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Old 2013-08-25, 09:45   Link #1041
Gx Hero
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Someone complained about a catalyst being needed. In Fate zero another way was found using the snake skin of the first snake or something. anyway I think Fate stay night offers a good setup for stories.

also what is the Nasuverse's. sorry for being the new guy but I don't know what it is.
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Old 2013-08-25, 09:56   Link #1042
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Lhklan View Post
Yes, but they're not recorded in the Throne of Heroes, they're inside the Book of Darkness. If you're not in the Throne, forget it. The Grail doesn't summon heroes from any period, they summon copies of heroes that reside in the Throne.

And if Nanohaverse character didn't survive canon events, then the legend of that version doesn't exist - since they died before it can fully forms - so that too fall flat.
The legend could exist if the character doed after forming it's legend. Some heroes become legendary because of an heroic sacrifice so it's viable to summon a Nanoha character from a period after they became a legend. For example, RF6 elites became pretty renowed as heroes after the events of StrikerS if Nanoha or Vita died after accomplishing their tasks inside the Cradle they would be considered pretty much a legend. Hell, the mages of Section Six in FORCE are already shrouded in mith if the reaction of the Grendels is any indication.

In the same fashion any of the Wolks could be summoned from a period after they got released from the book.
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Old 2013-08-25, 10:09   Link #1043
Lhklan
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Originally Posted by Gx Hero View Post
Someone complained about a catalyst being needed. In Fate zero another way was found using the snake skin of the first snake or something. anyway I think Fate stay night offers a good setup for stories.

also what is the Nasuverse's. sorry for being the new guy but I don't know what it is.
... The snake skin of the first snake IS the cataclyst for summonig Gilgamesh.

Nasuverse refers to the multiverse created by Kinoko Nasu, including Tsukihime, Fate/Stay Night, Kara no Kyoukai (different universe than Tsukihime), Notes (Which cranks up the power level to absurd level). There's a few more, but those are at the most famous.

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Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
The legend could exist if the character doed after forming it's legend. Some heroes become legendary because of an heroic sacrifice so it's viable to summon a Nanoha character from a period after they became a legend. For example, RF6 elites became pretty renowed as heroes after the events of StrikerS if Nanoha or Vita died after accomplishing their tasks inside the Cradle they would be considered pretty much a legend. Hell, the mages of Section Six in FORCE are already shrouded in mith if the reaction of the Grendels is any indication.

In the same fashion any of the Wolks could be summoned from a period after they got released from the book.
True. They still have to be dead and ascended to the Throne though.
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Old 2013-08-25, 10:38   Link #1044
Gx Hero
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Thank you.

still Besides fate/stay night x nanoha which seems to be a popular topic for cross over some of the ones I want to see more of is

Negima/ Nanoha

Madoka / Nanoha


Cardcaptors/ Nanoha

Tsubasa / Nanoha
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Old 2013-08-25, 11:05   Link #1045
Sheba
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Originally Posted by Lhklan View Post
... The snake skin of the first snake IS the cataclyst for summonig Gilgamesh.
I'd add that, according to the Epic of Gilgamesh, a snake have eaten the immortality flower (iirc) that Gilgamesh have sought after Enkidu died. He got it from the man who have survived the Flood.

I am not sold on the Nanoha cast being Heroes that can be summoned, because they don't have done things that can be considered as "Legendary" or acknowledged by the people as legendary.

Shakespeare as Caster in Apocrypha is a strange case unless you can stretch that his contributions to the world's litterature are so much that it became the stuff of legends. Which is why I find it tempting to make Howard Philips Lovecraft a Caster class servant, he have created a mythos that have marked the decades to come and is one who could have died with a regret, having died almost ignored by everyone.

I.E, Arturia wanted to redo her life, Zero Lancer wanted to serve his master till the bitter end and do it good, Zero Berserker blamed himself for all the bad things that happened to his kingdom, etc... So it bring me to something. Do you honestly see any of the Nanoha canon cast dying with a regret, and Tsuzuki deciding that something have gone HORRIBLY WRONG in the future (hint: It's Tsuzuki lol, not bloody likely)?

Edit:

And I forgot about one of the Caster in Extra who is also about in the same league as Shakespeare.

Edit 2:

I can see people going "But Fate, Wolkies, others have had terrible lives before!", excepted that they eventually got their happy end. Did you see it in any of the Servants' backstories? Mostly not.

