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Old 2013-07-07, 09:55   Link #41
dniv
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Originally Posted by Lulu Vie Britania View Post
Even if you don't see, he was always trying to hurt them, cause them anger and fear, in other words, the emotions. We know that he was not completely sure in his mind that the clones were not humans. He conflicted himself because he didn't completely believed they were mere dolls. That's why he was trying to hurt them. Acting more and more cruelly. With words/actions. He tried to cause any reaction from them. Just remember what LO said later.
Ahahah, at least I mind he really said about her ass sincerely He was looking like little asshole liar while saying that That's why he made me laugh at that moment.
Um... wrong place for this comment. But yes. I agree. This should be moved to Railgun S for Index Viewers.

But yes, the first part of what you said is very true. I think he does appear to be conflicted about what is happening here. I understand now what you meant by that. I thought you were saying he was just being mean, not trying to evoke an emotional response. I agree with what you say in that case. That made it much more clear
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Old 2013-09-08, 15:24   Link #42
dniv
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This is moved from the railgun s episode 20 discussion thread. Let me clarify/expand on what Ilidsor/AdmirerofSatenRuiko are saying (even though I may be wrong).

The Sisters Arc was so popular that Mikoto became a well-liked character. So as a result they wanted to spin-off of Kuroko, but last minute changed it to one of Misaka. This became the railgun franchise. After some time, the show became very different from how it was originally envisioned as seen in the first season, but then it actually turned out that the author Kamachi considered the side-story to be of equal importance as the main story. At this point in time, the second season of Railgun talked about the sisters, the original reason "railgun" was conceived as a manga in the first place.

I will argue however that since I'm not positive the sisters arc existed when Railgun was originally adapted for its first season, it might not be the reason the anime exists for railgun, just the manga. So it can be argued that it isn't absolutely essential to the anime, but that if the anime wants to be a consistent adaptation to the manga then it should also include the sisters arc.

The problem arises from anime-only-viewers who want a continuation of themes from the first season and manga readers who want to have an anime of the series that they are reading. When creating the anime, J.C. staff has to cater to both of these groups because in the end, the anime is supposed to adapt the manga. However, all anime clearly have the interpretation of the directors inputted into them in at least some minor way so that the anime has its own original flavor. That's what is happening here.

With season one of the anime, the anime attracted a lot of fans that enjoyed the Director's way of interpreting the material in order to make the series more popular.

However, now the series has 2 completely different aspects and therefore relies on 2 different cours per season to compromise this problem.

In this case, it becomes unclear which way the series should be adapted, if it should actually rather be adapted one way over the other.

IMO, many will prefer one way over the other, but I think that this problem is clearly unresolveable so people are just going to keep on fighting about it which is why this argument isn't really productive at this point at all.

If railgun changes, its popularity will drop. If railgun does not change, it does not adapt the original material like it was supposed to. This makes the entire scenario very confusing.

And both groups in their opinions are technically in the right so this becomes a confusing problem.
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Old 2013-09-08, 15:30   Link #43
Ilidsor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dniv View Post
The Sisters Arc was so popular that Mikoto became a well-liked character. So as a result they wanted to spin-off of Kuroko, but last minute changed it to one of Misaka. This became the railgun franchise. After some time, the show became very different from how it was originally envisioned as seen in the first season, but then it actually turned out that the author Kamachi considered the side-story to be of equal importance as the main story. At this point in time, the second season of Railgun talked about the sisters, the original reason "railgun" was conceived as a manga in the first place.
When was this ever said? He's considered them canon sure, but when has he ever said he considers them of equal importance?

Quote:
I will argue however that since I'm not positive the sisters arc existed when Railgun was originally adapted for its first season, it might not be the reason the anime exists for railgun, just the manga. So it can be argued that it isn't absolutely essential to the anime, but that if the anime wants to be a consistent adaptation to the manga then it should also include the sisters arc.
...The sisters arc was the third story arc of the entire series. Of course it existed when Railgun was adapted. They didn't even release the Railgun manga until around when volume 12 came out iirc.

