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View Poll Results: My-Otome Episode 20 Rating
Perfect 10 16 11.85%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 28 20.74%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 42 31.11%
7 out of 10 : Good 29 21.48%
6 out of 10 : Average 12 8.89%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 2.22%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 1.48%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.74%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.48%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2006-02-25, 11:19   Link #41
friendshipz
lilian gakuen
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: aoi sora
Age: 9
basically their conversation goes like this

tomoe: shizuru-sama from this day u will be staying in this room, i "wont" let anyone lay a hand on you/touch u
shizuru-sama: can u let me know one thing?what happen to the principal(natsuki)
tomoe: sry to tell u but she has been captured and been locked up in gardarode

tomoe: sore de, i have to continue wif my job, base on my performance i might get another reward
shizuru:so, u have to work harder nee...

direct translation from the chinese sub..lolz

Last edited by friendshipz; 2006-02-25 at 12:50.
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Old 2006-02-25, 11:55   Link #42
lone_wolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guest
This is also the part that make me think in this ep. I always thought that Tomoe at least cared for Shizuru at some level but not this bad. This is totally like "love = own her." I thought Tomoe was not that twisted.

Not that twisted???

*recalling all the incidents that occurred with Arika*
She's far beyond the deep end. It's not like she was ever stable to begin with....she just grew worse over time. Tomoe is *obsessed* than she is in love. It's the "Fatal Attraction" kind of love....hopefully she doesn't boil any bunnys anytime soon

I can't wait till she gets her *just* deserts. (picturing her ass being tormented)


--Lone Wolf
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Old 2006-02-25, 12:08   Link #43
Diodati
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Quote:
Originally Posted by friendshipz
bascially their conversation gones like this

tomoe: shizuru-sama from this day u will be staying in this room, i "wont" anyone lay a hand on you/touch u
shizuru-sama: can u let me know one thing?what happen to the principal(natsuki)
tomoe: sry to tell u but she has been captured and been locked up in gardarode

tomoe: sore de, i have to continue wif my job, base on my performance i might get another reward
shizuru:so, u have to work harder nee...

direct translation from the chinese sub..lolz
lol thankyou.

Based on that translation though:

Tomoe was able to move Shizuru out of the cell because she's been doing duties for Nagi/Schwarz - and if she does well with her performance in the future she may get another choice/reward - from Nagi/Schwarz.

I'm sorry but I fail to see the 'now you must reward me too oneesama' in that translation. Judging the scene and animation, Tomoe doesn't seem to automatically think her reward is getting physical with Shizuru, but being able to move her out the cell (which would fit better with the previous episode) I mean it is an improvement from a cell - Shizuru still being imprisoned doesn't seem to me a seedy masochistic plot on Tomoe's behalf, but simply because Nagi wouldn't let Shizuru go free anyway.

Tomoe mentions that she has to work harder to get another reward (like the one she's just got in getting Shizuru out of handcuffs) - we have no idea what Tomoe would choose for that to be. It's reading between the lines to suggest it's ''well Shiz I'm only going to work harder for you if you make it worth my while.''

It seems to be Shizuru who implies (and encourages) that she sees Tomoe working harder to get another reward 'for Shizuru' - however tongue-in-cheek that may be.

I don't mean to be the dissenter here, and maybe I'm dumb, but can people really pinpoint where exactly Tomoe comes across *that* sinister in this conversation.
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Old 2006-02-25, 12:59   Link #44
guest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diodati
lol thankyou.

Based on that translation though:

Tomoe was able to move Shizuru out of the cell because she's been doing duties for Nagi/Schwarz - and if she does well with her performance in the future she may get another choice/reward - from Nagi/Schwarz.

I'm sorry but I fail to see the 'now you must reward me too oneesama' in that translation. Judging the scene and animation, Tomoe doesn't seem to automatically think her reward is getting physical with Shizuru, but being able to move her out the cell (which would fit better with the previous episode) I mean it is an improvement from a cell - Shizuru still being imprisoned doesn't seem to me a seedy masochistic plot on Tomoe's behalf, but simply because Nagi wouldn't let Shizuru go free anyway.

Tomoe mentions that she has to work harder to get another reward (like the one she's just got in getting Shizuru out of handcuffs) - we have no idea what Tomoe would choose for that to be. It's reading between the lines to suggest it's ''well Shiz I'm only going to work harder for you if you make it worth my while.''

