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Old 2013-09-28, 23:47   Link #1461
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I think I've come to the conclusion that this show really is just a fan service show in the end. .
That took you long enough!
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Old 2013-09-29, 11:11   Link #1462
musouka
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
(Seriously all good sports themed shows have great personal growth stories, but not this one)
Free has its faults (oh boy, does it ever!), but the only way I can think of anyone watching this and not thinking it was a a story of "personal growth" is if they didn't watch it at all. Literally the only cast member that didn't exhibit some sort of personal growth was Nagisa.

Haru started out practically mute, miserable, and taking the people around him (especially Makoto) for granted. By the end of the series, he was interacting with people, talking about his feelings, and smiling, and all of that was tied to his interactions with his teammates and Rin.

When the series first starting, hearing Makoto say a single thing about how he felt or what he wanted was like pulling teeth. Instead of interacting with Haru by expressing himself, he cajoled him into doing things by mentioning things Haru enjoyed, like bribing a small child with candy. By the time the series ended, we heard Makoto regularly able to express things that were important to him and connect to Haru through genuine emotion, not generalities like "I hope doing [blank] will make you happy, Haru!"

I think the series dropped the ball with how it handled Rei's development, but it's obvious we're supposed to look at him as someone who has grown to understand the people around him and help them just like they helped him so many times throughout the series, whether by saving his life or simply trying their best to help him learn how to swim.

Even Rin went through a lot as he struggled to get a clear picture of what exactly was making him so miserable and what to do about it. Exactly how much that struggle made you sympathize with him varies from viewer to viewer, of course, but there was obvious effort into portraying his mindset and progress through the series.

If you want to criticize Free on something, there are numerous, numerous things you could pick. Things that are the fault of your own inattentive viewing probably aren't among those ranks.
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Old 2013-09-29, 11:35   Link #1463
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I have to say, that's one of the strongest counterarguments I've read in a long time.

Well done, musouka!
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Old 2013-09-29, 12:07   Link #1464
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The only episodes that I wasn't too crazy about were the island training ones though it did give Makoto some backstory.

Otherwise, despite my dislike for Rin, I enjoyed this series very much...
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Old 2013-09-29, 12:14   Link #1465
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I rated this series a 7. While it wasn't the best series & the ending was far from perfect it was very far from the worst. It was a fun & relaxing series for the summer. Yes there was certainly fanservice (although the only time it made me cringe was when it focused on Rei in the speedo) but saying the only thing this series did was fanservice is ridiculous.

And no this is very far from the worst fanservice. Yes I realize most guys do not have the body proportions of the characters in Free! but this doesn't even come close to some of the fanservice of male oriented series where the women's breasts look like balloons.

Also yes as Musouka stated there was character development. Although I disagree about Rei. While he wasn't my favorite character I think he got the most positive development, followed probably by Haru.
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Old 2013-09-29, 12:31   Link #1466
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Fucking hell, people are STILL pissed off that this got made? It's a little late to be mad now

Quote:
And no this is very far from the worst fanservice. Yes I realize most guys do not have the body proportions of the characters in Free! but this doesn't even come close to some of the fanservice of male oriented series where the women's breasts look like balloons.
But....ITS GAY AND THEREFORE HORRIBLE AND WILL MAKE ME HOMO!
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Old 2013-09-29, 12:37   Link #1467
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
That took you long enough!
Hey, I can be slow on the uptake sometimes .

Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
If you want to criticize Free on something, there are numerous, numerous things you could pick. Things that are the fault of your own inattentive viewing probably aren't among those ranks.
It's nice to know that you actually read my post, but please check where I ever said that Free! doesn't have personal growth. I said it doesn't have great personal growth.

And yeah, IMO if you think Haru and Rin's big realization in the story that they like to swim with their friends counts as great personal growth, then we don't see eye to eye on this at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
And no this is very far from the worst fanservice. Yes I realize most guys do not have the body proportions of the characters in Free! but this doesn't even come close to some of the fanservice of male oriented series where the women's breasts look like balloons.
There are certainly worse out there, but Free! isn't exactly flattering. I don't give a pass to either.
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Old 2013-09-29, 12:45   Link #1468
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I honestly skipped through the last episode cuz I lost kinda interest to this series.
I did hope that it was more a sports anime but in the end it was more like fanservice + slice of life which isnt bad at all, guess the reason im dissapointed is cuz i watched really good sports animes like Hajime no Ippo and Initial D.
It could been any other sport, the focus was on the interactions of the characters.

The strong points were definitely the animation, the soundtrack, the VAs and the character development.

the weak points were the overly used fanservice (yeah I dont like fanservice if its placed all over the screen), the almost nonexisting focus on the sport itself, the slow pace ( though I gotta admit, ive seen even slower progress in anime) and putting support chars on the background like the biceps-fangirl, the pantsy fanboy of Rin, the gravur model adviser and the pizza boy.

