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Old 2013-09-08, 00:08   Link #321
Solace
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Originally Posted by Diveman View Post
Relating to madoka...I guess spoilers so:

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but here that crow and the stupid cat don't really explain anything. They always go "uhm ok yeah, we can't tell you"
Right, exactly. And right about now we'd already be clued in to the motives, mostly. But we're not, and that's what's so irritating, because frankly if there isn't much to separate the good from the bad, why bother with it all? Yeah, human suffering...but while that's all nice and noble, all they've done, and all they're charged with doing, is basically going around mercy killing people.

There are tons of hints of a bigger picture, but never any gestures to pull back that curtain.

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Yes, oh damn yes. She really had them hidden since you couldn't really tell by looking at her outfit.
I'm still debating on how much clothing is left, and how much is censored for television.

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They aren't by themselves though, there's at least 1 girl/boy (?) with a Tarot card's power in the world. I recall they mentioned something about different factions somewhere else (which is where the lovers user dissapeared from).

I guess it wouldn't hurt to join forces with those other users, specially now that shit is going all over their faces.
That's true, but those factions aren't helping out here, and the impression I got was that while the organization is wide, it's not very deep. So resources are stretched, and that makes them vulnerable, as we've seen. The mood of the characters in general just gives me the impression that their overall battle with the Daemonia is not going well at all, and hasn't been going well for a long time. It's pretty obvious that the villains have had the upper hand for not just the entire show, but even preceding Akari joining.
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Old 2013-09-08, 00:24   Link #322
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I agree with the criticism of Ginka's kamikaze death, and of the episode that featured it. I had mixed feelings about it at the time, and it looks worse in retrospect since nobody else has followed Ginka's lead. So, to be blunt, it does make it look like she foolishly threw her life away when she didn't really have to. But to be fair to Ginka, it is clear that the plot is trying to isolate Akari, so Ginka's actions are probably partly an one-off occurrence of what's called PIS (Plot-Induced Stupidity). While I'm critical of this, I'm willing to roll with it given how excellent the last two episodes are.

So, with that in mind, I disagree with Klash and Solace over the two most recent episodes.


Sometimes villains simply victimize protagonists in fiction. It happens, a lot. Not every victimized hero has to be a totally tragic figure who's undoing is brought about, at least in part, by some chief character flaw or key mistake.

Also, I can think of a couple good plausible reasons for why Cerebrum never directly targeted an elemental tarot card user before:

1. There's strength in numbers, and in direct organizational oversight. As long as Luna was at that facility with her fellow elemental tarot users she was safe. They all were, as the way they operated as a close-knit team would make it very hard, if not impossible, for Cerebrum to pull off what he did when Luna was almost all alone at her villa, left ripe for the picking.

2. Cerebrum needed to setup a situation where he could take Luna by surprise. For that, perhaps he had to spend some time learning about her, and learning about who it is that Luna would put complete trust and faith in. Cerebrum then acted as that person (as Akari), using the image and perceived presence of that person to lull Luna into a false sense of security, taking her by surprise at the most opportune time.

Personally, I found this very impressive - even delicious - villainy. I thought it was great, and I still do. I think some have been far too critical of this.


Now, as for this latest episode, it's simply a logical extension of what came before. Yes, the organization sucks, but that's been obvious for quite some time now. As I suggested before, perhaps there's some sort of social commentary there. Perhaps this organization is meant to reflect US Intelligence Agencies that have a tendency to underestimate their enemies.

The protagonist organization is afflicted with what I would call a dumb rationality/cynicism. What I mean is that by sheer virtue of them putting an emphasis on rationality, and not growing overly optimistic, and not letting themselves care about the emotional morale of their operatives, they think they're being shrewd, smart, and efficient. But it's a shallow rationality rooted more in pride than in truly careful, logical and meticulous thinking. And in many ways, I really do see how the organization being this way can offer some compelling social commentary about certain real life organizations that may well share the same flaws.

So Akari is like the good person, the good agent working/fighting for law and order, saddled with an organization that doesn't support her and her colleagues/friends as much as it should. I'm sure Akari's story is one that many a "ground level" Intelligence Agent or Soldier or Police Officer could relate to.

The enemy is cunning, corrupting, seemingly omnipresent, and perhaps most importantly, terrorizing. Are the antagonists of this work meant to reflect real life terrorist organizations and the problems that their asymmetrical style of warfare can cause?


Personally, I think this show still has a lot of potential, and that some here may well be underestimating the writing quality of this show. I also don't see a problem with how Seira was handled in this latest episode. I don't see any issue with an Elemental Tarot user-turned-Daemonia being able to do some wild things, since such a being is rather rare if not unprecedented. Daemonia!Luna managing to corrupt Seira's card to the point that she can't fight anymore is not something that I think is worthy of criticism.

And if you want somebody to root for, look no further than Akari. You don't have to feel like the organization as a whole is worthy of support, you just have to feel that she is. And personally, I definitely think she is worthy of support. She has consistently tried to do what she thinks is right in this show.

On the whole, I think this show is going splendidly right now, and I definitely look forward to more.
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Old 2013-09-11, 10:27   Link #323
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Old 2013-09-11, 11:27   Link #324
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Ok... I take it back... the bobble-head doll look isn't so bad after all.

