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Old 2013-09-23, 20:49   Link #821
LuckyCat
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
The Z fighters couldn't even tell what was going on by then. There's no way they would've pointed it out. Not only that, but it wasn't an important plot point so they wouldn't have even cared to do so.
I have to disagree. This show is not subtle about characters using techniques. It's true that no one was close enough, but I would argue that the writers could easily have changed that or used visual effects. Ultimately, this series is meant for young audiences, and is famous for making painstaking efforts to explain what's going on.
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Old 2013-09-23, 21:07   Link #822
GDB
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Originally Posted by LuckyCat View Post
I have to disagree. This show is not subtle about characters using techniques. It's true that no one was close enough, but I would argue that the writers could easily have changed that or used visual effects. Ultimately, this series is meant for young audiences, and is famous for making painstaking efforts to explain what's going on.
It's also famous for not animated the SSJ2 animation. Pretty much everything in the show after Super Buu appeared they stopped animating it, even when it was SSJ2 in the manga.
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Old 2013-09-24, 09:07   Link #823
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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^With Vegeta, Adult Gohan, and Gotenks, you may have an argument since their SSJ2 hair is virtually identical to their SSJ1 hair thus creating ambiguity. But for Goku, as I said already, there's a clear distinction between his SSJ1 hair and SSJ2 hair, and this movie definitely showed his SSJ1 hair during his battle with Bills at the end. There's no debating this. And since this movie has no manga counterpart, you can't use the manga as a comparison to show that Goku wasn't SSJ1. This discussion is over.
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Old 2013-09-24, 09:20   Link #824
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ssj2 aura has blue lightning
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Old 2013-09-24, 09:43   Link #825
GDB
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
^With Vegeta, Adult Gohan, and Gotenks, you may have an argument since their SSJ2 hair is virtually identical to their SSJ1 hair thus creating ambiguity. But for Goku, as I said already, there's a clear distinction between his SSJ1 hair and SSJ2 hair, and this movie definitely showed his SSJ1 hair during his battle with Bills at the end. There's no debating this. And since this movie has no manga counterpart, you can't use the manga as a comparison to show that Goku wasn't SSJ1. This discussion is over.
I don't believe they properly animated his hair to distinguish between SSJ and SSJ2 in his fight vs Kid Buu, though. Past precedent would weigh heavier than "no manga comparison for the movie". But if you truly want to believe that Toei can't screw up, despite multiple instances of such already occurring in different capacities within the movie itself, be my guest. You're free to believe what you want, but I'm not buying it.

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Originally Posted by hamazura View Post
ssj2 aura has blue lightning
Good lord, as has been stated over and over again, Toei is lazy and rarely animates that. It is not proof of anything.
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Old 2013-09-24, 10:54   Link #826
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
It's also famous for not animated the SSJ2 animation. Pretty much everything in the show after Super Buu appeared they stopped animating it, even when it was SSJ2 in the manga.
It's safer to say it's regular SSJ without affirmative cues from the staff saying otherwise. The more interesting question, I think, is what did Goku use to neutralize Bills's Super Energy Sphere? It seemed to amuse Bills enough to spare Goku's life.
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Old 2013-09-24, 11:02   Link #827
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Originally Posted by LuckyCat View Post
The more interesting question, I think, is what did Goku use to neutralize Bills's Super Energy Sphere? It seemed to amuse Bills enough to spare Goku's life.
I figured it was just the standard effect that happens when two equal strengths clash. Goku reattained SSJ God by himself and basically bursted its power to cancel the attack.
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Old 2013-09-24, 13:03   Link #828
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
I figured it was just the standard effect that happens when two equal strengths clash. Goku reattained SSJ God by himself and basically bursted its power to cancel the attack.
I'd like to think that it was some kind of absorption, that this is the true power of SSG and more specifically the ultimate evolution of the Saiyan. Absorption, in a manner, is already the means to which to become an SSG. Bills said that Goku had absorbed some of the SSG power into himself, which was why his power didn't drop dramatically when he lost SSG. The Saiyans themselves are supposed to be considered limitless in power potential, always evolving after a fight. So perhaps their ultimate evolution isn't just some uber ultimate powerful form, but rather the limitless capacity to which that form will allow.

Meh, well that's my crackpot theory. Am I the only one itching for a new series?
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Old 2013-09-24, 16:07   Link #829
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
I don't believe they properly animated his hair to distinguish between SSJ and SSJ2 in his fight vs Kid Buu, though. Past precedent would weigh heavier than "no manga comparison for the movie". But if you truly want to believe that Toei can't screw up, despite multiple instances of such already occurring in different capacities within the movie itself, be my guest. You're free to believe what you want, but I'm not buying it.
And this is where you've lost all credibility. That fight was filler in the anime, and in that fight, Goku was SSJ2, not SSJ1. You need to get your eyes checked. Past precedence doesn't save you in this discussion. It works sometimes, but in this case it certainly doesn't. You're just in denial, and it's clear you've lost this "debate" which shouldn't have even occurred in the first place because anyone with a modicum of sense and decent eyesight can see it's SSJ1 Goku vs. Bills in this movie. I never even implied that Toei can't screw up (if you properly read my posts before you'd know that I acknowledged Toei's animation errors at times), and you haven't refuted anything I've said concerning Goku's SSJ1 and SSJ2 hair in this movie. I'm right and you're wrong.

