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Old 2013-09-22, 17:31   Link #9341
Rising Dragon
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I've already explained that half a dozen times and you've ignored it entirely so far. Why the hell should I say it a seventh time?
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Old 2013-09-22, 19:17   Link #9342
monster
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
I've already explained that half a dozen times and you've ignored it entirely so far. Why the hell should I say it a seventh time?
And your explanation is still trying to force real-world science into this matter, which still goes against what we see in the show itself.

Like I said, you can say that Destiny is using bad science, and if that is a flaw for you, fine. But that's no excuse to say that Freedom can't do it.

So it doesn't matter, either Freedom could do it all along and Kira simply chose to get a free ride from the Kusanagi anyway, or it's a new upgrade.

And I've already addressed the inconsistency "issue."
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Old 2013-09-22, 19:25   Link #9343
Rising Dragon
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I used more than just real-world science in my explanations, actually, but I see you're ignoring that too.
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Old 2013-09-22, 19:33   Link #9344
monster
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I used more than just real-world science in my explanations, actually, but I see you're ignoring that too.
And I've already addressed your other points.
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Old 2013-09-22, 19:40   Link #9345
Rising Dragon
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Then like I said: fuck this. There's no point in continuing a debate with the other side refusing to acknowledge any flaw in the show, perceived or objective.
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Old 2013-09-22, 19:40   Link #9346
Gundamx
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The Freedom is ~1/3 of the way to orbit and nowhere closer if it's on the ground with completely full fuel tanks, insane acceleration that would kill any human, and a damn good amount of miniaturization
1-fuel = freedom have Neutron Jammer Canceller ( nuclear reactors ) = unlimited energy specially if he was not spamming his beam

2-insane acceleration that would kill any human = Kira not normal human
(Ultimate Coordinator = He enter the Earth sphere without MS prepared for Earth entry and only got some high fever)

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Old 2013-09-22, 19:41   Link #9347
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by Gundamx View Post
fuel = freedom have Neutron Jammer Canceller ( nuclear reactors ) = unlimited energy specially if he was not spamming his beam

insane acceleration that would kill any human = Kira not normal human
(Ultimate Coordinator = He enter the Earth sphere without MS prepared for Earth entry and only got some high fever)
Fuel isn't reaction mass. To use the nuclear reactor for thruster exhaust and propulsion, it'd need nuclear thrusters, which it most certainly does not have.
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Old 2013-09-22, 19:47   Link #9348
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Originally Posted by Gundamx View Post
1-fuel = freedom have Neutron Jammer Canceller ( nuclear reactors ) = unlimited energy specially if he was not spamming his beam
What RD said.

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2-insane acceleration that would kill any human = Kira not normal human
(Ultimate Coordinator = He enter the Earth sphere without MS prepared for Earth entry and only got some high fever)
Err... what does re-entry have to do with anything? That's 1 G of acceleration. Not 20. If that were the case, how the hell would you explain Lacus freefalling to Earth in the Infinite Justice without being turned into paste?
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Old 2013-09-22, 19:52   Link #9349
Rising Dragon
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Kira's survival of the reentry isn't just because he's a Coordinator (and at this point it was too early to reveal the Ultimate Coordinator bit, and if you believe Fukuda's retcon nonsense, his being the Ultimate Coordinator isn't as ultimate as you think). It's also because the G-Weapons were designed to be reentry capable. The Freedom and Justice, having been developed from the G-Weapons, also had this capability.
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Old 2013-09-22, 20:04   Link #9350
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Kira also only gets a fever because he was knocked out of a controlled rentry and fried for a while before AA landed under him, surving because he was a coordinator. With Freedom he does it properly (shield blocking the heat, and using Himat to control his descent) and thus is perfectly unharmed.

As far as having nuclear thrusters, either they do, or the Nuclear reactor is somehow converted into thruster fuel because it's mentioned Freedom and Justice can operate indefinitely without resupply, and Kira flies from Plant to earth, fights in the Alaska battle and escapes the explosion, and says Freedom STILL doesn't need to be resupplied because it has a nuclear power. Likewise Athrun also flies to Earth, retraces Kira's path, and follows him several days all the way Orb and then fights against the Druggies, again without ever stopping to refuel.

Or it's possible all CE MS's just have some kind of infinite fuel supply, because fuel is never ever shown to be an issue, with any them.
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Old 2013-09-22, 20:06   Link #9351
monster
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Then like I said: fuck this. There's no point in continuing a debate with the other side refusing to acknowledge any flaw in the show, perceived or objective.
What does that have to do with anything? You made some claims and I gave you some counterclaims from the show.

It's not about refusing to acknowledge any flaw, it's about you ignoring my response.
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Old 2013-09-22, 20:21   Link #9352
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
As far as having nuclear thrusters, either they do, or the Nuclear reactor is somehow converted into thruster fuel because it's mentioned Freedom and Justice can operate indefinitely without resupply, and Kira flies from Plant to earth, fights in the Alaska battle and escapes the explosion, and says Freedom STILL doesn't need to be resupplied because it has a nuclear power. Likewise Athrun also flies to Earth, retraces Kira's path, and follows him several days all the way Orb and then fights against the Druggies, again without ever stopping to refuel.
Frankly speaking, if the Freedom used nuclear thrusters, in that episode Lacus and Andrew would be dead. Nuclear thrusters produce superheated radioactive plasma for thrust and it is WAY hotter than conventional rockets. When he flew in front of that shuttle, he would've irradiated the hell out of it and melted the cockpit to slag besides. It wouldn't be allowed to be fielded at all in any terrestrial environment because of how much harm it would do.