Last edited by Sheba; 2013-08-25 at 11:29.
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Old 2013-08-25, 11:32   Link #1046
Tiresias
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Fate's issue is a bit hard to happen, considering had Precia known Touko then Fate wouldn't even exist. And even if we're doing full alternate story with no Nasu cast, Nasu artificial bodies are different from clones in that you can actually transfer souls into them, so Precia would actually do get Alicia back, and not a nearly-indentical twin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
In the same fashion any of the Wolks could be summoned from a period after they got released from the book.
Right, I'm already being very generous by ignoring Nasu's "no modern era Servants" and "Gaia is Earth exclusive" clauses, but this I have to had: the Servants can reject the summoning. Now, do you really think the Wolkenritter's would agree to being bound to servitude to a magus even momentarily? Considering how much they like being under Hayate, the answer to being under another lord is most likely a resounding no. Unless of course whatever manner of their death or event before it makes them want to Wish at the Grail, but you'll have to start thinking of reasons~

Also, I notice the speculations from the previous page are mostly the "good" guys being Servants. Yes, because they would certainly beat up each other instead of conspire against their Masters . Telepathy + Device-aided communications is versatile like that.

Lastly, just pointing this out before someone got too excited, but Reinforce 1 can't be a Servant. If anything, she's more Divine Spirit than Heroic Spirit, humanoid shape aside, and even if she somehow got summoned not even Illya can fully power her, so any dreams of her curbstomping with biggaton spells are pretty much dashed .
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Old 2013-08-25, 14:42   Link #1047
Gx Hero
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Um I had a thought about a fanfiction and I need some feedback, granted it will be in the I will write someday.

I was thinking of having a cardcaptor / Nanoha fanfiction where Vivio and Lutecia are enforcers and go with Hayate to earth to check out mysterious events, note in this story earth will have recently become an administrated world. Unless someone convinces me it shouldn't. Anyway Vivio and Lutecia, and Hayate team up with the cardcaptors to check out these mysterious events.


The other idea I had concerning this was Vivio ends up having to capture the cards

I wonder if I should write a story where Einheart meets Li's family.
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Old 2013-08-25, 15:43   Link #1048
aldw
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Originally Posted by Lhklan View Post
@aldw
Mostly because A: Nasuverse magic can get really broken sometimes (Reality Marble, Second Magic, Fifth Magic, etc...) and B: Most of the story involving Nasuverse takes place on Earth - meaning for a crossover to combine BOTH world and not just "drop somebody into another verse" the author had to use another Earth. And well, except for a few verses (To Aru, ...) there's not a lot that can outdo them.
I guess it shows how limited some people are in story crafting, as the Netherese in Forgotten Realms, Tenchiverse or the Avatars of Exalted could easily give them a run for the money as a case in point (which is why I like the Persona/Nasu crossovers since characters like Elizabeth would be an OCP for most). In the end though it really does go back to how being well-read (or equivalents) makes for better story crafting (as Chuck Jones would say).
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Old 2013-08-25, 16:28   Link #1049
Gx Hero
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I agree with that. Expanding horizons on possibilities. but in truth we don't need broken magic or power.

I guess though in the end it matters how it is written over the context. After all I am not a fan of angst fanfictions or war fanfictions, yet Future tense By kaijo is something that uses those elements and yet focuses on the plot making something extraordinary regardless if you like it or not.

I was thinking of wriing a fanfiction with Vivio with multiple broken powers, kamikazi ghosts, spirit gun, kamahomaha and use these techniques to make the story more entertaining besides axle shooter, divine buster or similar attacks that are either a shooter orb or buster cannon type attack.

Anyway I got ideas just not as good at writing and not as motivated as I want to be. Hopefully my ideas may spark others if nothing else.


THough not that I think bout it imagine gotanks from dbz fighting Nanoha. It would be really entertaining with the way he acts.
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Links to other Nanoha stories on animesuki

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Old 2013-08-25, 19:58   Link #1050
Lhklan
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Originally Posted by aldw View Post
I guess it shows how limited some people are in story crafting, as the Netherese in Forgotten Realms, Tenchiverse or the Avatars of Exalted could easily give them a run for the money as a case in point (which is why I like the Persona/Nasu crossovers since characters like Elizabeth would be an OCP for most). In the end though it really does go back to how being well-read (or equivalents) makes for better story crafting (as Chuck Jones would say).
While I don't argue that those verses you mentionned will give them a run for their money, it doesn't exactly shows people as being limited in story crafting.

First off, this is FANfiction. Meaning it's not official work. Meaning that it's something people do for fun, not profit. And let's be honest, if it involves too much work, even something that started out fun could become a nightmare.

Second, time. They don't just sit around and writes fanfic you know, they still have RL stuff to do, like work, school, family, etc...

@Sheba
From the third War onwards, the Grail started to malfunction already. Apocrypha just worsen the problem when the family took it away from Fuyuki. OTOH, Extra Grail isn't the same, it's actually Moon Cell - a computer - behind it. So that can explain why the Servants are different from the rules.
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Old 2013-08-25, 20:33   Link #1051
Gx Hero
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Writing Fanfiction isnot easy either, regardless of how much I gripe it is not easy, though with crossovers I feel their can be a little more options. However if your going to write a fanfiction write it well and let it shine.

