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Old 2013-10-03, 08:32   Link #261
Serphirs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I equate it to a filter that every KyoAni show gets put through - like a special lens on the camera that tints everything in a certain way. Moe girls and cute, harmless boys, comedically sexy teacher types, falling leaves and cherry blossoms. It's certainly evident in a show like Free!, which despite the radical (for KyoAni) departure of five male leads, ends up looking and sounding exactly like the prototypical Kyoto Animation series with an extra piece of anatomy.
This.

Weird that some people don't recognize that at this point. Their own style.

The other funny thing in this thread, is that sort of fictional criticism some people tends to do, in other words, criticism based on speculations.
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Old 2013-10-03, 08:55   Link #262
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It looks like a dejà vu.
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Old 2013-10-03, 09:43   Link #263
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I enjoyed the first episode. It was engaging, quick-paced, and pleasant to watch. The dialogue and narration was near/at a Haruhi/Hyouka level, which contributed a lot to how engaging it was. The visuals were nice and pretty.

These are the main elements that enable it to feel worth watching in spite of how incredibly cliche a lot of the tropes in this are. Yes, there are countless anime shows that use tropes like these, but at least the KyoAni polish makes Kyoukai no Kanata a cut or two above the vast majority of other anime shows like this one.

The action scenes were pretty good, but quick and semi-comedic. That's fine for a first episode, but I hope the action scenes become more elaborate and tense in future episodes.


Now, was I mind-blown? No, but then I wasn't expecting to be. I've learned to be cautious about anything heavily hyped in the anime world, because usually the show won't match the hype. However, this show is good, and I'm looking forward to more. Right now, I think the best way to sum up this show is...


Quote:
Originally Posted by RRW View Post
it's basically chunibyo except the delusional is real!

it will full narm and angst I can tell
Very nicely and succinctly said, RRW. Yes, "Chuunibyou except its actually real" fits this show almost perfectly. Heck, if if was my job to market this show, that's probably the tagline I'd use.

I definitely see how the two leads of Kyoukai no Kanata are like the two leads of Chuunibyou.


I also agree with what Guardian Enzo wrote here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I equate it to a filter that every KyoAni show gets put through - like a special lens on the camera that tints everything in a certain way. Moe girls and cute, harmless boys, comedically sexy teacher types, falling leaves and cherry blossoms.
Bingo. Kyoukai no Kanata is a KyoAni show that happens to have action scenes in it. That's all I expected it to be. I didn't expect it to be a wild divergence. So for those disappointed, I have to wonder what they thought the show would be. Ga-Rei Zero? Black Lagoon? Full Metal Alchemist?

KyoAni will never be that dark/gritty, guys. It's just not their style.


There's an old saying in the world of anime - "SHAFT being SHAFT".

Maybe it would be good if we also adopted the saying "KyoAni being KyoAni". At this juncture, you can tell "Yep, that's a KyoAni show!" just as easily as you can tell "Yep, that's a SHAFT show!".

This is neither an inherently good or bad thing. It simply is. Whether you like it or not will depend on your personal tastes. At least you know what to expect with KyoAni.

8/10 for Episode 1.
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Old 2013-10-03, 09:48   Link #264
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Some would argue that a studio being so consistently lacking in creative ambition is inherently a bad thing, but if you're a big fan of KyoAni's work - or one of their accountants - you'd obviously not be one of those people.

In truth, I think even SHAFT has more range than KyoAni. But it's the rare KyoAni series that breaks the mold - like Hyouka, even if it had to do it in subtle ways - that keep the non-fanboys like me hoping that we'll see more shows with the signature KyoAni production values, but a real sense of experimentation.
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Old 2013-10-03, 10:29   Link #265
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I think you might be watching the wrong show, and should stop posting about it immediately.
I maintain that this sort of content would appear in -any- similar show made today. You only notice it because it's KyoAni, and you can't stand anything they do. God knows why.
I don't recall Red Data Girl ever resorting to stupid, "Oh no, I'm a total klutz! Look, a bucket fell on my head and I don't understand why it's dark! Aren't I cute?" schtick, even though the MC was just as inept as Mirai.
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Old 2013-10-03, 10:36   Link #266
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
There's an old saying in the world of anime - "SHAFT being SHAFT".

Maybe it would be good if we also adopted the saying "KyoAni being KyoAni". At this juncture, you can tell "Yep, that's a KyoAni show!" just as easily as you can tell "Yep, that's a SHAFT show!".
I was about to say this as well. Yep if there's "Shaft being Shaft" at this point there should also be "Kyoani being Kyoani" cause this show reeks of being Kyoani.