Look, I'm not trying to have an argument about which part of the series is the best or whatever I'm just pointed out that the Sisters arc cannot be skipped no matter which side you prefer because the events of it are so integral to future events, and Misaka's character.
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Old 2013-09-08, 22:02   Link #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilidsor View Post
When was this ever said? He's considered them canon sure, but when has he ever said he considers them of equal importance?



...The sisters arc was the third story arc of the entire series. Of course it existed when Railgun was adapted. They didn't even release the Railgun manga until around when volume 12 came out iirc.

Look, I'm not trying to have an argument about which part of the series is the best or whatever I'm just pointed out that the Sisters arc cannot be skipped no matter which side you prefer because the events of it are so integral to future events, and Misaka's character.
Sorry let me clarify. I meant if the Sisters arc existed in the railgun manga (not in Index) when the manga was adapted for railgun season 1. I wasn't trying to argue either I was just trying to point out some stuff.

As to the first thing you said, Kamachi never really said that (don't worry I'm not trying to argue with you ) however the fact that the accelerator manga, railgun manga, index-nichijou manga, and index manga all seem to be existent and kamachi is focusing on different things in each of these mangas, I just kind of assumed that Kamachi is using the normal index manga to adapt the LNs and everything else to add onto the story and to enhance the world. This is why I feel like he considers the other parts of the story just as important in terms of world-building, considering the magnitude of some of arcs we have seen in railgun already... like this silent party arc which seems to have some implications on later things in the franchise. (it doesn't have to bad though...)

Anyway, it's an opinion, but I think Kamachi doesn't think railgun is that silly anymore considering that he is using it to introduce characters very early on like ITEM and Shokuhou Misaki. But I digress and might be totally wrong as to how he feels about it (just putting that out there).

I'm not trying to argue, I was just trying to say what I had written above.
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Old 2013-09-08, 22:09   Link #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dniv View Post
Anyway, it's an opinion, but I think Kamachi doesn't think railgun is that silly anymore considering that he is using it to introduce characters very early on like ITEM and Shokuhou Misaki. But I digress and might be totally wrong as to how he feels about it (just putting that out there).
?

ITEM was introduced way earlier than Railgun.
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Old 2013-09-08, 22:10   Link #46
Ilidsor
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Originally Posted by dniv View Post
Sorry let me clarify. I meant if the Sisters arc existed in the railgun manga (not in Index) when the manga was adapted for railgun season 1. I wasn't trying to argue either I was just trying to point out some stuff.

As to the first thing you said, Kamachi never really said that (don't worry I'm not trying to argue with you ) however the fact that the accelerator manga, railgun manga, index-nichijou manga, and index manga all seem to be existent and kamachi is focusing on different things in each of these mangas, I just kind of assumed that Kamachi is using the normal index manga to adapt the LNs and everything else to add onto the story and to enhance the world. This is why I feel like he considers the other parts of the story just as important in terms of world-building, considering the magnitude of some of arcs we have seen in railgun already... like this silent party arc which seems to have some implications on later things in the franchise. (it doesn't have to bad though...)

Anyway, it's an opinion, but I think Kamachi doesn't think railgun is that silly anymore considering that he is using it to introduce characters very early on like ITEM and Shokuhou Misaki. But I digress and might be totally wrong as to how he feels about it (just putting that out there).

I'm not trying to argue, I was just trying to say what I had written above.
I'm sure he thinks of the Railgun manga like that, but I doubt that's how he considers the anime original SOL stuff. I doubt he's consulted for stuff like that, as those episodes aren't anything like his style.

Also as a side note ITEM was introduced in the Index LNs way before they appeared in the Railgun manga

EDIT: Last part was ninja'd
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Old 2013-09-08, 22:19   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Ilidsor View Post
I'm sure he thinks of the Railgun manga like that, but I doubt that's how he considers the anime original SOL stuff. I doubt he's consulted for stuff like that, as those episodes aren't anything like his style.

Also as a side note ITEM was introduced in the Index LNs way before they appeared in the Railgun manga

EDIT: Last part was ninja'd
I'm being totally unclear

I meant that ITEM was introduced pretty early on in the railgun manga. ITEM will probably appear much later in the Index manga (does that make sense?) What I'm saying is that ITEM was drawn in a manga for the first time in Railgun rather than Index. ITEM was also first animated in Railgun before Index. I see it as a way to provide more development for the characters and to get them animated earlier for him/fanbase/ everyone involved.