It seems to be Shizuru who implies (and encourages) that she sees Tomoe working harder to get another reward 'for Shizuru' - however tongue-in-cheek that may be.

I don't mean to be the dissenter here, and maybe I'm dumb, but can people really pinpoint where exactly Tomoe comes across *that* sinister in this conversation.
I think Tomoe's reward is Shizuru. Now she owns her. Another reward is God knows what. I mean, at this point, we don't know what Tomoe will be working on. "Then you will have to work hard" is a sarcasm from Shizuru. That is the way I see it.
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Old 2006-02-25, 13:12   Link #45
Efreeta
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I see Shizuru's line as sarcasm too.
My interpretation of this scene and its dynamics is the same as Mentar's; I'm borrowing a part of a post in Memento's blog (I hope it's not a problem), starting from the assumption that Shizuru thinks that Natsuki is captive and considering that now Tomoe has (black) power.

Quote:
In fact, I understood the "if I'd do well, I might get another reward" as a veiled threat-offer to Shizuru. "I did something for you, I might be able to do something for her, too". And when Shizuru took her up on this, THEN she moved in - and "cashed in", so to say. Denying Tomoe AFTER this line would have definitely frustrated and angered her. And thus been risky for Natsuki.

As for your other question, it's one thing to believe that Tomoe will help Natsuki if Shizuru plays along. Very unlikely so, especially since we know that Natsuki has escaped. But Shizuru CANNOT KNOW that. But it's evident to her that IF Tomoe is speaking the truth, rejecting her would definitely increase the risk for Natsuki due to a possible Tomoe retaliation. You can't be sure that she will keep her word in a positive way, but you can be VERY sure that she will retaliate in a bad way IF she is denied and has the means to harm Natsuki. So why take the extra risk?
[...]
Of course you are right that there may be hell to pay later on if Tomoe is pissed off when she realizes that Shizuru is leading her on. But that's something for the future. Rejecting now would piss her off right away...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diodati
Yeah I think Chie would be a great candidate, because she's the only one who knows that situation (well Erstin too, but that option fell through) I do feel a bit concerned for Chie, I'm sure she's not going to live till ep 25, and I'm not sure she's a big enough name to compel a reset.
I don't see a bright future for Chie either... maybe, like Aoi, she'll have to pay the price for arriving alive at the end of Mai HiME.
I really like her in MO, they created a very positive character for her.

Last edited by Efreeta; 2006-02-25 at 13:33.
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Old 2006-02-25, 13:39   Link #46
philip72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diodati
I don't mean to be the dissenter here, and maybe I'm dumb, but can people really pinpoint where exactly Tomoe comes across *that* sinister in this conversation.
I have to agree with Diodati here, she certainly was aggressive with Shizuru but does seem to genuinely care about her with a (pseudo-sinister?) passion only a teenager in love can emote.
More importantly she does not appear to be willfully threatening, but because she is now in a position of power (physically and legally) as a Valkyrie, we tend to interpret any sexual advances made towards Shizuru as potentially sexually violent and aggressive.
This would not have been the case a few weeks earlier when Shizuru held the power of a pillar and Tomoe was simply a Gaurderobe student.
If Tomoe was isolated and alone in the same room as Shizuru in their previous roles, I believe it is plausible that she still would have made a move on Shizuru. The difference of course would have been Shizuru's reaction to the same occurrence.


Also;
Inferences made by some that Shizuru is a p3d0 here and on other boards are confusing to me.
All the girls at the school seem to be post-pubescent and sexually mature.
To be kiddy simple you would have to have a physical attraction to prepubescents.
If the girl has enlarged breasts, a decent hip/waist ratio and is menstruating, she is physically an adult.