Anyway... not that much to say about the whole thing yet. Well there are things that I find quite a bit absurd but I'll keep it to myself and wait for things to play out.

Animation is outstanding as usual for Kyoani but I can't say I like the style being used when it comes to action and I'm not too fond of the 2 main protagonists so far. That's all I have to say at this point.
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Old 2013-10-03, 10:52   Link #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
I don't recall Red Data Girl ever resorting to stupid, "Oh no, I'm a total klutz! Look, a bucket fell on my head and I don't understand why it's dark! Aren't I cute?" schtick, even though the MC was just as inept as Mirai.
Very nice observation - I've been thinking about why this episode didn't quite work for me, and I think you nailed a big problem. If the gag for this episode is "Chuunibyou except it's real", why is the reality that Mirai can cause some serious damage downplayed so much? Even if they'd been shooting for something more humourous than RDG, it's not like they couldn't have gone the blackly humourous route here - characters got badly mauled in Angel Beats and it was still played for laughs.

It's an unusual misstep for Kyoto, who normally just nails the little details that differentiate their shows from each other - just look at how they freshened up K-On in its second season, for example.
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Old 2013-10-03, 11:02   Link #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
I don't recall Red Data Girl ever resorting to stupid, "Oh no, I'm a total klutz! Look, a bucket fell on my head and I don't understand why it's dark! Aren't I cute?" schtick, even though the MC was just as inept as Mirai.
That's precisely one of the reasons that people who hate Kyoani, will continue to hating Kyoani. I'm pretty sure, the staff realized that the scene was "plain stupid", but hey, they used it anyway, just as they have done with their previous series and their previous derpy female MCs.
It's cliche stuff maybe, but it's part of their stamp, their style, their "lack of creativity" -according to some-, but let me tell you something...
Some people like it, yeah, really. If not, they -the studio I refer-, would've avoided it long ago.

pd: Sorry if there is something grammatically weird, I'm spanish guy doing the best I can to express myself assertively. xD
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Old 2013-10-03, 11:10   Link #269
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I went ahead and watched the episode last night, and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I enjoyed the first episode. It was engaging, quick-paced, and pleasant to watch. The dialogue and narration was near/at a Haruhi/Hyouka level, which contributed a lot to how engaging it was. The visuals were nice and pretty.

These are the main elements that enable it to feel worth watching in spite of how incredibly cliche a lot of the tropes in this are. Yes, there are countless anime shows that use tropes like these, but at least the KyoAni polish makes Kyoukai no Kanata a cut or two above the vast majority of other anime shows like this one.

Now, was I mind-blown? No, but then I wasn't expecting to be. I've learned to be cautious about anything heavily hyped in the anime world, because usually the show won't match the hype. However, this show is good, and I'm looking forward to more.

[snip]

Bingo. Kyoukai no Kanata is a KyoAni show that happens to have action scenes in it. That's all I expected it to be. I didn't expect it to be a wild divergence. So for those disappointed, I have to wonder what they thought the show would be. Ga-Rei Zero? Black Lagoon? Full Metal Alchemist?

KyoAni will never be that dark/gritty, guys. It's just not their style.
Yes, pretty much all of this is what I felt, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
But it's the rare KyoAni series that breaks the mold - like Hyouka, even if it had to do it in subtle ways - that keep the non-fanboys like me hoping that we'll see more shows with the signature KyoAni production values, but a real sense of experimentation.
This is the very reason I was so interested in this series to begin with.

I did not come into this with the impression that KyoAni was going to toss a bunch of what they're known for out the window. That would be naive. I felt that the plot seemed decent enough for KyoAni to put their own twist on it while possibly introducing one or two new elements that could give the show it's own flavor...

Kind of like how Chu2Byo or Hyouka were treated, which is why I enjoyed those shows a LOT, even though I'm not a KyoAni fangirl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
I don't recall Red Data Girl ever resorting to stupid, "Oh no, I'm a total klutz! Look, a bucket fell on my head and I don't understand why it's dark! Aren't I cute?" schtick, even though the MC was just as inept as Mirai.
This is actually my biggest problem with the episode at this point. It was... just too dumb for me to stand. I can handle Mirai not being aware of her surroundings unless she's in combat -- the whole "I'm clumsy at any time except during battle" thing is something I've grown to tolerate in anime over the years (plus, I now have some friends irl who were in the army and kind of fit that trope XD). But the bucket thing... Yeesh.

