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Old 2013-09-10, 21:56   Link #61
Ulquiorra
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Originally Posted by Midnight Commander View Post
Well, this magical fruit development seems to suggest that there will indeed be no such thing as a shinobi as we know it when this is all over, as the tree's chakra will probably be returned. Perhaps this why the powers and abilities have been so over the top?

I thought the backstory of the tree was interesting, however the plot is moving at a glacial pace as usual, and its pretty annoying. I remember reading certain comics when I was younger, where the pages would be full of dialog; several bubbles of text everywhere as opposed to these double page spreads of simple actions and half pages dedicated to surprised expressions or something petty like avoiding some projectile; if we're lucky we'll get a few exclamation marks and a sentence in these huge panels : /
That might be the way to end the ninja system. Depower everyone and return the world to the way it was before. Of course there was war then, but not with the nuclear bombs chakra can produce. A world where one guy like the Third Raikage can't fight 10,000 people on his own thanks to his ninjutsu and chakra.

Return all chakra to the tree and then destroy it to free the world of this curse.

Naruto vs. Sasuke. No chakra. No ninjutsu. No chakra powered taijutsu. No genjutsu. No senjutsu. No biju. Just fists.
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Old 2013-09-10, 22:16   Link #62
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Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
That might be the way to end the ninja system. Depower everyone and return the world to the way it was before.
-The only problem I see with that is, while chakra has been used virtually exclusively for "modern" warfare, it has also produced medical ninjutsu which was able to save many lives. It's thanks to it that Rock Lee can still move and live a normal life. Without it, how are people going to get the medical attention they need after this war is over? There's also repercussions for it as well. Like say for example Shino chakra-eating bugs. Their relationship is one of symbiosis (they feed on his chakra and he gets to use them in battle). What happens when he no longer has it? Do the bugs devour him from within? Do they leave him alone and he ends up with holes from where the bugs once resided?
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Old 2013-09-10, 23:18   Link #63
milan kyuubi
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I am confused. If the juubi was originally a tree, and now has transformed once again in that form. Why does Obito still looks like juubi's jinchuriki?

Also even if all the chakra is gone after this. There are still bijuus. Kurama and eight tails. So I really don't see that the manga will end with no chakra. What I think will happen is the juubi will overpower Obito and go on rampage.

Also people don't forget that Naruto has all of the bijuus chakra in him self, plus natural energy. So he also has a tree in him self
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Old 2013-09-11, 01:18   Link #64
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Finally a little bit of history…
beating myself up tho for not moving forward with my speculation that I felt origin of the juubi was some form of plant…

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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
However there's one thing that was not explained: Hashirama flashbacks to the young Madara telling him about his different dream, so at that point Madara already read the stone tablet's whole text, which means he should have had the rinnegan, but this was before he fought Hashirama and got his cells, and later he even states that he got his rinnegan only at an old age. So either you can read the tablet with only an EMS or something is wrong here
the last time i tried to defend something of this caliber i was terribly wrong (hokage mountain in obito flashback). so my first response is that this is an error
but what i really think is that kishi has decided that you only need the EMS to read the entirety of the tablets. which may mean that sasuke has read it as well...

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Originally Posted by Tchadnis View Post
daamm kishi fooled us well on that one ... damm it on a note it say the princess ate the fruit and her son was born with chaka , maybe the fruits just give the rinnegan , which allow you to have some advance control over chakra , madara could be lying aswell and try to mix the story to his liking just so hashirama agree with his view of the world ,
i think madara is telling the truth here. there really is no need to lie at this point. he has a plan, tho we have yet to see it, and he is fairly confident he'll pull it off…

regarding sasuke and naruto's glare: i think a poster mentioned this already so not to take away his/her thunder…
but look at the way sandaime is holding naruto and you'll see his face is to the battlefield. he is glaring at all the people who are now incapacitated...
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Old 2013-09-11, 01:26   Link #65
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Originally Posted by Poetic Justice View Post
Er...Did Kishi really have to give the manga even more biblical undertones? I mean I know Naruto is supposed to be Jesus and the sons of Ridoku Sennin being akin to Cain and Abel but this is getting ridiculous.
i just hope naruto isn't carried away on a cross at the end like neo was...