Now the girl in question may be very childlike or emotionally immature (e.g. Arinko) making it unethical to have a physical relationship with her. Or one may be in a position of power or authority over her (teacher, doctor, guardian) also bringing ethics into question, but the action would have nowhere near the depravity of assaulting a prepubescent.
There is simply no p3d0 cachet to being physically involved with someone who is sexually mature.
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Old 2006-02-25, 13:43   Link #47
Schneizel
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philip72, Tomoe just messed with the holy grounds of Shizuru x Natsuki. Shizuru can SURPRISE SEX Natsuki in HiME, but Tomoe inciting fun lesbianism in Otome is just plain illegal. That is an unforgiveable act that makes her the most sinister person ever. </sarcasm>
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Old 2006-02-25, 14:05   Link #48
philip72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kodachrome
philip72, Tomoe just messed with the holy grounds of Shizuru x Natsuki. Shizuru can SURPRISE SEX Natsuki in HiME, but Tomoe inciting fun lesbianism in Otome is just plain illegal. That is an unforgiveable act that makes her the most sinister person ever. </sarcasm>
I know, and the ironic thing about my post is the fact that I'm probably one of the biggest Shizuru x Natsuki boosters out there.
As a matter of fact I was devastated (How lame is that, eh?) when I saw the screen caps and read early blog commentary.
It wasn't until I watched the raw, that I realized the whole scene was nothing but an infatuated teen stealing a kiss.
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Old 2006-02-25, 14:21   Link #49
alangaruku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diodati
Well I'm going to hold off my judgement on what Tomoe's true motives are in this episode until I know a more accurate translation of her conversation with Shizuru. Some people (like Vallen) say it was near blackmail and that Shizuru knew Tomoe had imprisoned her 'for those deeds', and other people say that Tomoe was merely being suggestive, and that Shizuru played along with it and made Tomoe feel as though she 'could' get her reward.

Whichever it is, it's still power politics gone disturbingly wrong - I think I'd be less bothered if Tomoe was just a tiny bit older, Fujino/Kuga age.....that one year can make all the difference lol. I jest, I've merrily chimed support for Tomoe for the past 12 episodes because she causes drama - but ShizTom is being presented in such a warped scenario that I swear it's to consolidate ShizNat. Tomoe is her own worst enemy, bless her. It could have been hot but it's come across so one sided that it's just seedy. lolz. Sorry Jet :P

And I'm not discounting the possibility that nothing came of it - if Sunrise really wanted to confirm that direction they *wouldn't* have made the view go to the ceiling with a few rustlings.


Yeah I think Chie would be a great candidate, because she's the only one who knows that situation (well Erstin too, but that option fell through) I do feel a bit concerned for Chie, I'm sure she's not going to live till ep 25, and I'm not sure she's a big enough name to compel a reset.

Can't wait to see Mikoto next episode - and hopefully Mai isn't going to be left till the very end. I'm surprised they've dragged the appearances of these two out so long - they were so central to HiME and here it's a bit of a joke

Sadly, (knowing Sunrise) I think Maiwon't come 'till ep. 25-26!
I have noticed alot of Sunrise's anime are like that: Gundam Seed/Destiny,
Outlaw Star... etc... they drag on and on and have a rushed ending.
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Old 2006-02-25, 14:33   Link #50
Diodati
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efreeta
My interpretation of this scene and its dynamics is the same as Mentar's; I'm borrowing a part of a post in Memento's blog (I hope it's not a problem), starting from the assumption that Shizuru thinks that Natsuki is captive and considering that now Tomoe has (black) power.
Quote:
In fact, I understood the "if I'd do well, I might get another reward" as a veiled threat-offer to Shizuru. "I did something for you, I might be able to do something for her, too". And when Shizuru took her up on this, THEN she moved in - and "cashed in", so to say. Denying Tomoe AFTER this line would have definitely frustrated and angered her. And thus been risky for Natsuki.
Although I think that scenario would help make Shizuru look more desperate and Tomoe as only interested in her own physical desire, it would depend on two things:
- that once she says 'I may get another reward [from Nagi]', that she is actually alluding to Natsuki (or an ulterior level)
- and THAT is dependent on how likely Tomoe knows Shizuru would take her up on such an offer over those reasons.
Tomoe has given no indication that she knows anything about ShizuruxNatsuki: so what if Shizuru asks about the Principal, I doubt Tomoe would suddenly think about pouncing on that and implying ''I can pull some strings to help her if you make it worth my while.'' It would be normal for Shizuru to ask about where Natsuki is regardless (it's a hint to *us* rather than Tomoe)

To me I watch this as Tomoe answering about Natsuki and then Shizuru just staring at her - is Shiz shocked, dunno, maybe she sees through Tomoe. Why does Tomoe lie - who knows - it's even possible Nagi has told everyone that Natsuki is imprisoned anyway.

