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Old 2013-08-22, 20:56   Link #23881
azul120
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
So what should she do? Compromise the peace Lelouch obtained by throwing a fit to make herself and angry fanboys pissed Lelouch died feel better?

What could she possibly gain from holding a grudge against Ougi and Viletta at that point? What's done is done, and there's no point getting angry at what might have happened otherwise.
It's a peace that's lesser than what could have been in more ways than one.

And Ohgi and Villetta among others getting their just desserts could still be done without affecting the peace. Force Ohgi into resigning as Prime Minister, for starters.

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Originally Posted by Xander View Post
You're perfectly free to assume that, but she seemed to know little or nothing about it according to R2 episode 5.
Even so, it's possible C. C. knew, or had an idea. Besides, Kallen was hoping Villetta hadn't noticed her in R2 5, suggesting she might have had an idea herself.

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That's one possible interpretation, from an external observer, but her actions indicate a different thought process with another focus.

First, Kallen tried to defend Lelouch and die with him if necessary. Second, she was fooled by his lies and was willing to abandon him once he pushed her away. Third, she was confused by Lelouch's last words and tried to defend him again. Fourth, Kallen expressed her doubts about what Ohgi and the other Black Knights had done, but she still felt conflicted and wished to talk to Lelouch again. Fifth, they talk and there's a kiss but nothing happens. And finally, Lelouch pulls off the Evil Emperor act and she realizes it is necessary to stop him.

If Lelouch had been willing to be more forthcoming with her, perhaps Kallen would have calmed down or assumed the attitude you're suggesting. But we can tell her mind was too full of anxiety and uncertainty about Lelouch during a lot of the post-betrayal events, which tends to preclude making a big deal about what you're mentioning, since that requires firmly knowing he is actually right.



On the contrary, I find it entirely plausible for her character as portrayed in the series. Kallen is a very emotional girl and while she did love Lelouch, it was a relationship marked by a lot of tension and conflicting thoughts. I've already addressed the Villetta angle above.
What about the ending, if nothing else, when she DID figure it out?
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Old 2013-08-22, 21:04   Link #23882
Xander
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
And Ohgi and Villetta among others getting their just desserts could still be done without affecting the peace. Force Ohgi into resigning as Prime Minister, for starters.
Kallen is in no position to force Ohgi to resign, even if you somehow expected her to do so.

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Even so, it's possible C. C. knew, or had an idea. Besides, Kallen was hoping Villetta hadn't noticed her in R2 5, suggesting she might have had an idea herself.
Doubtful, if only because Kallen didn't want to be noticed by anyone, not just Villetta.

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What about the ending, if nothing else, when she DID figure it out?
She was shocked by the whole thing and cried over Lelouch's death, but she understood the underlying point of it. And acknowledged Suzaku as the new Zero in tears.

Which suggests she values the plan more than settling the scores for the sake of...well, not much. Dead or alive, Lelouch's not coming back.
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Old 2013-08-23, 05:18   Link #23883
Blackmambauk
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ok I think both of you make good points, me personally I agree with both of you to some degree but here's my two cents.

Well while yes it is frustrating that the show didn't really explain the full details of Zero requiem, and some of the holes in the plan (i.e. Lelouch somehow gets more hatred on him in a few months than his dad did in 20 years of ruling. what did he do bomb all the major cities with Flejia, or something else like that). That he seems to have set up a system with geassed nobles, (which brings up the morality of said action in some peoples eyes.)

ymmv the believably of the ending (for reasons mentioned above) along with stuff like the wedding photo that seems to imply years of war, hatred etc. just was all solved because of one man's actions (yeah hatred for the Germans and the Nazi didn't die with Hitler) not to mention who's wedding it is.

along with the frustration that Ohgi and Viletta along with a few others simply didn't earn their endings, plus the ending coming off as in some ways (for me anyway) insanely happy, too happy in a way inn my view, but if you like the ending that's fine nothing wrong with that, it's certainly memorable that's for sure.

Yeah it can be easy to view Code Geass ending that way, the fact they rushed through at least half of r2 certainly didn't help, the fact that because they had to do the first few episodes the way they did them because they changed timeslots, which affected the writing as they had to cut down on the grittiness of R1, along with cutting subplots that might have been interesting like Kallen's father and maybe brother appearing (that would've been nice to see and find out how he did survive).

but we got what we got at the end of the day, at least Kallen got a happy ending, at least her's feel's earned in my book.

Well at least there's fanfiction for those who want it different, myself included (which is why I write fanfic's on Code Geass), it would've been nice if code Geass writers was able to do more with the stuff they had, but oh well.

Anyway's I have read that Kallen appears in Oz the reflection, or at least her Guren does, nice to see some elaboration what she was doing between r1 and r2, what do you you guys think of this.
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Old 2013-08-23, 07:14   Link #23884
Fireminer
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Karma is a Bitch, indeed. And look like the Godess of Justice is really blind...

Anyway, Kallen in Oz? Do you mean her, or just the Gurren Mk.II? If that is true, then it would probally a step in C.C plan to regroup Black Knight.

And the ending... Wonder what would happened if CLAMP is the writer, not just character designer. Somehow, a Tsubasa-ending pop in my head.
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Old 2013-08-23, 08:02   Link #23885
Blackmambauk
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here's the link on the hobby japan site (the people who print out Oz the Reflection in Japan) it shows and mentions Kallen and her Knightmare.

http://www.hobbyjapan.co.jp/hobbyjap...episode11.html (you need a translator as it's in Japanese, Google one is rubbish so it's rough form what I have read of it.)

Also there's a picture of Cornelia's Gloucester knightmare in episode 13 have a look.

http://www.hobbyjapan.co.jp/hobbyjap...episode13.html

hope that helps.
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Old 2013-08-23, 13:11   Link #23886
azul120
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Originally Posted by Xander View Post
Kallen is in no position to force Ohgi to resign, even if you somehow expected her to do so.
The likes of Kaguya could do so, on grounds of treason and incompetence (which needn't be made public).
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Old 2013-08-23, 19:10   Link #23887
Bonzo
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I did Kaguya "cazzia" Ougi and the other black knights.
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Old 2013-08-23, 19:51   Link #23888
Syaokura
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Kaguya taking over Japan would've made a lot more sense than Ougi. Til this day, I still shake my head.

Anyway, since Suzaku and C.C. show up in the second Akito movie, I wonder if Kallen will get a cameo in the other parts, even if it's for a few seconds. I'll be a happy fan if she does.
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Old 2014-07-27, 14:28   Link #23889
Scherzo09
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A big thing I feel that Geass doesn't touch upon his the fact that, as much as she identifies as 100 percent, patriotic Japanese, she's still half-Britannian. I think there should've been a lot more conflict for her; I feel it's a missed opportunity.
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