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Originally Posted by NeoNero View Post
Maybe everyone at first was able to use chackra. But the use of chackra during wars lead to their near extinction and they decided to seal the ability to use chackra away in the holy tree.
we just got an origin of the origin story. i could do without an origin of the origin of the origin story

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Originally Posted by Midnight Commander View Post
Well, this magical fruit development seems to suggest that there will indeed be no such thing as a shinobi as we know it when this is all over, as the tree's chakra will probably be returned. Perhaps this why the powers and abilities have been so over the top?
this has my vote for most likely to happen. since, as many people have mentioned over the past couple months, a naruto sasuke battle would be impossible to make at this point and outshine what is being done in this war. so the solution to that problem would be to take away everyone's powers and have them fight without them. it would be something we haven't seen at least

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Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
i think madara is telling the truth here. there really is no need to lie at this point. he has a plan, tho we have yet to see it, and he is fairly confident he'll pull it off…
yea i think he's likely telling the truth. it's basically kishi speaking through madara to explain the origin of the sage to the readers
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Old 2013-09-11, 01:36   Link #66
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Originally Posted by Luminion Lancer View Post
-But then, why when the two of them met they both had that "!" going for them?
Well Naruto and them did appear out of thin air, which could be surprising. Also Naruto was pretty badass moments before but now got tree sapped.

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So they're thinking of ways to make a level playing field. I dunno how I'd feel about that, but it is something to think about for the future.
Probably as simple as getting the Kyuubi out of Naruto, that's his big backup of power. Though he naturally does have quite a lot.
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Old 2013-09-11, 01:49   Link #67
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i guess next will learn the senju clan was originally shinju clan...i mean the pride of the clan uses wood style and summons a dragon that absorbs chakra...
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Old 2013-09-11, 01:56   Link #68
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Well we were already told that the Uchiha and Senju branched off from the Sage of Six Paths' students, and now we know his origins.
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Old 2013-09-11, 01:58   Link #69
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Well we were already told that the Uchiha and Senju branched off from the Sage of Six Paths' students, and now we know his origins.
this chapter puts a whole new meaning to the word

also they are descendants of his actual sons just to clarify
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Old 2013-09-11, 02:09   Link #70
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To be honest, I NEED the whole "origin" of chakra given here to be just an allegory or a mythical legend. Partly because of the nature of chakra given earlier in the manga which contradicts this, but mainly because:

I have a multi-Book fanfic series going. In this series' verse, 1) ki (the "energy" from Dragon Ball, Negima (other than magic, that is; that's a whole separate power/energy), and some other series) and chakra are the exact same power/energy with different names, and 2) people from non-Naruto-verse universes become capable, via proper study and training, of accessing their ki/chakra and using Naruto-verse chakra manipulation and jutsu. If the Magical Fruit is the source of all chakra in people, then ONLY PEOPLE OF THE NARUTO-VERSE WOULD BE PHYSICALLY ABLE TO USE CHAKRA AND JUTSU. That would wholly invalidate one of the core building blocks of my fic series!

So for common sense's sake, for the sake of continuity with the nature of chakra given early in the manga, and for the sake of my fic series, this whole "Chakra came from the Magical Fruit" theory MUST be false, or all hell will break loose!


The Ki/chi from other anime/manga series are more like the spiritual energy side of chakra that requires insane amounts of training to use. Seriously look at how ki is used in other series, it's mostly by teenagers after training that is far more intense compared to what Ninja's go through in order to be able to use chakra.

So in a way the sage of six paths altered everyone to have chakra circulatory system's so that rather than the insane training other series use for characters to be able to use ki it allows them to be far more powerful at a much younger age with far less work.
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Old 2013-09-11, 02:47   Link #71
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
However there's one thing that was not explained: Hashirama flashbacks to the young Madara telling him about his different dream, so at that point Madara already read the stone tablet's whole text, which means he should have had the rinnegan, but this was before he fought Hashirama and got his cells, and later he even states that he got his rinnegan only at an old age. So either you can read the tablet with only an EMS or something is wrong here
There is still the other possibility: Maybe Madara didn't really read the complete tablet and this whole story is already readable for those with EMS. (But then Sasuke should also now this already)
Maybe Rinnegan simply allows to read the last paragraph which is: „Well, isn't this a nice fairy tale to tell your children?“


What I wondered though: How did the 8-tails know about the transformations of the Juubi? The tailed beasts were created after the Juubi was defeated, so they should have no knowledge, except of the things they were told by the sage. But then it shouldn't talk so confidently.
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Old 2013-09-11, 04:00   Link #72
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Where do you get this? In this chapter i read "she was the first human to use chakra", it doesn't say that she or her child was the first that had chakra, but used.
The chapter is quite clear that the woman stole chakra from the world tree, and that the ten-tail (and the current root absorption) was the tree's attempt to get it back. If humans always had chakra, the woman would not have stolen chakra. Nor would the tree be trying to "get it back."

