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Old 2013-09-16, 20:57   Link #641
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
I think, if the article truly said Alis's name, he'd have realized it. He put it there, so it's probably safe to assume he read it too.
You would have thought that he read it. He was shown reading articles in the other libraries. We just need to align the flashback with the newspaper articles and figure out how he's still alive outside of the barrier.

I don't think that Dee is lying. (We saw the end of that flashback 1 episode prior, before her meeting with Ai.) The event that I would have lied about would have been shooting Alis and not how I died.

Could have the reset by Dee altered his memories?
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Old 2013-09-16, 21:07   Link #642
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
You would have thought that he read it. He was shown reading articles in the other libraries. We just need to align the flashback with the newspaper articles and figure out how he's still alive outside of the barrier.

I don't think that Dee is lying. The event that I would have lied about would have been shooting Alis and not how I died.

Could the reset by Dee altered his memories?
I think he is loosing parts of his memories every time the reset takes place if he is inside.
Otherwise hiding the article wouldn't make sense in the first place. At least not hiding it somewhere inside the school rather than his home where they are safe.


I think he doesn't remember them because Dee made sure they wouldn't be part of the next world.
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Last edited by AC-Phoenix; 2013-09-16 at 22:17. Reason: spelling
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Old 2013-09-16, 21:16   Link #643
orion
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Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
I think he losses parts of his memories every time the reset takes place if he is inside.
Otherwise hiding the article wouldn't make sense in the first place. At least not hiding it somewhere inside the school rather than his home where they are safe.


I think he doesn't remember them because Dee made sure they wouldn't be part of the next world.
I thought it was weird hiding it in school also. There are places you could hide it at his house.
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Old 2013-09-16, 22:38   Link #644
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Yeah which might indeed be a sign that Dee can enter his house as she pleases (one way or another).
Still that article referring to an Alice as male bothers me.
Why the students and the teacher vanished is no big mystery, whether they used the right articles in the article however is.

Them referring to a female as male by accident would really screw the mystery up with that name.
On the other hand, we got Alis, who is actually being pronounced like Alice, by Ai.

I'm also not sure the damage to the head got referred to for fun. This is a mystery there has to be a reason to it.
Either way it at least explains the wish - if the head is crushed then they won't be able to move even when being undead. I still think there is more than that behind it though, might be just me overthinking it due to Dee behavior though.

Dee lying about her having died instead of Alis is a strong possibility too.
A mere witness can lie or have wrong interpretations as much as they like and even voice them as long as there is a hint that proves them wrong.

That being said I'm usnure if I should still consider this a solvable mystery if you need to understand an untranslated text for it. (there was no japanese translation either I think).
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Old 2013-09-17, 08:45   Link #645
orion
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Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
Yeah which might indeed be a sign that Dee can enter his house as she pleases (one way or another).
Still that article referring to an Alice as male bothers me.
Why the students and the teacher vanished is no big mystery, whether they used the right articles in the article however is.

Them referring to a female as male by accident would really screw the mystery up with that name.
On the other hand, we got Alis, who is actually being pronounced like Alice, by Ai.

I'm also not sure the damage to the head got referred to for fun. This is a mystery there has to be a reason to it.
Either way it at least explains the wish - if the head is crushed then they won't be able to move even when being undead. I still think there is more than that behind it though, might be just me overthinking it due to Dee behavior though.

Dee lying about her having died instead of Alis is a strong possibility too.
A mere witness can lie or have wrong interpretations as much as they like and even voice them as long as there is a hint that proves them wrong.

That being said I'm usnure if I should still consider this a solvable mystery if you need to understand an untranslated text for it. (there was no japanese translation either I think).
I was thinking that the text could intentionally use gender neutral words or blur the gender on the video in a way to interpret it as male. That's why I was pointing to the longer article for looking at (13:01) as it seems to be the original article and the other article was taken from that one. I figure that it would be harder not to hide a gender in that article as it was a huge article. We are in an age where people take screen caps so I would think that the animators would know that people would be looking at the newspaper articles.