Still it would be nice for more fanfictions but lhkan is right people have real life stuff they have to take care of.

Maybe I can become good enough to write those fanfictions and post them here for people to see.
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Old 2013-08-25, 20:35   Link #1052
Tiresias
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It shows how limited people are in story-crafting in that most x vs y discussions will involve the strongest tier beings of each verse, as if middle grade protags doesn't exist, followed by "my favorite overpowered character/squad/planet/civilizations can curbstomp to yours" arguments. Because clearly, such one-sidedness makes for an itneresting story.
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Old 2013-08-25, 20:55   Link #1053
Lhklan
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@Tiresias
True. So very true.

And sometime there are authors who just forget mechanics/concepts and go straight into "lol powerlevels"
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Old 2013-08-26, 03:03   Link #1054
bhl88
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There's one way the Wolks can be summoned as Heroic Spirits....

Hayate:
Anti-world EX reality Marble

Hayate's Lesbian Army of the Section 6.

Summon all 10 Heroic Spirits and 1 Spirit under the level of "Natural Disaster" (Reinforce should be ranked: "Natural disaster or something") and several other Minor Heroic Spirits with Independent Action rank C (will disappear for one day... or probably within Reality Marble)
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Old 2013-08-26, 05:07   Link #1055
Tiresias
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Unless Section 6 got really really really really really really really really famous, more famous than legendary military formations of Old Belka...nope, not seeing it.
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Old 2013-08-26, 06:58   Link #1056
Lhklan
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Agree with Tiresias.

Not to mention that the bonds between them have to be really really really really tight.

And no, it does not make it Anti-World or even EX. At best, it's an Anti-Army/Anti-Fortress A rank.
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Old 2013-08-26, 08:09   Link #1057
Gx Hero
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Well section six is famous Read Force the grendal family knew the three aces from the cradle incedent, certaintly they were mentioned.

I agree though it isn't always though power levels. People tend to forget how the minor charecters work or there isn't enough on them so they are given roles that are questionable or not like them for goo or ill. Such As lutecia in Radiant beams shaodw verse is a shadow. Since then people have writen stories that have her in it as a Shadow and it sort of stuck. Or how any story with Hayate with a lead role is in war for most stories, Granted I could be wrong and narrow minded.


Though I wonder if a negima nanoha fanfiction using SUbaru, Erio, Caro, Lutecia, Vivio and Tea would be interesting. Heck Negi can be a combat instructor.

Oh and in response to Bhl88 there is already a reality marble like that. RIder from Fate zero when he killed assassin . Now take your idea except have all of Hayate's friends there.

I wonder if a tenchi Nanoha fanfiction is possible or if it would be to difficult


Also there should be a fanfiction when TOmoyo from card captors meets Hayate and the horros of Sakura, and wolkienriter being cosplay models.

"Signum I think that battle costume looks good on you."
"Mistress why do I have to fight wearing this..."
"BEcause I think it might be better on you than your knight armor."
"But..."
"WOuld you rather wear the numbers suits."
"Of course not mistress."
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Old 2013-08-26, 20:37   Link #1058
bhl88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lhklan View Post
Agree with Tiresias.

Not to mention that the bonds between them have to be really really really really tight.

And no, it does not make it Anti-World or even EX. At best, it's an Anti-Army/Anti-Fortress A rank.
If they don't have their limiters, yes, it's anti-world. EX? Probably not.

Yes, it indeed is up to 10 people (counting 2 Aces, 4 Wolks and 4 Forwards... not yet counting Eins [as Eins is on the level of "worldly/natural disaster" and Zwei]).
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Old 2013-08-26, 20:50   Link #1059
Gx Hero
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Heck Have her ability be able to summon EIns in her full destructive glory.

But Hayate has a lot of bombardment spells. Plus most of the spells Eins uses were copied from the book, which hayate still has. There fore is second to being over kill on her own.


Anyway enough anti world stuff lets move on to another topic.

Such as should Signum and Saber actualy meet. The impending duel that will happen between these knights. Heck the potential rivalry and dynamics of these charecters might make a nice scene in a story.

Then there is Hayate scolding Ilyia for being a bad girl. Picks her up by the shirt. "now now litle girls shouldn't hurt people." while waging a finger.
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Old 2013-08-26, 21:40   Link #1060
Tiresias
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The only reason Sikander could get his army as a Noble Phantasm was that they managed to perform a legendary conquest that no one has done before and become immortalized for it. So if someone from the Nanohaverse should get an army as a Noble Phantasm, it will be one who had lead them to conquer multiple worlds and become an inspiration for later conquerors, perhaps the first Saint Emperor of Belka or later Emperors who managed to conquer the most at the shortest amount of time.

Compared to such feats, what RF6 had been through is just a skirmish . In conclusion...no, just no.
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