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Old 2013-09-10, 13:59   Link #41
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Additionally, it also implies that every ninja in the world, every single one of them, is a descendant of the Sage of the Six Paths.
Check this out

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Yeeees, but prior to this everything had chakra. Now, this new knowledge shows that humans do not have chakra, a concept that aside from being ridiculous (why does every living being in the world have chakra except humans?) also mean that even today there are people without chakra, and that becoming a ninja is something you can only do if you're born as one.
Where do you get this? In this chapter i read "she was the first human to use chakra", it doesn't say that she or her child was the first that had chakra, but used. Remember the story of Haku back in the beginning of the manga, regular people hated those who were able to use chakra, Haku's father immedately tried to kill his family when he noticed that Haku can use it. Haku never learned to use it, he just naturally had this ablity from his bloodline. But nobody said that people can't learn to use it. Also if hundreds of years have passed since the event then the Sage of 6 paths children could be in millions, since there is an exponential explosion in human reproduction, assuming that every time one parent has this chakra using ability all the chilren will have it.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Additionally, it also implies that every ninja in the world, every single one of them, is a descendant of the Sage of the Six Paths.
It might be that they are descendants since the exponential growth of their number as generations pass is possible, but it can be that with proper learning normal humans can also learn how to use it. At least it's most likely that every "advanced bloodline" comes from the Sage of 6 paths, not only Uchiha and Senju, but everybody is related ( Hyuuga, Uzumaki, even Haku is a very distant relative. Just making simple math: let's say there's a new generation every 20 years, and 600 years have passed, then we had 30 generations, and let's say on average they made 2 children with normal people (1 parent with chakra use ability and the other normal), then it's 2^30 = 1 billion descendants

Also we shouldn't say that the Sage had just normal chakra like a normal person or even normal ninja, because as know he was able to beat and seal the 10 tails. That's not a normal human level ability. He surely had special chakra, that's from the "god tree", even Uchiha who have probably much weaker chakra can make a chakra monster called Susano, average ninja can't do that with their normal chakra, but that doesn't mean that they do not have chakra. Also it was never stated that some part of the people if they join the ninja academy will never be able to learn how to use chakra, so i'm assuming everybody can learn it to an extent. But most people just stay at genin level, probably those who have neither special talent nor inherited some level of chakra use ability from the Sage.

So we can make sense of this chapter, it's actually a cool chapter in my opinion. Mostly because it kills people, no matter what Naruto does people just die, and Naruto's despair is back, we see it on his face. Let's see if Kishi has the balls to kill Sakura in the next chapter

However there's one thing that was not explained: Hashirama flashbacks to the young Madara telling him about his different dream, so at that point Madara already read the stone tablet's whole text, which means he should have had the rinnegan, but this was before he fought Hashirama and got his cells, and later he even states that he got his rinnegan only at an old age. So either you can read the tablet with only an EMS or something is wrong here

Last edited by Ero-Senn1n; 2013-09-10 at 15:05.
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Old 2013-09-10, 14:03   Link #42
GDB
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Originally Posted by NeoNero View Post
Hey,
sorry if my english is an bit odd.

If humans originally didn't have chackra and only grained it because ONE woman ate an fruit. An fruit which gave her, and her descendant, the ability to use chackra .How long would it take for this ability to spread through the whole mankind?
( I mean if the fruit changed her DNA in order to use chackra).


Also would that mean that nature chackra also originates from the Juubi?
Depends on how many women the Sage of Six Paths impregnated, as well as how many his sons etc. impregnated.
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Old 2013-09-10, 14:23   Link #43
Ushio the Omega
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What's the problem?

The Rikudō Sennin was not only the son of the princess who ate the fruit he also became the Jinchūriki of the Juubi.

So what's to stop him changing people to be able to mold chakra at will through his power alone?

I mean if Kabuto can give himself Kimimaro's shikotsumyaku kekkei genkai through the Naruto worlds science I'm sure there version of Jesus can change people's physical makeup easily enough.
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Old 2013-09-10, 14:24   Link #44
NeoNero
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Depends on how many women the Sage of Six Paths impregnated, as well as how many his sons etc. impregnated.
Well if I remember correctly 2 The Oldest received the eyes of the sage and the youngest the physical chakra of the Sage and are the Founders of the Uchiha Clan (oldest) Uzumaki and Senju Clan( youngest).

i read alot fanfiction recently and maybe mixes some thing.

This could mean that that the Oldest is the Origin of all Doujutsu Sharingan Biyakugan, Raigas sidekick with the red eyes. The youngest the origin of all those elemental kekai genkai like Mokuton Yoton ........ Ya get it.