Though Dee lying about that is a possibility, that's prob something that most people don't lie about. It would have given her more fuel for maintaining the space to say that Alis is really dead and not her. Also, she had a view from above as she was falling so anyone coming after her thru a window she should have seen. Plus, 2 Gravekeepers recognize Alis as alive so he's prob not "dead". I'm sure that Scar or Ai would have spoken up if he was dead outside of the barrier. (He would have been a safety risk.)
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Old 2013-09-17, 09:00   Link #646
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You know, assuming their time doesn't fast forward once the closed space ends, but rather starts up as if it just happened... wouldn't Dee merely be "dead", but not "gone dead"? Meaning... she could just move to Ortiz. She can be friends with Ula and what's his name, the human chimera boy.
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Old 2013-09-17, 09:02   Link #647
orion
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
You know, assuming their time doesn't fast forward once the closed space ends, but rather starts up as if it just happened... wouldn't Dee merely be "dead", but not "gone dead"? Meaning... she could just move to Ortiz. She can be friends with Ula and what's his name, the human chimera boy.
True. But then if Alis were still alive, she'd be separated from him. He'd go off, get married, have kids with someone else (Ai just might be able to get pregnant.), possibly forget about her and she's stuck inside Ortis. Safe until those Gravekeepers figure out how to get around Ula.
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Old 2013-09-17, 09:11   Link #648
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
You know, assuming their time doesn't fast forward once the closed space ends, but rather starts up as if it just happened... wouldn't Dee merely be "dead", but not "gone dead"? Meaning... she could just move to Ortiz. She can be friends with Ula and what's his name, the human chimera boy.
Sadly no.
Whoever died there will have to be buried, not because Ai and Scar are Gravekeepers but because the victim's head has been crushed, which means they won't be able to move. (EP 1 and 2).


Gravekeepers recognizing him as alive doesn't mean anything considering how everyone there resets once a year.
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Old 2013-09-17, 10:39   Link #649
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Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
Sadly no.
Whoever died there will have to be buried, not because Ai and Scar are Gravekeepers but because the victim's head has been crushed, which means they won't be able to move. (EP 1 and 2).
Depends on whether or not the death "exists" or if it would be "forced". Bad way to explain it, but basically whether she dies regardless or if she dies via crushed head every time. Like... if she could end the loop merely by getting shot or something rather than having to fall.
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Old 2013-09-17, 17:52   Link #650
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This just came to me: what if neither the article nor Dee are lying and both accounts are true. What if Dee really did die back when the loop started but the way they get out of the loop is that Alis dies instead of her. There are quite a bit of plot holes in this theory though because I can't explain how the body shows up right on the next day after the loop ends while the rest of the class disappears and it also doesn't account for the ghost like appearance of Dee outside the loop. It also throws the story into some complex time paradox stuff as well.
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Old 2013-09-17, 23:25   Link #651
orion
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Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
Sadly no.
Whoever died there will have to be buried, not because Ai and Scar are Gravekeepers but because the victim's head has been crushed, which means they won't be able to move. (EP 1 and 2).


Gravekeepers recognizing him as alive doesn't mean anything considering how everyone there resets once a year.
That's another thing. This was a low altitude fall (4 stories) which can be survivable. Makes you wonder what happened on the way down and how he/she landed.

Maybe the dimension will go easy on the occupants after its gone and do a reset landing them all alive at the school.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Depends on whether or not the death "exists" or if it would be "forced". Bad way to explain it, but basically whether she dies regardless or if she dies via crushed head every time. Like... if she could end the loop merely by getting shot or something rather than having to fall.
Or...having Alis fall and survive. That would totally end the loop I bet.
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Old 2013-09-18, 12:48   Link #652
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Depends on whether or not the death "exists" or if it would be "forced". Bad way to explain it, but basically whether she dies regardless or if she dies via crushed head every time. Like... if she could end the loop merely by getting shot or something rather than having to fall.
I actually meant that if she/he fell out of the window and hit their head as badly as they make it sound then it is very unlikely that ´, the deceased would be able to walk even if the loop ceases to exist.
They would be undead but unable to move.