All in all Ill give it a 6,5/10 for being entertaining and good characters but lack of the actual sport and no real goal of the guys since the relay looked like more of a side story instead of being their main goal.
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Old 2013-09-29, 12:50   Link #1469
musouka
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
And yeah, IMO if you think Haru and Rin's big realization in the story that they like to swim with their friends counts as great personal growth, then we don't see eye to eye on this at all.
Anything sounds stupid of you try to boil it down to its most basic premise. Haru and Rin didn't discover they "wanted to swim with their friends", "swim with your friends" was shorthand for "I need other people in my life." Haru started off proud of the fact that he felt entirely self-sufficient and didn't need anyone--again, ignoring that Makoto had been by his side for more than half his life--and, through nearly losing Makoto and seeing the lengths his friends were willing to go for him, started to respond and make connections to other people. He goes from a kid that can't even comfort a close friend when he's upset, to someone that can reach out and pull that same friend up when he's at his absolute lowest.

You say things like "all good sports themed shows have great personal growth stories" but then start quibbling about the meaning of "great" when you're called out on it. Why don't you try defining what makes a "great personal growth story in a sports series" to you so we can then figure out if Free actually fits that criteria.
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Old 2013-09-29, 12:54   Link #1470
Kirarakim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
There are certainly worse out there, but Free! isn't exactly flattering. I don't give a pass to either.
Do you go to all those series threads and bash them too?

I am not going to deny this series had fan service. That was obvious from the beginning (and considering the CM they did not try to hide it) but saying that is all the series was is just silly.
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Old 2013-09-29, 13:07   Link #1471
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
Anything sounds stupid of you try to boil it down to its most basic premise. Haru and Rin didn't discover they "wanted to swim with their friends", "swim with your friends" was shorthand for "I need other people in my life." Haru started off proud of the fact that he felt entirely self-sufficient and didn't need anyone--again, ignoring that Makoto had been by his side for more than half his life--and, through nearly losing Makoto and seeing the lengths his friends were willing to go for him, started to respond and make connections to other people. He goes from a kid that can't even comfort a close friend when he's upset, to someone that can reach out and pull that same friend up when he's at his absolute lowest.

You say things like "all good sports themed shows have great personal growth stories" but then start quibbling about the meaning of "great" when you're called out on it. Why don't you try defining what makes a "great personal growth story in a sports series" to you so we can then figure out if Free actually fits that criteria.
I'm not boiling it down, that's really all there is to it. Haru even says that in one of the episodes to Makoto. When I think of great personal growth stories in a sports series, the first thing that comes to mind is Cross Game (which you can hardly get better than that).

There's no use supplying with you any sort of definition because what's great to you isn't great to me. Like I said, IMO Free! doesn't have great personal growth. Rin is never compelled to change on his own, only with a continual and strong impetus from his friends (In fact, you could just say he simply reverted to how he was when he was a kid), Makoto and Nagisa are completely static, and Rei did have some but was shafted as a 5th wheel character. Haru's lone moment of growth was that he wanted to swim with his friends, and that's as simplistic and uninteresting a story that you could write. Lazy, safe, and tame. Don't like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Do you go to all those series threads and bash them too?

I am not going to deny this series had fan service. That was obvious from the beginning (and considering the CM they did not try to hide it) but saying that is all the series was is just silly.
If I actually bother to watch the series, why yes, yes I do. Particularly though if, like how I see it in this case, I cannot really see anything but a gimmick to tell a story.

Considering the story never made a serious effort to be a show about swimming itself, and that the characters were of the easy-bake variety, I can only assume the most cynical thing as the show's top priority over everything else.

EDIT: And to be clear here, I make the fan service more of an issue when the show is actively going out of its way to display its characters like sacks of meat to be oggled over.
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Old 2013-09-29, 13:10   Link #1472
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You know they are swimmers and therefore they're going to be topless most of the time....there was some fanservice but this show also kind of didn't take it too seriously.

But hey...THEY"RE ALL GUYS AND THEREFORE ITS BAD amirite? But if this was all girls, it would've been 'BEST SHOW OF THE YEAR'.
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Old 2013-09-29, 13:11   Link #1473
Kirarakim
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Considering the story never made a serious effort to be a show about swimming itself,
The show was certainly about swimming & there was plenty of it in the series. Although the main focus was on the friendship of the characters.

Not saying this was the best sports series (far from it for me) ever but it did focus on the sport in question.
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Old 2013-09-29, 13:16   Link #1474
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I don't really get the criticism that they didn't focus enough on the swimming aspect of it.

