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Old 2013-09-06, 12:08   Link #141
Rainbowman
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So the strongest likely candidates are Bartolomeo and Chinjao's grandchildren Sai and Boo. I hope Luffy will be recruiting them.
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Old 2013-09-06, 12:21   Link #142
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Spoiler:

Barto is such a fangirl
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Old 2013-09-06, 13:55   Link #143
Dengar
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
I don't think I've used the term 'fact' once in my posts.
I never said you did. I said your choice of words is very factual. Especially the "you can either agree with me or be wrong" attitude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hidfe View Post
Will Luffy become Pirate King? Will Blackbeard be defeated? Will Dressrosa be freed from Doflamingo and so on?

Some things are so obvious that everybody knows it will happen because the Story demands them to happen because of the type of story and the flow of the story.

You see nobody arguing that Luffy will not become Pirate King and that Blackbeard is going to kill Luffy. Everybody who tries to argue that will be called out.
The reason nobody argues about that isn't because people magically "know" it's gonna happen. It's because the subject is too stupid to even think about.

Not to mention you are comparing apples and oragnes here.

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Originally Posted by Hidfe View Post
The same goes for Sabo being alive. Sabo is alive because he is. There is really no doubt about it even though we haven’t seen him yet, the same as Luffy becoming Pirate King even though we haven’t seen him become one yet.
The author has made it simple very obvious. Dragon coming back from watching the arrival of the World Noble with someone injured, the three sake cups at the grave of Ace(nobody expect the three brothers knew about it), Odas refusal to show Sabos face in the three brothers cover, his refusal to say that Sabo is dead.
That's nice and all, but where. is. your. proof?

Dear lord what is it with you people being so damn adamant about this? This you-can-either-agree-with-me-or-be-wrong attitude is starting to get on my nerves. Take Whitemoon's example for sanity's sake, don't disrespect my view on the matter, and move the fudge on.
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Old 2013-09-06, 14:04   Link #144
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
That's nice and all, but where. is. your. proof?
Just so you know, foreshadowing is a thing.

With all the hints Oda has lain out, he's made it about as obvious as he can without actually giving it away.

Personally, any doubt I had about Sabo being alive ended when I saw the scene with the sake cups
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Old 2013-09-06, 14:12   Link #145
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
i don't think it's hinted that he became stronger. I already also gave my reasons as how he could become stronger. The whole point of him staying in paradise creating zombies was to become stronger overall.
Also Sabo didn't have to beat kaido directly. i already talked about how Gold D roger defeated Shiki or why Buggy hold a grudge against buggy. He could have achieved the feat in similar ways.
I said Moria became weaker since his loss, not stronger. That much is obvious. Being a lazy ass and not lifting a finger yourself for 10 years will do that to you.

There isn't anything implying that Moria lost due to special circumstances or bad luck.

It's clearly evident that you're just grasping at straws at this point. Your theory just doesn't hold up well, as I and others have already told you.
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Old 2013-09-06, 14:27   Link #146
Whitemoon648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
I said Moria became weaker since his loss, not stronger. That much is obvious. Being a lazy ass and not lifting a finger yourself for 10 years will do that to you.

There isn't anything implying that Moria lost due to special circumstances or bad luck.

It's clearly evident that you're just grasping at straws at this point. Your theory just doesn't hold up well, as I and others have already told you.
Yes I understood what you said . I meant Much higher chance moria became stronger than weaker . He spent ten years to become stronger and prepare his return. He realized he wasn't strong nor prepared enough for new world thus he spent ten years . If you are going to argue about facts we already know and already established in anime and manga , I suggest you go read the manga or watch the related anime episode .
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Old 2013-09-06, 14:28   Link #147
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I picked an awkward time to join my first forum, what with all these arguments/high sentiments running about... or is it often like this?