It's certainly better than its complete inversion, lol.
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Old 2013-09-11, 16:34   Link #325
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Hmm. while I agree there are some interesting points especially with the latest developments, I'm still a bit skeptical, but not for the reasons outlined in the earlier posts.
My main issue is that the whole group didn't bond enough, hence this string of death and suffering has a less impact than what it should have. I think a couple of earlier episodes could have been cut in half at least for this reason. Also I'm doubtful the story is going to have any sort of acceptable conclusion, considering they have a lot to answer and just two episodes.
Then again, I believe the project suffered from development hell (the original idea - when it was still a doujin, was from 2009 IIRC), so some of the issues of the plot may have been generated from this.
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Old 2013-09-14, 10:00   Link #326
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Spoiler for Episode 11:
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Old 2013-09-14, 10:59   Link #327
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Spoiler for Episode 11:
Spoiler for The path to Cerebrum:
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Old 2013-09-14, 13:42   Link #328
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Well, the reveal that they spent way too much time on was rather obvious with what they revealed. The subtle reveal, which I'm sure they'll play up more later, wasn't obvious, but they haven't officially revealed it yet I guess.

That said... I feel like nothing really happened this episode. A few things got started, but those shouldn't have taken more than 8-10 minutes, let alone 23.
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Old 2013-09-14, 14:19   Link #329
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Old 2013-09-14, 14:29   Link #330
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Old 2013-09-14, 14:39   Link #331
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Oh, no, I was talking about those two in particular. This other thing you mention has a little surprising, because I thought that the guy he was talking to was actually the parent.
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Old 2013-09-14, 16:29   Link #332
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Well, the reveal that they spent way too much time on was rather obvious with what they revealed. The subtle reveal, which I'm sure they'll play up more later, wasn't obvious, but they haven't officially revealed it yet I guess.

That said... I feel like nothing really happened this episode. A few things got started, but those shouldn't have taken more than 8-10 minutes, let alone 23.
It's called setting a mood, and building suspense. Both of which I felt Episode 11 did superbly.

Besides, after last week's break-neck paced episode, I think it was a good approach to slow things down a bit to make some key reveals and give the audience a breather before the finale. While the reveals made in this episode aren't massively surprising (given Akari's ability to hear Daemonia), they are nonetheless important reveals that shouldn't be rushed.

Plus, I felt this episode did a great job of shifting back-and-forth between Seira's scenes and Akari's scenes. Without having Seira actually say much, this episode still made it clear how seriously she was considering Cerebrum's words, and how she is wavering considerably over how to handle Luna. That demonstrates good directing for this episode, imo.

That being said, I do have one nit to pick - Seira's decision to just stay there struck me as a bit odd, if not downright suicidal. Seira doesn't have her powers any more, so Daemonia!Luna is a very serious threat to her. I don't get why Seira wouldn't just leave after making her decision to not kill Luna. Or even if she was still uncertain of that decision, just take the knife and leave. And try to reunite with Akari.

It's funny - Just as the emotional poignancy of Gen'ei has improved dramatically, its plot tightness has lowered a bit. An improvement in one area has coincided with a decline in another area. I get that the narrative wants to isolate Akari as much as possible, but it probably could have done a better job of it.

Still, on the whole, I enjoyed Episode 11 and I remain cautiously optimistic going forward. This show has become much more interesting over the last few episodes, imo.
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Old 2013-09-14, 18:07   Link #333
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It's called setting a mood, and building suspense. Both of which I felt Episode 11 did superbly.
That'd be fine earlier on, but this close to the end it felt like they were stalling so they could end the episode where they did.

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That being said, I do have one nit to pick - Seira's decision to just stay there struck me as a bit odd, if not downright suicidal. Seira doesn't have her powers any more, so Daemonia!Luna is a very serious threat to her. I don't get why Seira wouldn't just leave after making her decision to not kill Luna. Or even if she was still uncertain of that decision, just take the knife and leave. And try to reunite with Akari.
I figured she wants to try to reason with Luna. Or wanted to, at least. Basically, the "thing she values most" is her friends now rather than her powers, so she wants to try to save Luna. And given the flash when the triplets were searching for Seira that appeared to be Ginka in combat with her other half, I anticipate that Seira will succeed in saving Luna and all 4 will be reunited by the end, each having overcome their own personal trials.
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Old 2013-09-14, 19:02   Link #334
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Disappointing. Was hoping they wouldn't go for that cliché, but they sure did.
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Old 2013-09-14, 19:43   Link #335
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Disappointing. Was hoping they wouldn't go for that cliché, but they sure did.
I know Star Wars made this famous, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to call it a cliche. I mean, I don't think I've seen it used a whole lot.

Anyway, Cerebrum's approach was certainly quite different than what we saw in Star Wars.
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Old 2013-09-21, 10:00   Link #336
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Spoiler for Episode 12:
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Old 2013-09-21, 10:50   Link #337
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Disappointing. Was hoping they wouldn't go for that cliché, but they sure did.
It's even worse when you release Cerebrum is in fact Akari's Father through the rape of her mother and wants to impregnate Akari in order to bring some kind of anti-christ into a world.
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Old 2013-09-21, 12:33   Link #338
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Seems I was right about Ginka too. This show suddenly went from interesting to overly cliche.
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Old 2013-09-21, 13:37   Link #339
Dark Faith
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After last week I didn't have too many expectations for this episode... but still I was able to feel disappointed.

Oh well, it IS a Magical Girl show afterall..
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Old 2013-09-21, 14:46   Link #340
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Episode 12

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