So the Freedom CAN NOT have nuclear thrusters.

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What does that have to do with anything? You made some claims and I gave you some counterclaims from the show.

It's not about refusing to acknowledge any flaw, it's about you ignoring my response.
Turnabout's a bitch, then, isn't it? Like I said, there's no point in continuing this debate with you. There's no point in continuing ANY SEED debate with you. You are completely incapable of seeing flaw in the show and will actively defend any problem with it no matter what is presented to you.
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Old 2013-09-22, 20:27   Link #9353
monster
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Turnabout's a bitch, then, isn't it?
What turnabout? You're the one who keeps ignoring my points and yet you're the who likes to accuse me of ignoring yours. That's not a turnabout, that's hypocritical on your part.
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Like I said, there's no point in continuing this debate with you. There's no point in continuing ANY SEED debate with you. You are completely incapable of seeing flaw in the show and will actively defend any problem with it no matter what is presented to you.
You know, if I can defend a so-called "problem" and give my justification from the show, the least you can do is address those points I made.

But you don't do that, you just go back to whining that I don't acknowledge SEED's problem.
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Old 2013-09-22, 20:40   Link #9354
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You have ignored my points! Mine AND Kuroi's! You've ignored it simply because that's how it was depicted in the show and using insane logic and what-ifs! Your logic paints an inconsistency when you said yourself you'd be against such inconsistencies!
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Old 2013-09-22, 20:42   Link #9355
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Frankly speaking, if the Freedom used nuclear thrusters, in that episode Lacus and Andrew would be dead. Nuclear thrusters produce superheated radioactive plasma for thrust and it is WAY hotter than conventional rockets. When he flew in front of that shuttle, he would've irradiated the hell out of it and melted the cockpit to slag besides. It wouldn't be allowed to be fielded at all in any terrestrial environment because of how much harm it would do.

So the Freedom CAN NOT have nuclear thrusters.
While that's entirely true, and it can't have nuclear thrusters and fly about the Earth as it does it was non the less stated in Freedom's debut that it could run indefinitely without resupply. And as mentioned it and Justice run for days without refueling.

So it must get its infinite power to its thrusters somehow. It's possible they run on electrical power, like the rest of the MS. Or it has some kind of system to convert nuclear power into fuel for the thrusters.

Considering its mentioned that fossil fuels were long abandoned in CE in favor of better and more sustainable power sources they obviously run on some kind of super high tech fuel and not jet or rocket fuel.
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Old 2013-09-22, 20:57   Link #9356
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
While that's entirely true, and it can't have nuclear thrusters and fly about the Earth as it does it was non the less stated in Freedom's debut that it could run indefinitely without resupply. And as mentioned it and Justice run for days without refueling.

So it must get its infinite power to its thrusters somehow. It's possible they run on electrical power, like the rest of the MS. Or it has some kind of system to convert nuclear power into fuel for the thrusters.

Considering its mentioned that fossil fuels were long abandoned in CE in favor of better and more sustainable power sources they obviously run on some kind of super high tech fuel and not jet or rocket fuel.
Look, the Freedom wouldn't have used a whole damn lot to get to Alaska in the first place. There's no drag in space. There's nothing to really slow it down. He'd only need to use a little bit of thrust to adjust his course, and fuel only becomes a factor again once he gets into the atmosphere. Even across the several days it was in operation.

The fuel used, no matter it be jet fuel or rocket fuel or who the fuck knows what fuel, won't change a damn thing as for its inability to get into space on its own power. The equations are still the same. The only change would be in the efficiency; the drive would burn hotter and fuel will burn better, but it won't change a damn thing in its ability to get out of the planet's gravitational pull if it doesn't have the deltaV budget.

And fuel conversion's still a mess thanks to thermodynamics anyway; each conversion would be affected by entropy. It's the same mess as the HDNR all over again.
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Old 2013-09-22, 21:15   Link #9357
monster
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You have ignored my points! Mine AND Kuroi's! You've ignored it simply because that's how it was depicted in the show
Exactly. I didn't ignore just for the sake of ignoring it. I actually gave my reason.

I pointed out that this is fiction, but I also acknowledge that this can be bad science and that this may be a problem for some people.

But even with that problem (notice that I did not say it's not a problem), the show is still indicating that Freedom can go to space on its own, bad science or not.
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and using insane logic and what-ifs! Your logic paints an inconsistency when you said yourself you'd be against such inconsistencies!
Now this is an example of you just being dismissive of my points.

I didn't act like Destiny did not have inconsistency because it's some kind of a masterpiece. I justified my reasoning of why there is no inconsistency with Freedom being able to go to space because of what Lacus and Andrew said.
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Old 2013-09-22, 22:01   Link #9358
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Andrew? Isn't that the guy that died in the desert in SEED and has been haunting everyone as a ghost ever since?
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Old 2013-09-23, 00:55   Link #9359
S.Freedom
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hundreds of years more advanced than anything we have today.
I'm not so sure about that.

Seed started in CE 71, and from my understanding CE 1 was actually 2015. So CE 71 would be 2086. Even so, if tech advanced at a similar rate as it did from 1915 to 1986 who knows what may be possible.
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Old 2013-09-23, 01:11   Link #9360
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
The Freedom is ~1/3 of the way to orbit and nowhere closer if it's on the ground with completely full fuel tanks, insane acceleration that would kill any human, and a damn good amount of miniaturization.
I'm sorry, I don't understand what is stopping Freedom from leaving the Earth's atmosphere and accelerating into space. It's using rockets that clearly defy the Earth's gravity. As long as it has the fuel to maintain thrust, shouldn't it be able to accelerate indefinitely?
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