I mean, at least they did bring up some of the different styles of swimming (backstroke, butterfly, free, etc...). They talked about the importance of the initial dive, having a good entrance, having a good turn/kickoff.

No disrespect to people who follow the Michael Phelps of the world, but its swimming, how complicated can it be?

I mean, with something like baseball, there's all sorts of strategy in that (sacrifice bunt, hit for average, swing for the fences? play conservative or try to steal bases? intentionally walk this good hitter or try to strike him out? do I bring in a designated hitter now? is it time to switch pitchers? etc...).

But with swimming, I don't see where you can get all that complex with it.
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Old 2013-09-29, 13:20   Link #1475
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by GDiddy View Post
You know they are swimmers and therefore they're going to be topless most of the time....there was some fanservice but this show also kind of didn't take it too seriously.

But hey...THEY"RE ALL GUYS AND THEREFORE ITS BAD amirite? But if this was all girls, it would've been 'BEST SHOW OF THE YEAR'.
Honestly, if it the characters were girls, I probably would have hated it even more. It's bad enough that there are shows like Ro-Kyu-Bu! out there (Another sports show that's not really about the sport).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
The show was certainly about swimming & there was plenty of it in the series. Although the main focus was on the friendship of the characters.

Not saying this was the best sports series (far from it for me) ever but it did focus on the sport in question.
Yeah you just said it, the main focus was on the friendship of the characters. Reminds me of a certain other series, K-ON! that was never really about music either. Similar shows, and both are terrible IMO.
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Old 2013-09-29, 13:25   Link #1476
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... are you trying to say that Cross Game was about baseball?
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Old 2013-09-29, 13:28   Link #1477
Reckoner
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... are you trying to say that Cross Game was about baseball?
Is Chihayafuru about karuta?
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Old 2013-09-29, 14:17   Link #1478
GDiddy
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I don't really get the criticism that they didn't focus enough on the swimming aspect of it.

I mean, at least they did bring up some of the different styles of swimming (backstroke, butterfly, free, etc...). They talked about the importance of the initial dive, having a good entrance, having a good turn/kickoff.

No disrespect to people who follow the Michael Phelps of the world, but its swimming, how complicated can it be?

I mean, with something like baseball, there's all sorts of strategy in that (sacrifice bunt, hit for average, swing for the fences? play conservative or try to steal bases? intentionally walk this good hitter or try to strike him out? do I bring in a designated hitter now? is it time to switch pitchers? etc...).

But with swimming, I don't see where you can get all that complex with it.

Exactly!

Besides the whole finale was the club trying to get into some relay.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Honestly, if it the characters were girls, I probably would have hated it even more. It's bad enough that there are shows like Ro-Kyu-Bu! out there (Another sports show that's not really about the sport).
What's your thoughts on Kuroko's Basketball?

I've never seen it myself. So I"m generally curious.
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Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2013-09-29 at 22:05. Reason: Please use the "edit" button to add content to your post instead of double posting.
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Old 2013-09-29, 14:24   Link #1479
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Yeah you just said it, the main focus was on the friendship of the characters. Reminds me of a certain other series, K-ON! that was never really about music either. Similar shows, and both are terrible IMO.
Yeah I said the primary focus was on the friendship of the characters but there was still a strong secondary focus on swimming.

Trying to say there was not a focus on swimming is ridiculous when there was plenty of actual swimming in the show.

Now you said the main purpose of the show was "fanservice" which I disagree with even though yes the show had fanservice. I also don't see how god forbid having a show focus on friendship is a bad thing.
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Old 2013-09-29, 14:30   Link #1480
musouka
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
There's no use supplying with you any sort of definition because what's great to you isn't great to me. Like I said, IMO Free! doesn't have great personal growth. Rin is never compelled to change on his own, only with a continual and strong impetus from his friends (In fact, you could just say he simply reverted to how he was when he was a kid), Makoto and Nagisa are completely static, and Rei did have some but was shafted as a 5th wheel character. Haru's lone moment of growth was that he wanted to swim with his friends, and that's as simplistic and uninteresting a story that you could write. Lazy, safe, and tame. Don't like it.
Man, I just explained how Makoto wasn't a static character two posts ago. The only static character in the series is Nagisa, and that's because there wasn't anything wrong with him to begin with. (Though there are things that a hypothetical second season could do with him.) This is also the first time you've given any concrete criticism to the actual events of the show--namely, in regards to Rin. I actually agree that I would have liked to see stronger effort on his half when it came to meeting his friends halfway, but that doesn't mean he wasn't developed. (I also had my issues with said development, but that's a different kettle of fish.)

Free wasn't for you and that's fine, but it's better to be specific in why that's the case than speaking in gross generalities.
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