But why are there a lot without an kekei genkai ?
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Old 2013-09-10, 14:40   Link #45
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daamm kishi fooled us well on that one ... damm it on a note it say the princess ate the fruit and her son was born with chaka , maybe the fruits just give the rinnegan , which allow you to have some advance control over chakra , madara could be lying aswell and try to mix the story to his liking just so hashirama agree with his view of the world ,
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Old 2013-09-10, 15:18   Link #46
NeoNero
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Just making simple math: let's say there's a new generation every 20 years, and 600 years have passed, then we had 30 generations, and let's say on average they made 2 children with normal people (1 parent with chakra use ability and the other normal), then it's 2^30 = 1 billion descendants
In one of the Flashbacks was stated that more than 2 Children was Common during the clan wars, but most didn't reach adulthood. They died on the Battlefield.
Its also not stated that they had enough food to sustain a large population.
also the medicine was probably not advanced or didn't have the time recourses to teach medic nins or just medics becouse the lived as nomads to prevent epidemics.


http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/hist...ion-growth.htm


Quote:


Let's see if Kishi has the balls to kill Sakura in the next chapter
That i would call a good chapter^^



PS.

That reminds me of Dragonball Z

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Dra..._Tree_of_Might

Also at the beginning of the chap the shinju? was a holy tree and is flower with an eyeball at the end^^ and UGLY at that.


Shinju if the translation i read hat the right name

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinju_(BDSM)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinjū

nice or?


PPS.

Isn't the Flower on the last page a little bit too large?
Which layer is this little flower reaching?

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/l...tmosphere.html

is it breaking throu the Ozon layer?

And if the plant ist killing everyone that has somme of its Chackra, wich should be the whole humankind, what use has the infinite tsukiyomi???

Also did they feed one of the fruits to Animals or how did they receive chackra???
Since Chackra originaly only belonged to the shinju
page 6 madara speaking with hashirama


And how did summoning Animals gain chackra???

i fear Kishi will create with this chapter alot plot holes^^

Last edited by NeoNero; 2013-09-10 at 15:47.
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Old 2013-09-10, 15:53   Link #47
DarkAngelZ28
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Few interesting things from this capter

1. What we are seeing now, likely occurred in the past. Notice how there was already a warning "not to eat the fruit". That means some sort of history remained from past civilizations, where the events of eating the fruit and their likely results were detailed. But what made it to the current civilization through the generations was just a warning not to eat it.

2. Nowhere is it stated that all current people that can use chakra were blood related to the Sage of the Six Paths. Take for example how Kin & Gin: acquired the 9th's tail chakra just by being inside it and not dying. Other's could have attained it the same way. It is however probable, that the two main family lines (Senjuus and Uchiha) are related to him somehow, probably descendants?

3. Nature's energy and chakra are two different things. Chakra as we know it comes from the Shinju. The Juubi "came to be" from the Shinju to get it back.Could make sense why chakra doesnt hurt him, both come from the same place.

4. If one Shinju exists, which was a host for a god... There could also be other gods in Naruto's world

5. How the hell does a tree that big, disappear without anyone remembering it

6. Everyone one has their own opinion, even Naruto's characters. None of them in particular knows everything. They could be acting like humans, teaching on / saying what they were taught was the way the world worked.
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Old 2013-09-10, 16:33   Link #48
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-So, obvious Diabolus Ex Machina aside, anyone got an idea what made Naruto so mad when he looked at Sasuke near the end? At first I thought it was because he wasn't being targeted by the Flower of Doom but then I noticed that Juugo and many other shinobi had the chakra cloak with them still. Then I thought it was because Sasuke had that typical "Meh" expression, but I remembered he is like that anyway on a good day. So what gives here? What's the meaning behind that exchanged glance?
I thought Naruto was pissed at how many people just died, since that's the panel after his.
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Old 2013-09-10, 17:14   Link #49
SeanQ
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once again kishi reminds us that woman are the source of all evil.
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Old 2013-09-10, 17:35   Link #50
forcerounds
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One more thing I'd like to mention. I don't think the Shinju literally hosted a god. The ancient civilization revered it as a host of a god, but there is not proof that the Shinju is anything more than a "natural disaster" with a mind of its own, just like the bijuu.
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Old 2013-09-10, 18:03   Link #51
james0246
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So what's to stop him changing people to be able to mold chakra at will through his power alone?
Exactly. The Rinnegan had the power to literally reshape reality and even mess around with people's souls, so there is no reason he couldn't have simply given everyone the ability to use their chakra or some other godly happenstance that created the modern shinobi.
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Old 2013-09-10, 18:35   Link #52
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post

So we can make sense of this chapter, it's actually a cool chapter in my opinion. Mostly because it kills people, no matter what Naruto does people just die, and Naruto's despair is back, we see it on his face. Let's see if Kishi has the balls to kill Sakura in the next chapter
Oh god! do not tease me so! Sakuras death would please me greatly. I hate everything about her. Including the fact that her dumb face looks like my sisters dumb face, and I hate my sister

But to be honest, Now that sasuke has come to his senses (seemingly), the moment for sakura's death has passed. I always assumed that sasuke would kill sakura, and that would be the final straw that forced naruto to stop trying to save sasuke and lead to the showdown.