I meant Kamachi controls pretty well what goes in the manga, but as for the anime he can only provide a general outline of what to cover and then the interpretation of the people directing/producing it also goes into developing the work. It's annoying to me and you because Kamachi's representation of the world is being changed to match the interpretation of the animation staff, but Kamachi's interpretation is annoying to fans of railgun who watched it just because of the different interpretation of J.C. staff. That's kind of what I mean.

So I was agreeing with fallenhero, both of you have reasons to be right, but since I'm an LN reader I was leaning more strongly to how you feel about what you would hope/expect from an adaptation of railgun into anime. *sigh* I suck at explanations

I originally thought that Railgun was founded as a way to give good backstory to other less-well developed Index characters. But have since changed my mind slightly.
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Old 2013-09-28, 07:54   Link #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leukrota View Post
I see, well, I'm not using anything that can't be rationally concluded from the novels, so it's not fan wank. It's pretty much confirmed in later volumes, but it doesn't contradict the first ones.
It can't possibly be rationally concluded from the Sisters arc itself.

It's confirmed in later volumes that the Sisters plan was just a ruse but that wasn't intended to explain anything. It was just a twist added in. We were still meant to believe that stopping the experiment relied on an ambiguous plot device for two whole volumes.

Besides, there's nothing to suggest Crowley actually stopped the experiments then. He planned to make it fail all along but he only actually terminated it after the Three Stories arc, not in the Sisters arc. Touma was still the one who stopped it then (thanks to an ambiguous plot device).

And in any case it still doesn't matter. If you can wait two volumes for an answer then people have no right to bitch about plot holes they think have occurred before the story even ends.

Quote:
No it's not, they never said or did something to imply that.
And as I said before, the don't know why it stopped, only that it did. Their undisputable inhability to read minds is irrelevant.
It was their plan. They believed if Touma beat Accelerator, then the experiment would stop. And there's nothing to suggest that belief changed, so it does't need to be implied. It's what they believed and will continue to believe until otherwise stated. And it's confirmed in Volume 5 that Touma's plan was the reason it stopped.

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Though in the case I'm wrong and they did believe what you said, it's still not a plot hole, just the characters being naive.
Only if that's what's actually intended.

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News flash: Not all narratives require to disclose everything to the reader/viewer, or to spoon feed the conclusions.
No but yours does. It's a massive stretch.

Quote:
I honestly don't care about convincing you, as I'm convinced you have too much pride to ever make a concession.

I'll just explain my points as best as I can and let others judge if they agree or not... I'll stop when I find it meaningless to continue.
Well then I'll just explain it as best as I can. Read volume 5 again: Despite the experiment being mentioned very frequently, at no point does it say the experiment was stopped because Accelerator didn't want to continue it. And these are scenes when it would have naturally done so. In fact it clearly shows that the experiment was stopped because they need to look into the errors in the calculations. They gave an entire scene to it (Chapter 3 Part 1). Accelerator even stated that the experiment was only stalled.
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Old 2013-09-28, 08:05   Link #49
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As a veteran Raildex viewer, I cannot say anything else except Railgun is the definitive depiction of the Sisters arc. It was just done so well.
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Old 2013-09-28, 11:15   Link #50
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Excep the part about where the studio shows a bored Accelerator when the point was to show him sadistic on his expression.
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Old 2013-09-28, 18:16   Link #51
dniv
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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Excep the part about where the studio shows a bored Accelerator when the point was to show him sadistic on his expression.
THIS!!!! True.

Notice that is two sentences, not one sentence.

I felt like the Sisters arc was well-done but it had no extra scenes apart from the manga or LNs... I mean it literally had no longer battle scenes because the arc had to be condensed sadly. This made me at least somewhat disappointed. Though since I didn't consider STUDY as part of AC's darkness it wasn't actually a problem. STUDY-> AC Darkness as Amai-> Battle Royale (if you don't know what this is, ignore the comparison).

Anyway, this arc didn't ruin my impression of AC's darkness because there was only one actual character from the darkness other than Accelerator in this entire arc: Gensei
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