That being said, have fun deluding yourself if it makes you feel better. I don't waste my time with obstinate trolls. To the ignore list you go.
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Old 2013-09-24, 18:35   Link #830
GDB
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I disagree so I'm a troll? How nice. Putting someone on the ignore list for disagreeing with you in a calm manner makes you lose all credibility.

And I'd say the fact they can't even get the Mystic status of Gohan correct after being told to get it correct and having to fix it in one instance but not the other, let alone SSJ2 on the likes of Vegeta, is enough to discount "hair style" for Goku. There's no logical reason not to go SSJ2 at any and all times when SSJ would otherwise be invoked. It's literally just SSJ but better with no downsides, unlike SSJ3's energy drain.

And excuse me for not remembering every minute detail of a series that ended 10 freaking years ago and what aspects of it were filler and what wasn't. But just for your reference, no, he was not SSJ2 according to the anime: http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Bat...niverse_Begins

Check the images. No lightning aura. He had it when he initially powered up, but then throughout the fight he did not have it. Perhaps you're the one who "needs to get your eyes checked".

Last edited by GDB; 2013-09-24 at 18:46.
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Old 2013-09-24, 19:51   Link #831
LuckyCat
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Originally Posted by saravis View Post
I'd like to think that it was some kind of absorption, that this is the true power of SSG and more specifically the ultimate evolution of the Saiyan. Absorption, in a manner, is already the means to which to become an SSG. Bills said that Goku had absorbed some of the SSG power into himself, which was why his power didn't drop dramatically when he lost SSG. The Saiyans themselves are supposed to be considered limitless in power potential, always evolving after a fight. So perhaps their ultimate evolution isn't just some uber ultimate powerful form, but rather the limitless capacity to which that form will allow.
I definitely agree Goku was starting to show the real potential of SSG. Bills seemed surprised for the first time during that fight. I don't know about a new series, but absolutely bring on more SSG battles. They barely scratched the surface of the types of venues Gods could potentially fight in.
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Old 2013-09-24, 20:03   Link #832
amaterasu4
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Calling out others troll seems really inappropiate.

I think only one episode of GT did show the Super Saiyan 2 but for five seconds. It's when Goku fought that blue robot and changed his appearance to block an attack. I don't have an image though.
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Old 2013-09-24, 21:13   Link #833
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
And excuse me for not remembering every minute detail of a series that ended 10 freaking years ago and what aspects of it were filler and what wasn't. But just for your reference, no, he was not SSJ2 according to the anime: http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Bat...niverse_Begins

Check the images. No lightning aura. He had it when he initially powered up, but then throughout the fight he did not have it. Perhaps you're the one who "needs to get your eyes checked".
That wiki article states that Goku did power up to SSJ2. It's not uncommon for a SSJ2 to fight without an aura in the anime (and in the following episode when he did had the aura, the lightning was there). You can see the hair change after he powers up:

SSJ
SSJ2

And this is from the following episode where he shows Kid Buu the two forms in sequence ala Fat Buu:

SSJ
SSJ2

Aside from the hair change and the lighting aura, you can see a more fiercer expression in the latter form.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agBdfnBzrBI

This is where Goku shows the forms to Beers. The first is what he clearly uses against him in the final battle.
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Old 2013-09-27, 19:18   Link #834
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Come to think of it, Goku is SSJ1 when kills Buu too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9VeZF9oDGg

Maybe the writers think that's Goku at his best?
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Old 2013-09-27, 20:48   Link #835
Kyero Fox
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Basicly SSJ1 has some hair sticking down still, SSJ2 has more spikes.
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Old 2013-12-18, 06:56   Link #836
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Follow the leader", long live Dragonball",
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Old 2014-02-01, 11:22   Link #837
Kanon
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http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-entry-21624.html

Toriyama stated that if another DBZ movie is made, he would like Vegeta to be its main character.
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Old 2014-02-01, 12:55   Link #838
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Didn't Toriyama already sell his DBZ rights to Toei?
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Old 2014-02-01, 12:56   Link #839
kenjiharima
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-entry-21624.html

Toriyama stated that if another DBZ movie is made, he would like Vegeta to be its main character.
FUCK YEAH!!! Finally the he realized the prince of the Saiyan's is one of the characters making the big bucks! Awesome news, hopping for a SSJ3 or possibly a SSJ god Vegeta.
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Old 2014-02-01, 13:57   Link #840
Kanon
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Didn't Toriyama already sell his DBZ rights to Toei?
That's only his wish, not a request. Toei may or may not listen to him. They seem to value his input (he was involved quite a bit in Battle of Gods, wasn't he?) so this might come true.

I'd love for Vegeta to take the center of the stage.
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