But moving back to the current chapter speculations... Do you think those three warships Fujitora requested will arrive on time for the rebellion? And if they do, will they a) squash it? or b) manage to see the smile factory, gain hard evidence against Doflamingo, and fight the Donquixote family?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
I can't believe I actually made this but that's what happens at 5am...
Images
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Nice graph! One thing though: Didn't Sabo and Ace save up their treasure for five years? They would have met fifteen years before the start.
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Old 2013-09-06, 15:03   Link #148
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
Yes I understood what you said . I meant Much higher chance moria became stronger than weaker . He spent ten years to become stronger and prepare his return. He realized he wasn't strong nor prepared enough for new world thus he spent ten years . If you are going to argue about facts we already know and already established in anime and manga , I suggest you go read the manga or watch the related anime episode .
His idea was to become stronger by having an undead army that can't be killed and powered up with shadows. But Moria himself got weaker. This is even proven when Doflamingo said, "Moria, you've become too weak to continue wearing the badge of shichibukai". Otherwise, why else would the "higher ups" want him out? According to you, if Moria was weaker back then, that means he was even weaker than when he faced off against Luffy. Why would the WG recruit someone so weak into the shichibukai faction? One of the requirements in being a shichibukai is you have to be strong. That's partly the reason why they're intimidating and deter piracy. If a shichibukai isn't strong, the group loses credibility and its formidable reputation, which the WG is obviously concerned about.
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Old 2013-09-06, 15:55   Link #149
Dengar
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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
Just so you know, foreshadowing is a thing.

With all the hints Oda has lain out, he's made it about as obvious as he can without actually giving it away.

Personally, any doubt I had about Sabo being alive ended when I saw the scene with the sake cups
I'm not saying you're not allowed to think he's alive. I'm not denying the existence of these things you call "hints". I'm merely stating a fact, and that fact is that Sabo's status as being alive or dead is as of yet uncertain.

The "hints" in and of themselves are nice and all, but the only thing they do is open up the possibility that he might not be dead.
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Old 2013-09-06, 15:58   Link #150
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Originally Posted by BPD Renegade View Post
Nice graph! One thing though: Didn't Sabo and Ace save up their treasure for five years? They would have met fifteen years before the start.
You are quite correct, I forgot about that. Though I assume most of those 5 years were Ace gathering the money by himself. Again, just an assumption as Sabo seemed to be away from his family at best for around a year.
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Old 2013-09-06, 19:08   Link #151
Whitemoon648
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
His idea was to become stronger by having an undead army that can't be killed and powered up with shadows. But Moria himself got weaker. This is even proven when Doflamingo said, "Moria, you've become too weak to continue wearing the badge of shichibukai". Otherwise, why else would the "higher ups" want him out? According to you, if Moria was weaker back then, that means he was even weaker than when he faced off against Luffy. Why would the WG recruit someone so weak into the shichibukai faction? One of the requirements in being a shichibukai is you have to be strong. That's partly the reason why they're intimidating and deter piracy. If a shichibukai isn't strong, the group loses credibility and its formidable reputation, which the WG is obviously concerned about.
Oh dear. Where do I start. Moria alone was never an issue for straw hats . It was his shadow luffy zombie that was the issue . With luffy zombie we can assume moriah was much much stronger than his old self .

Also dofla said you are too weak. Not that You have become too weak. With this alone u lost all credibility u had with me. Twisting what was said to prove your point shows u r more concerned with not being wrong than facts .

Third, we dont even know who that higher up is . For all we know that higher person could be kaido, maybe because moria knows something that kaido wants to keep hidden .
And another theory I have in this regard is that dofla might have not killed him but rather kept him around to rebel against kaido.
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Old 2013-09-06, 19:13   Link #152
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Quote:
Also dofla said you are too weak. Not that You have become too weak. With this alone u lost all credibility u had with me. Twisting what was said to prove your point shows u r more concerned with not being wrong than facts .
Well obviously he wasn't too weak to be a Shichibukai at the start or else he wouldn't have been appointed. And now he is too weak. So he got weaker.

Stop arguing semantics.

Jesus.