The pacing of this fight has been slowly building up, but the sudden appearance of the tree seems a bit rushed. Orochimaru and the kages havent even arrived yet.

If the manage to kill the tree, can obito cast it again? Or is it a one-time-jutsu? If they kill the tree, will he flip out and wanna kill them for the hell of it? Or will he simply say "oh well, plan over" and just call it a day, retire to some lonely forest to cry about rin for eternity?
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Old 2013-09-10, 19:24   Link #53
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The tree is the true form of the ten tails, so if they "kill it", it's done.
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Old 2013-09-10, 19:43   Link #54
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A women ate a fruit off a special tree that she not suppose to eat and gain a certain knowledge as well as pissing off the God. I wonder where did I hear this before?
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Old 2013-09-10, 19:52   Link #55
milan kyuubi
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So in the end it was all the women fault all this happened. Kishi's sexism knows no bounds

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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Let's see if Kishi has the balls to kill Sakura in the next chapter
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Originally Posted by NeoNero View Post
That i would call a good chapter^^
Sukara is MC and protected by PA the same way Naruto and Sasuke are. Sorry to disappoint
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Old 2013-09-10, 20:27   Link #56
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To be honest, I NEED the whole "origin" of chakra given here to be just an allegory or a mythical legend. Partly because of the nature of chakra given earlier in the manga which contradicts this, but mainly because:

I have a multi-Book fanfic series going. In this series' verse, 1) ki (the "energy" from Dragon Ball, Negima (other than magic, that is; that's a whole separate power/energy), and some other series) and chakra are the exact same power/energy with different names, and 2) people from non-Naruto-verse universes become capable, via proper study and training, of accessing their ki/chakra and using Naruto-verse chakra manipulation and jutsu. If the Magical Fruit is the source of all chakra in people, then ONLY PEOPLE OF THE NARUTO-VERSE WOULD BE PHYSICALLY ABLE TO USE CHAKRA AND JUTSU. That would wholly invalidate one of the core building blocks of my fic series!

So for common sense's sake, for the sake of continuity with the nature of chakra given early in the manga, and for the sake of my fic series, this whole "Chakra came from the Magical Fruit" theory MUST be false, or all hell will break loose!
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Old 2013-09-10, 20:37   Link #57
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Er...Did Kishi really have to give the manga even more biblical undertones? I mean I know Naruto is supposed to be Jesus and the sons of Ridoku Sennin being akin to Cain and Abel but this is getting ridiculous.
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Old 2013-09-10, 21:18   Link #58
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Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
I thought Naruto was pissed at how many people just died, since that's the panel after his.
-But then, why when the two of them met they both had that "!" going for them?

-A random theory circling around, with the introduction of the Chakra Chakra no Mi, is that Sasuke will somehow get to eat it after the Infinite Tsukuyomi is averted. I figure it is because people want that Naruto vs. Sasuke fight, but they realized that had they fought right now, Naruto would have ROFL-stomped Sasuke. So they're thinking of ways to make a level playing field. I dunno how I'd feel about that, but it is something to think about for the future.
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Old 2013-09-10, 21:46   Link #59
NeoNero
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To be honest, I NEED the whole "origin" of chakra given here to be just an allegory or a mythical legend. Partly because of the nature of chakra given earlier in the manga which contradicts this, but mainly because:
Maybe everyone at first was able to use chackra. But the use of chackra during wars lead to their near extinction and they decided to seal the ability to use chackra away in the holy tree. Because they realized that these godly powers no matter how noble and selfless some would use these Powers other would abuse them to grain adventage over other people. Sadly the tree bore an fruit every 1000 Years? and who ever would eat the fruit would unleash the curse of chackra on mankind. So they left their history and Warning of which got lost or changed with every new generation.

And the Juubi was a safety mechanism^^
like minato's stored chackra in the shiki fuin^^
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Old 2013-09-10, 21:47   Link #60
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Well, this magical fruit development seems to suggest that there will indeed be no such thing as a shinobi as we know it when this is all over, as the tree's chakra will probably be returned. Perhaps this why the powers and abilities have been so over the top?

I thought the backstory of the tree was interesting, however the plot is moving at a glacial pace as usual, and its pretty annoying. I remember reading certain comics when I was younger, where the pages would be full of dialog; several bubbles of text everywhere as opposed to these double page spreads of simple actions and half pages dedicated to surprised expressions or something petty like avoiding some projectile; if we're lucky we'll get a few exclamation marks and a sentence in these huge panels : /
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