced view, and Kyoto Animation doesn't seem like the kind of company where they want to air their dirty laundry. But my guess, based on his actions and attitude that followed, was that it may have been a bit of a "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down" sort of thing. He just doesn't strike me as the sort of person who's good at following orders from management, and Kyoto Animation doesn't seem like the sort of place where there's really room for glory hounds. It wouldn't surprise me if he got into some argument with an important producer/sponsor and it caused a political backlash (the way the demotion was handled seems very much like a "you pissed off the wrong person" sort of thing). Demoting him from the director position is pretty much tantamount to firing him, but without outright doing so -- or I guess it's maybe like sending someone back to the little leagues when they think they've got what it takes to be a star. In the end, it was probably just better for him to go off and do his own thing; no better teacher than harsh reality.

Of course, again, I say all this just basing it on what we can see of what happened, and his attitude in the interviews and conversations that followed. It seems to fit, but who knows what really happened.
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Old 2013-09-06, 06:37   Link #2180
rulfo
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Well that would make sense if the rumor was true. Even though I liked how he handled Kannagi, I don't like the guy for being a sly prick.

On a side note though.


What's going on here?

Is this gonna be the new KyoAni shop page? Cause certainly, those new logos are kinda saying something. No Clannad. No Nichijou. No Hyouka. No K-ON!

Seems like work in progress but this will be interesting....
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