But Tomoe doesn't seem irritated by the question, she seems to get nervous and switches the conversation to something else before saying with more assurity and even positively:
''based on my performance I may get another reward'' - I viewed that as ''another reward to help you''. Because she *has* just helped Shizuru, she did get her out of the cell like she said she would last episode.

And Shizuru makes an encouragement on *that*, because Tomoe is about the only option Shizuru has I suppose.

That's how I saw it - I can understand people being dubious over Tomoe's intention judging her past actions - but on this particular translation aligned with facial expression then I'm going with what is literally 'said', as it fits Tomoe's behaviour far more last episode and why she would recruit up with Nagi in the first place. Any other double meanings I'm going to keep as speculation, because that sort of thing opens up a thousand meanings.

I mean you may all be right, we'll probably find out for sure next ep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philip72
It wasn't until I watched the raw, that I realized the whole scene was nothing but an infatuated teen stealing a kiss.
I agree, I am quite surprised by these sex-slave conspiracies lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alangaruku
I have noticed alot of Sunrise's anime are like that: Gundam Seed/Destiny,
Outlaw Star... etc... they drag on and on and have a rushed ending.
Well it's like leading up to the climax and then giving yourself 15 mins to actually end any of the questions. An ending shouldn't be the peak of everything Sunrise, otherwise it's like sticking the words ''The End'' in before we even have time to register what has happened.
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Old 2006-02-25, 14:49   Link #51
Preston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim
I had a bit of hope after watching episode 19 which for a change wasn't a complete disaster but just as I expected it died with episode 20. For umpteenth time instead of leaving the characters to decide something some plot device was used to make them decide in favour of whatever the writers had in mind and to hell with motivation and character development. This Jabal creature should have just been named a plot device creature. The only good part was when Mashiro and Arika argued who was the bigger moron. It's a tough choice, I readily agree. I wonder if we are going to have just a rushed and stupid ending or a reset as an icing of the cake. I also wonder who the hell took the photograph of Nao and Natsuki - a paparazzo hiding in the desert? It was quite a funny scene, though, but when will Haruka, Yukino or Natsuki actually do something important for a change? Episode 26? The fact that people discuss mainly Shizuru's scene proves how boring this episode actually was.
Oh for christ's sake, I've put up with this crap for ages, and I'm sure other people have as well. I used to think you were alright, being a fellow Arika-hater (not that my feelings are that strong anymore). But, really, you bash this *excellent* series continually, and if you think it is this bad, don't watch it and don't polute these forums with your anti-fan feelings. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diodati
Yeah I think Chie would be a great candidate, because she's the only one who knows that situation (well Erstin too, but that option fell through) I do feel a bit concerned for Chie, I'm sure she's not going to live till ep 25, and I'm not sure she's a big enough name to compel a reset.
A) Chie is a big enough name to take part in a reset but not to pull one. Erstin is that name. I hope. However, I expect much 'bigger' names to go before the end to warrant the reset. B) There will be a reset.. or things will burn. Actually, I'll just go "Well f^ck that" really quick in the credits and go finish watching Banner of the Stars. After comming on here and discussing the last episode for a few days. That's a point, how long do you think this community will live after the series ends?
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Old 2006-02-25, 18:08   Link #52
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Well, then, to the ignore list you would go, Matrim.

Frankly, I've never done this to anyone before... Not even to the guy who issued a death threat on me. (note my sig)

But there is a first time to anything...
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Old 2006-02-25, 18:43   Link #53
Tempest35
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*yawns* .... okay, we done with that now...

I want to comment more, but I think I really shouldn't...

As for who took the picture of Natsuki in the desert, a certain Musashi comes to mind...

Tomoe's a mystery and a half despite being predictable in how she reacts with Shizuru. If Shizuru had asked about Arika now, I bet Tomoe would have reacted in a much more negative fashion. Tomoe knows that Natsuki was Shizuru's kohai back in their day so it would be natural for her to be worried about her to an extent, also being the Principle is not withstanding.