Quote:
Third, we dont even know who that higher up is . For all we know that higher person could be kaido, maybe because moria knows something that kaido wants to keep hidden .
Doflamingo was seen talking to someone about it in a WG office. Are you going to tell me now that Kaido is somehow a mole for the World Government or else he actually managed to sneak into the WG hq because he prefers to hold his conferences there? He threatened that person by saying that he does not care for the World Government at all, and he could quit any time. You think he would threaten Kaidou by saying he could quit the Shichibukai any time? Does that make sense to you?

You are a very successful troll.
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Old 2013-09-06, 21:54   Link #153
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
Oh dear. Where do I start. Moria alone was never an issue for straw hats . It was his shadow luffy zombie that was the issue . With luffy zombie we can assume moriah was much much stronger than his old self .

Also dofla said you are too weak. Not that You have become too weak. With this alone u lost all credibility u had with me. Twisting what was said to prove your point shows u r more concerned with not being wrong than facts .

Third, we dont even know who that higher up is . For all we know that higher person could be kaido, maybe because moria knows something that kaido wants to keep hidden .
And another theory I have in this regard is that dofla might have not killed him but rather kept him around to rebel against kaido.
You clearly haven't understood my point about Moria's personal strength. I won't repeat myself further on that matter.

I'll find out the exact line Doflamingo said to Moria about his weakness. In any case, I ask you again, why would the WG recruit a weakling into the shichibukai? That completely goes against their policy and ideals for the group.

As for your other asinine theory, yeah, good luck trying to be taken seriously.
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Old 2013-09-06, 23:39   Link #154
Whitemoon648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
You clearly haven't understood my point about Moria's personal strength. I won't repeat myself further on that matter.

I'll find out the exact line Doflamingo said to Moria about his weakness. In any case, I ask you again, why would the WG recruit a weakling into the shichibukai? That completely goes against their policy and ideals for the group.

As for your other asinine theory, yeah, good luck trying to be taken seriously.
I don't post my theories to be taken seriously per se *. Not a popularity contest . I just put it out on forum to discuss it with people. I enjoy theorizing and discussing different point of views with people. I don't want to brag but i have been generally pretty accurate with my theories.

Also power is not the only thing WG looking for a warlord. Another important factor is name and fear factor from the said pirate. Buggy is a prime example of that.

But buddy, i am cool with agreeing to disagree.

Cheers
P.S. I don't know about you but i enjoyed our back and forth discussion. If you want to further discuss stuff related to sabo, just leave me a visitor pm .
P.S.S. My apologies if i ever came off strong toward you or any one else. I love all your point of views. Very entertaining to discuss anime/manga i love with people who also love them.
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Old 2013-09-07, 00:43   Link #155
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Now there's a person who calls Luffy, "Sempai".

I was actually waiting for a character to call him that and now there is one.
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Old 2013-09-07, 02:05   Link #156
ri0
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
I'm not saying you're not allowed to think he's alive. I'm not denying the existence of these things you call "hints". I'm merely stating a fact, and that fact is that Sabo's status as being alive or dead is as of yet uncertain.
Don't wanna sound small-minded but if I remember correctly his "official" status, according to one of the Databooks, is dead.


Anyways, I also find it highly likely, not to say obvious, that he is alive, with all those hints Oda is throwing around. But I can understand the people who want adamant proof.


On another topic, regarding Whitemoon: I also like to post theories, but if you, as you said, want to discuss them, they should have a valid basis.
In a previous post you hinted, that you were also a supporter of the Tobi=Obito theory. I was against this the whole time, because I didn't believe Kishi would do something like that, although Naruto was already on a downward path in my eyes. You could say, I didn't see the hints. But one could also say that this twist of events was really bad story-telling - I think I don't have to explain why.
That is the problem I have with some theories. They just don't match into the Naruto/One Piece-verse because they contradict the very world they take place in.
So if you want to discuss a theory and people come up with major hints which refute it, one could either accept that and come up with something different or defy the logic and clutch at straws.
I don't think that this is a personal issue (hell, we're on a frickin' internet forum) so everyone just tries to reasonably tell you, why they think that your Sabo=Kaido theory lacks One Piece-evidence.