Not enough to make or break the series for me, but if that level of stupidity increases or becomes more frequent... It's going to be harder to ignore. I know it's a KyoAni thing and their fans like that stuff, but... I feel that it was justified in Chu2Byo. A lot of it is them just pretending to be inept, anyway. Here, Mirai was genuinely just being kinda stupid. =/ You can argue "being caught up in the moment" or it's just cutesy clumsiness, but eh... The comedy just seems a little strangely written right now.
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Old 2013-10-03, 11:14   Link #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serphirs View Post
That's precisely one of the reasons that people who hate Kyoani, will continue to hating Kyoani. I'm pretty sure, the staff realized that the scene was "plain stupid", but hey, they used it anyway, just as they have done with their previous series and their previous derpy female MCs.
It's cliche stuff maybe, but it's part of their stamp, their style, their "lack of creativity" -according to some-, but let me tell you something...
Some people like it, yeah, really. If not, they -the studio I refer-, would've avoided it long ago.

pd: Sorry if there is something grammatically weird, I'm spanish guy doing the best I can to express myself assertively. xD
I consider the derpy girl to be a moe archtype, not an element of KyoAni's style.

The execution here was just bad IMO - being derpy doesn't mean she can't also be dangerous, but that's played down even given that she can't actually kill him (again, the Angel Beats comparison).
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Old 2013-10-03, 11:31   Link #271
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That was some intense SM play in the first half
Who's the seiyuu for Akihito? He sounds newbish.
Overall nice start to the series with as expected good production value.
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Old 2013-10-03, 11:31   Link #272
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Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
I consider the derpy girl to be a moe archtype, not an element of KyoAni's style.

The execution here was just bad IMO - being derpy doesn't mean she can't also be dangerous, but that's played down even given that she can't actually kill him (again, the Angel Beats comparison).
Well, then, change that "derpy" to "moe archtype" in the sentence, I'm perfectly fine with that. Both serves the same purpose, perhaps mine was somewhat exaggerated -though was to make my point clear-, so go ahead.

I'm not saying that the scene was perfect, obviously could have been better handled in order to make clear that Mirai is the typical tender-silly character, but, I'm also saying that people who watch Kyoani shows are aware that those "extremely stupid" situations are behind every corner. Therefore, if they continuously add "that" to their destructive criticisms, that would be just masochistic. Better ignore it, or just avoid it.
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Old 2013-10-03, 11:35   Link #273
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Well the "derpy moe girl" is an archetype, but kyoani just happens to have a pretty infamous one with Yui, and to a lesser extent characters like Rikka.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serphirs View Post
I'm not saying that the scene was perfect, obviously could have been better handled in order to make clear that Mirai is the typical tender-silly character, but, I'm also saying that people who watch Kyoani shows are aware that those "extremely stupid" situations are behind every corner. Therefore, if they continuously add "that" to their destructive criticisms, that would be just masochistic. Better ignore it, or just avoid it.
Why should I have to ignore it? There have been Kyoani series that have avoided this stuff. I don't think Hyouka was over indulgent in the usual kyoani style, and part of the reason it really stands out from their catalog of shows in recent times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Yeah sure this is exactly like K-On or Tamaket, totally the exact same show, yup.
Honestly the main girl wouldn't seem out of place in a series like K-ON. Only difference is she is stabby stab stab, but don't worry, it's just a gag!
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Old 2013-10-03, 11:48   Link #274
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Why should I have to ignore it? There have been Kyoani series that have avoided this stuff. I don't think Hyouka was over indulgent in the usual kyoani style, and part of the reason it really stands out from their catalog of shows in recent times.
I don't have plenty of examples of similar situations right now, because my memory is fragile, but ultimately -and back to the same idea-, "ALL" the Kyoani series have in greater or lesser extent: Those kind of situations.
I think you're just overreacting with all the "bucket-in-the-head" thing. Just that.
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Old 2013-10-03, 11:50   Link #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Some would argue that a studio being so consistently lacking in creative ambition is inherently a bad thing, but if you're a big fan of KyoAni's work - or one of their accountants - you'd obviously not be one of those people.
There's pros and cons.

From an artistic perspective, it would be better if KyoAni had more creative ambition. You raise a valid point there.

But if you look at it from a consumer/customer perspective, it's good to have a brand name that you know exactly what you're going to get with them every time out. But to get this advantage, of course, you have to accept the brand for what it is.