Does Shizuru know that Natsuki escaped? She probably knows that Natsuki got away - she trained Natsuki herself (to an extent). The thing that I want to be able to tie in is how much does Tomoe resemble Shizuru when she was younger? What were herCoral and Pearl days like? I can't imagine Shizuru being this 'aggressive' with Natsuki when they were younger...
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Old 2006-02-25, 22:30   Link #54
djmaca
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I really pity Tomoe on this one.... makes me remember how I pity MH Shiz..... the love's not coming back to them....
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Old 2006-02-26, 00:36   Link #55
Kenji_Chaos
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however guys, remember the flashback in one of the episodes (i think the one that sergay was talking to the old lady)

maybe 2 ir more babies were involved...so mayb a baby switching occured
but we dont know who is who though XD

Last edited by Kenji_Chaos; 2006-02-26 at 02:07.
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Old 2006-02-26, 01:16   Link #56
philip72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmaca
I really pity Tomoe on this one.... makes me remember how I pity MH Shiz..... the love's not coming back to them....
Your right, in fact Tomoe is a little worse off in that regard than Mai HiME Shizuru.

Even though it was not really sexual at that point, Natsuki loved Shizuru more than anyone else on earth (as evidenced by the fact Shizuru disappeared when Natsuki's Child was destroyed).

Tomoe on the other hand is just one of many students at her wife's school and seems to have barely made any impact on her up to that point.

Although Natsuki did not desire a physical relationship with Shizuru during the HiME festival battles, she did requite her love, even going so far as to end their time together with a romantic kiss.

Poor Tomoe seems to be getting none of it as Shizuru's eyes roam everywhere but on the face of her young pursuer.
There is no love, she barely knows the girl.

Last edited by philip72; 2006-02-26 at 01:56. Reason: porr speling
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Old 2006-02-26, 01:37   Link #57
friendshipz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest35
*yawns* .... okay, we done with that now...

I want to comment more, but I think I really shouldn't...

As for who took the picture of Natsuki in the desert, a certain Musashi comes to mind...

Tomoe's a mystery and a half despite being predictable in how she reacts with Shizuru. If Shizuru had asked about Arika now, I bet Tomoe would have reacted in a much more negative fashion. Tomoe knows that Natsuki was Shizuru's kohai back in their day so it would be natural for her to be worried about her to an extent, also being the Principle is not withstanding.

Does Shizuru know that Natsuki escaped? She probably knows that Natsuki got away - she trained Natsuki herself (to an extent). The thing that I want to be able to tie in is how much does Tomoe resemble Shizuru when she was younger? What were herCoral and Pearl days like? I can't imagine Shizuru being this 'aggressive' with Natsuki when they were younger...

here this is priceless..i wonder how shizuru train natsuki...both in physical and mentally...
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Old 2006-02-26, 02:03   Link #58
twh
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The only worthwhile scene, as far as I could tell, was Haruka getting a good laugh at Natsuki's expense. Haruka's all "Who's the joke now, biyotch?" and in that was a long time coming, since we haven't even seen Natsuki do anything and poor Haruka's more of a joke here than she was back in HiME.

Mashiro's scenes, though actually working as far as character development goes, is a bit too late in the series for any hope of a satisfying ending as far as she's concerned. I mean, we only got six episodes left and we got about half a dozen plot points that need to get resolved. AND STILL NO MAI!!!

All the fan-wank aside, I just have this feeling in my gut that the last couple of episodes are going to be a long hard ride. Good story telling requires good set up and execution to make sure all the bases and plot holes are covered and Otome hasn't exactly tried to do that.

Even if Sunrise does succeed, I feel that they're going to come up with some pretty lame reasons why, or worse, another Reset. I mean, for example the whole "Intolerant to Y Chromosomes" Nanomachines was always a pretty weak argument, still is, in fact. The way I see it, if the series had started the way it did and let the current arc (Mashiro and Co. in exile, the Toilet Academy under Nagi's control, the Valkyries, etc) start on, say, episode 5 or 6, Otome could have been a whole lot better. Oh well.
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Old 2006-02-26, 04:37   Link #59
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Okay episode, still not enough things happening. Lots of yuri tendencies though.

Mai-Otome 20 out from Doremi-fansubs.
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Old 2006-02-26, 08:14   Link #60
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Nina's love of Segey is a pretty disturbing thing...maybe she has a thing for violent men?
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