EDIT:
Below I've quickly drawn a time-line to show you, why most people doubt this theory.
I hope I didn't forget any events that could make the graph more accurate, but that's what I remember.

I've drawn it in a way, that it favors your theory, meaning Luffy is brought to Dadan when he recently turned 7. I estimated the time from Luffy's departure till his meeting with Moria to be about half a year.



Last edited by ri0; 2013-09-07 at 17:26.
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Old 2013-09-08, 10:48   Link #157
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So you're saying that a kid 10 years old with less than 12 months of training (remember Luffy had 2 and a half himself) beat a Shichibukai level opponent? haha boy are the Shichibukai becoming the whipping boys of One Piece..
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Old 2013-09-08, 11:21   Link #158
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If there were any guesses, not actual dates, I painted the graph favoring your theory.

Shanks lost his arm when Luffy was 7. The month I took, in favor of your theory, was May, because this is the earliest time Luffy could have been seven.
Shortly after that (could also be a longer gap, but again in favor of your theory) he was taken to Dadan and started following Ace.
The following months are stated in the manga. It took Luffy at least 6 months to trail Ace and subsequently find Sabo.
The whole "three brothers hanging out together"-time, Sabo getting kidnapped and the Gray Terminal Incident along Sabo's death only got accounted with 4 months in the graph, which I think is rather short.

The next thing is a guess again. Luffy headed out on his birthday in May and I gave him six months to reach Moria. Could be longer or shorter - it was just a guess.


I really like your theory. Especially your idea of Kaido/Sabo not wanting to attack Whitebeard, rather than helping him, in order to save Ace, which Shanks and the Marines misunderstood, shows that you know about story-telling.
But I have to say, that the numbers simply don't match.
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Old 2013-09-08, 11:25   Link #159
Whitemoon648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
I can't believe I actually made this but that's what happens at 5am...
Images
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
-Your blue line is misleading. We don't know how long Kaido has been active for.
-Purple line also misleading. Rivalry? We know kaido and Moria fought and Moria lost. Where do you get the whole they were rival for X period of time thing?
-Red line once more misleading. Sabo dies 10 years ago from pre timeskip. All we know.
-Green and light blue misleading and bordering false info. All we know Moria meets hogback 10 years prior to pre-timeskip and creates zombies for 10 year after his defeat.
-Luffy meets shanks 10 years prior to time-skip at the age of 7. yes that's correct. well done. But ...
Sabo and ace meet? I might have misinterpreted your graph but Sabo and ace meet at the age 5 or earlier. Afterall they spent 5 years gathering their treasure. not 10 years ago. But rather 15 years from pre-timeskip.
- Purple line very misleading. It is heavily hinted right after moria lost his crew he started building his shadow army. That would be 10 years ago. He didn't lose his army 10 to 20 years ago ( what your graph shows).

So let me summarize,

10 years pre-timeskip these things happend:
What we know happened ( in no specific order)
-Moria started building his shadow army after losing his nakama.
- Luffy/shanks met.
-Ace/Luffy/Sabo met
-Sabo died

What is strongly hinted ( 10 years ago):
-Moria and kaido fought and Then met hogback
-sabo rescued by Revolutionaries

Indeed, These events can be rearranged in the favor of my theory and your theory. That much i agree and have no objection. But giving misleading information ( at least what i think/believe they are) that i disagree to.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ri0 View Post
Don't wanna sound small-minded but if I remember correctly his "official" status, according to one of the Databooks, is dead.





Where do you get your months? A lot of these are birthday months and you are using them as dates events* occurred. May i ask for a link for the months ? or at least your source?
I feel these are your guesstimates than real/oda approved dates. If they are not just your guesstimates then my apologies ( but please provide links/source).

Also a correction. Sabo died 10 years prior to pre-timeskip not 9.

Other than question about the months and what i just mentioned above, i don't have any other issues with your graph.

Cheers.
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Old 2013-09-08, 11:39   Link #160
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Whitemoon648, what would you say the likelihood of Sabo being Kaido is?
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