I don't like being this blunt, but some people just need to stop getting their hopes up when it comes to KyoAni. For their own sake, more than anything. This is it, guys. This is KyoAni.

Hyouka was a bit of an exception because of the high quality and distinct nature of the source material. So unless KyoAni is adapting something significantly different from its standard fare (like, say, a book that's not a light novel) there's no reason to expect significant divergence from its usual style.


SHAFT likes its creepy/dramatic head-tilts, its art-house style set design, its minimalist character design (pancake faces), and its wildly eccentric visuals.

JC Staff pumps as much ecchi comedy and SoL as possible into everything it does (as evidenced by Shana and Raildex).

And KyoAni is about Key-style moe girls, mildly snarky but harmless guys, guys shouting loudly at key emotional points, falling leaves, and comedically sexy teacher types (so yeah, you pretty much nailed it Guardian Enzo).


Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
Very nice observation - I've been thinking about why this episode didn't quite work for me, and I think you nailed a big problem. If the gag for this episode is "Chuunibyou except it's real", why is the reality that Mirai can cause some serious damage downplayed so much?
I don't think it was. That opening scene made it crystal clear how dangerous she can be.

Mirai is a less mature Yomiko Readman of Read or Die fame. Total klutz most of the time, but fierce fighter when she gets serious.


Quote:
Even if they'd been shooting for something more humourous than RDG, it's not like they couldn't have gone the blackly humourous route here - characters got badly mauled in Angel Beats and it was still played for laughs.
Ugh, I'm glad they didn't do that. That bit in Angel Beats! was so ridiculous it almost turned me off from the show.

So while you see a misstep here, I think it was played better than it was in Angel Beats!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kismet-chan View Post

Yes, pretty much all of this is what I felt, too.
Good to see we're largely in agreement on this episode.
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Old 2013-10-03, 11:53   Link #276
DXMichael
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I didn't really like the first episode, it reminded me a lot of Chunibyo and I personally didn't find that anime all that great. It just didn't pull me in. They started the "This is how I met the female lead" with a 2 minute explanation instead of dedicating a proper amount of time towards it.

The female lead looks like she's going to be annoying the majority of the time and I get the feeling i'm going to be agreeing with the male leads opinions a lot of the time.
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Old 2013-10-03, 12:24   Link #277
Utsuro no Hako
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
There's pros and cons.

From an artistic perspective, it would be better if KyoAni had more creative ambition. You raise a valid point there.

But if you look at it from a consumer/customer perspective, it's good to have a brand name that you know exactly what you're going to get with them every time out. But to get this advantage, of course, you have to accept the brand for what it is.
So KyoAni is the ZEXCS of moe?

Except when ZEXCS decided to break their mold, they didn't load Suki-tte Ii Na Yo with a bunch of panty shots and trip-fall-grope jokes.
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Old 2013-10-03, 12:34   Link #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
So KyoAni is the ZEXCS of moe?
I've only watched five or six ZEXCS anime, so I wouldn't be able to say.

What is ZEXCS known for?
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Old 2013-10-03, 12:45   Link #279
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I've only watched five or six ZEXCS anime, so I wouldn't be able to say.

What is ZEXCS known for?
Well, if you watched "five" or "six" ZEXCS shows, and you didn't notice, then they must not have something for what they're known. xD

But, don't worry, I don't know what he refer either.
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Old 2013-10-03, 12:47   Link #280
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@Triple_R: the Angel Beats route may not be the solution, but there is a problem that Mirai's dojikko antics are just kind of flat. I don't have the same issue with Yumiko - or Yui and Rika for that matter. They're all colourful and fun.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
And KyoAni is about Key-style moe girls, mildly snarky but harmless guys, guys shouting loudly at key emotional points, falling leaves, and comedically sexy teacher types (so yeah, you pretty much nailed it Guardian Enzo).
And yet Yui isn't quite like Rika, who isn't quite like Kotomi, who isn't quite like Eru. What makes KyoAni great is how it deftly nails all of them - and I don't feel like it did so with Mirai here. The RDG comparison kind of made it snap into place for me: she feels like Izumiko, except not taken as seriously and with a much too thick layer of generic dojikko plastered on.

To me, the focus on a "KyoAni formula" distracts from the fact their stuff works because their execution is just that deft. And that deftness seems to be missing from this first episode, which is highly unusual from my perspective. On the plus side, the end of episode one suggests we're going to see some focus on Mirai's struggles soon, and I feel like KyoAni may execute a little better on that front.
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