So thats probably the reason they wanted that event changed because if the person had died under normal circumstances they would have just stood up undead and everything would have been fine - giving them very little reason to make such a powerful wish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
Or...having Alis fall and survive. That would totally end the loop I bet.
As I previously theorized, I think stopping whatever event caused the wish will stop the loop.

Its pretty much : Death - with- death-wish-death-wish atm. take out the death and you take out the wish
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Old 2013-09-21, 11:55   Link #653
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Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
The Studio should reset the anime back to Ep 1 and do a proper adaptation :P
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Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Oh lol. Someone at 2chan made a joke about Hocchan's age being reset. . So that's how she's done it all this years.
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Old 2013-09-21, 13:12   Link #654
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Spoiler for Episode 12 (End):
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Old 2013-09-21, 18:31   Link #655
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Old 2013-09-22, 05:56   Link #656
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This ending... so confusing really...

If Alis is the one who really died then why is Dee a ghost in the outside world?
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Old 2013-09-22, 05:59   Link #657
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This ending... so confusing really...
Making perfect sense has never been this series' forte I thought it was a powerful ending just the same, though. I bet Chiibi was crying harder than any of Alis' classmates whenever he died.
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Old 2013-09-22, 06:17   Link #658
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I want to clarify which novel's volumes the episodes were adapted from. Is this correct?
Vol 1: Ep 1-3
Vol 2: Ep 4-6
Vol 3: Ep 7-8
Vol 4: Ep 9
Vol 5: Ep 10-12

Also, is it true the last arc in the anime had some differences with novel's vol 5 and it went with an anime original ending?
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Old 2013-09-22, 06:56   Link #659
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This was incredibly disappointing.
I won't lie that Kaminai didn't impress me after Kizuna's arc due to the convulated plot points for each arc thereafter, but at least Alice and Dee's arc could raise the bar after Scar and the school parts.

Still, the conclusion of this arc, albeit initially poignant, was absurdely underwhelming regarding the unanswered parts of it: why Dee was an astral body to begin with? How come the world would reset if Dee was about to die? And what did Ai do to Alice in the end?
Seriously, the pacing wasn't even an issue during this arc, save the impression they could add an extra episode to explain the aftermath etc. Having "fin" like that is just "there" to make the audience realize that it was -really- the last episode of the series.


Overall, Kaminai had an excellent atmosphere in term of aesthetic with an appropriate soundtracks, along with an interesting setting. But starting with Kizuna's arc conclusion, the plot and the characters just crashed and burned the whole show for me. More often than not, Ai wasn't really an actor in the events of the subsequent arcs, but rather a catalyst for the side characters. Meanwhile, Yuri was just useless most of the time, while Scar was definitely bland to no end (and no, her mini "mother arc" hardly contributed anything to her character development, considering how short and convulated it was).
Frankly, only the arc specific characters were interesting in Kaminai, and still couldn't salvage the plot issues given there.

And to finally add the insult to the injury, the anime abruptly end with a nonsensical conclusion, without even a decent narrative part like "and there, Ai continued her journey". No, they just end the arc right there and BAAM.


Really, it is a shame a story with a fine potential like went downhill so early, just for "that" kind of ending.
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Old 2013-09-22, 06:57   Link #660
Marina2
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@AP24

I heard LN reader said that.......

Spoiler for LN Comparison to anime ending:



....................................

Final thought: While the story seems to lose its focus after the first arc ended, the plot is confusing at many points, and the ending is totally anti-climax. The show's characters, visual and music saved it for me.

I will remember Deeas one of my favorite character.
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