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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Remember the story of Haku back in the beginning of the manga, regular people hated those who were able to use chakra, Haku's father immedately tried to kill his family when he noticed that Haku can use it. Haku never learned to use it, he just naturally had this ablity from his bloodline.
Except according to this chapter, the very ability to use chakra itself is a bloodline. If you're not one of the sage's descendants, you're out of luck. No chakra for you. Which is another contradiction to the previous lore, which established bloodline limits and the ability to use chakra as two different things.

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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
But nobody said that people can't learn to use it. Also if hundreds of years have passed since the event then the Sage of 6 paths children could be in millions, since there is an exponential explosion in human reproduction, assuming that every time one parent has this chakra using ability all the chilren will have it.
Oh, I'm not saying that it's impossible for all ninja to be related to the sage, but think about the implications of that: If every single ninja is related to the sage, that means every single ninja has the potential for the rinnegan in their blood.

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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Also we shouldn't say that the Sage had just normal chakra like a normal person or even normal ninja, because as know he was able to beat and seal the 10 tails. That's not a normal human level ability. He surely had special chakra, that's from the "god tree", even Uchiha who have probably much weaker chakra can make a chakra monster called Susano, average ninja can't do that with their normal chakra, but that doesn't mean that they do not have chakra. Also it was never stated that some part of the people if they join the ninja academy will never be able to learn how to use chakra, so i'm assuming everybody can learn it to an extent. But most people just stay at genin level, probably those who have neither special talent nor inherited some level of chakra use ability from the Sage.
Except that Madara was quite clear on the tree in this chapter: All the chakra that all the ninja are using is world tree chakra. That's why it's trying to get it back from every single ninja in reach.

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Mostly because it kills people, no matter what Naruto does people just die, and Naruto's despair is back, we see it on his face. Let's see if Kishi has the balls to kill Sakura in the next chapter
Now that I agree with. Let's just hope Obito doesn't pull a Nagato and magically wishes everyone back. Again.

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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
However there's one thing that was not explained: Hashirama flashbacks to the young Madara telling him about his different dream, so at that point Madara already read the stone tablet's whole text, which means he should have had the rinnegan, but this was before he fought Hashirama and got his cells, and later he even states that he got his rinnegan only at an old age. So either you can read the tablet with only an EMS or something is wrong here
"Instant plot device, just add Uchiha tablet."
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Old 2013-09-11, 06:24   Link #73
Masuzu
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I actually loved this chapter.

So hyped when I read it, though there's still more in the future I think.
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Old 2013-09-11, 06:36   Link #74
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So the sage was born to a woman with chakra in her from the god tree.Well this confirms an old theory of mine(actually it's science but as pertaining to the story) that a child inherits everything that's in a mothers body,chemicals,germs,chakra,etc..(you are what mom eats)So Naruto being the only person born to a jinchuriki has inherited some of Karama's chakra,giving his personal signature some of the original.
So if the sage was Jesus than Naruto is the Messiah.
Who was the sage's father?

Also people can get chakra through other means besides being born with it,like the first person to use/have chakra.You can eat something and absorb it,so once chakra residue was squirted into the world animals could have obtained it from eating,for example,a dead soldier killed with chakra that retained some.And we know chakra can be built up through meditation, and just time can build chakra up again.And who's to say this lady was the only one who ever took from the tree.

Last edited by Monster0; 2013-09-11 at 07:20.
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Old 2013-09-11, 09:04   Link #75
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Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
That might be the way to end the ninja system. Depower everyone and return the world to the way it was before. Of course there was war then, but not with the nuclear bombs chakra can produce. A world where one guy like the Third Raikage can't fight 10,000 people on his own thanks to his ninjutsu and chakra.

Return all chakra to the tree and then destroy it to free the world of this curse.
God that sounds awful; what a horrendous moral Kishimoto would be teaching his audience. Instead of the people growing and maturing as a race, coming to the conclusion that needless violence and hatred is actually bad, they instead need to simply wish away their powers and responsibilities since they obviously will only ever abuse the power and continue to hurt each other. Because Narutokind can never be anything but the brutes they are.

That is a pretty damn bleak outlook for a Shounen series.

Madara sees the presence of chakra as being the cause of all evil (or at least the escalation of evil). We know Madara is wrong since he is the villain (, there is ample moral and ethical discussions that can show just why Madara's prelapsarian discussion is just plain stupid), so obviously doing away with all chakra is not even close to being what Kishimoto wants or is interested in, nor should it be considering how amazingly pessimistic the very idea is.

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Who was the sage's father?
Duh, the Jyuubi. Simply by eating the fruit, the Princess fell pregnant with the Sage. Badabing-badaboom instant baby.

Last edited by james0246; 2013-09-11 at 13:17.
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Old 2013-09-11, 10:00   Link #76
Artimus_Prime
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Originally Posted by Ushio the Omega View Post
So in a way the sage of six paths altered everyone to have chakra circulatory system's so that rather than the insane training other series use for characters to be able to use ki it allows them to be far more powerful at a much younger age with far less work.
or maybe O. Kaguya blessed the world with chakra in exchange for peace. assuming the depiction of her in the chapter post larceny is not just her "radiance" but her actually distributing chakra to mankind…just speculating and im sure not very likely

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Except according to this chapter, the very ability to use chakra itself is a bloodline. If you're not one of the sage's descendants, you're out of luck. No chakra for you. Which is another contradiction to the previous lore, which established bloodline limits and the ability to use chakra as two different things.



Oh, I'm not saying that it's impossible for all ninja to be related to the sage, but think about the implications of that: If every single ninja is related to the sage, that means every single ninja has the potential for the rinnegan in their blood.
lets say kaguya distributed chakra…perhaps she didn't give to all of mankind. but the soldiers at war/people actually doing the fighting. those descendants would be the current shinobi if not every human has chakra or the ability to mold it.
in regards to the rinnegan, you likely have to be a direct direct descendant. even the senju and uchiha can't acquire the rinnegan without special conditions...



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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Madara sees the presence of chakra as being the cause of all evil. We know Madara is wrong since he is the villain (, there is ample moral and ethical discussion that can show just why Madara's prelapsarian discussion is just plain stupid)), so obviously doing away with all chakra is not even close to being what Kishimoto wants or is interested in, nor should it be considering how amazingly pessimistic the very idea is.
yeah madara has to be wrongs since men were at war before 'the apple" and evil existed before the appearance of chakra. i hope it doesnt require an origin to the origin story. the tree and the fruit likely kept the world/universe in some sort of balance. i get the impressiion that creating a world complete with peace is just as bad as a world devoid of it. which may be why the tree wasnt involved in the fighting. im curious to know why this "great genjutsu" existed to begin with. maybe the juubi/shinju resets the world (no no please not the matrix) every millennium and taking that fruit just effed shit alllllllll the way up

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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
What I wondered though: How did the 8-tails know about the transformations of the Juubi? The tailed beasts were created after the Juubi was defeated, so they should have no knowledge, except of the things they were told by the sage. But then it shouldn't talk so confidently.
the bijou are the juubi right? i guess they should know quite a bit...
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Old 2013-09-11, 17:02   Link #77
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So, let me get this straight...

1. The 10 tailed beast is actually a tree with 10 roots
2. It finally beared fruit, so a woman ate it.
3. She had a super powered child
4. The tree, somehow angry that it's fruit was eaten, goes on some kind of rampage
5. The super-powered child defeats the tree, and for some unknown reason, sees splitting it into 9 angry beasts as the best course of action
6. The surplus tree power (there has to be for this to make any sense) is put into every natural being/object/force on the planet?
7. He crushes the tree into a ball and throws it into space.

Have I got that right?
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Old 2013-09-11, 17:05   Link #78
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Er...Did Kishi really have to give the manga even more biblical undertones? I mean I know Naruto is supposed to be Jesus and the sons of Ridoku Sennin being akin to Cain and Abel but this is getting ridiculous.
thats brilliant.

I thought this chapter was alright, I don't really understand why Sasuke had that meh face though.
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Old 2013-09-11, 19:44   Link #79
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Has this series turned into Neon Genesis Evangelion?
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Old 2013-09-12, 00:00   Link #80
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Has this series turned into Neon Genesis Evangelion?
Naruto Ninja Evangelion you mean?
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