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Old 2013-10-18, 21:57   Link #81
Flying Dagger
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Join Date: Dec 2003
I don't like exp systems based on how you approach a problem. I am actually fine if they do mission based exp.

Take Deus Ex for example, there is no reason to kill anyone simply because a silent melee takedown grants the most exp. This makes guns useless outside of boss fights.
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Old 2013-10-18, 23:29   Link #82
Wild Goose
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I wouldn't quite say that; guns are still useful in Human Revolution. Particularly in the Alice Garden Pods, where I used stealth and nonlethal takedowns and double takedowns to knock out the Belltower troops. I then arrange their bodies, and using my Zenith, dispatch the unconscious scum with a single bullet to the head, execution-style.
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Old 2013-10-19, 00:43   Link #83
Jazzrat
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The problem with deus ex is not about having exp system but how the exp is being rewarded. Optimal exp gain is through stealth so it promotes stealth play despite touting itself as a free form gameplay.

For Thief, it's key problem is lore and source material. The original Thief doesn't have an exp system and how well a player does is purely based on player skill. Plus Garrett was a master thief so unless the reboot set Garrett back from being the master thief, it's going to cause a bit of weird disconnect between gameplay and story.
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Old 2013-10-25, 06:56   Link #84
Mentar
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It's a good decision. I mean, when I replayed DXHR on the highest level, I made sure not to leave any alarm panel unhacked and any opponent standing. In other words, it promoted studid play for the sake of points.

*sigh*
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Old 2013-10-26, 11:33   Link #85
ArchmageXin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzrat View Post
The problem with deus ex is not about having exp system but how the exp is being rewarded. Optimal exp gain is through stealth so it promotes stealth play despite touting itself as a free form gameplay.

For Thief, it's key problem is lore and source material. The original Thief doesn't have an exp system and how well a player does is purely based on player skill. Plus Garrett was a master thief so unless the reboot set Garrett back from being the master thief, it's going to cause a bit of weird disconnect between gameplay and story.
Actually, just to play the Devil's Advocate, the original (and cult hit) Deux Ex actually feature an exp system. If you didn't have Exp in shooting for example, your target cursor would be HUGE and your shots could hit anywhere within the radius of the cursor.

Edit: I am more pissed of the fact Thief 4 apparently ask us to pre-purchase it 6 or 8? months before delivery. I don't think ANY video game tried to be that greedy before. It could be a sign of weakness that they know they are screwed.
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Old 2013-11-15, 08:22   Link #86
Firefly00
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Ubisoft has apparently been taking note of community feedback. The decision has been made to banish QTEs from the game altogether, as noted in this dev blog. Also therein is mention of how the difficulty can be modified.
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Old 2014-02-18, 19:04   Link #87
barcode120x
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A bit long if you wanna watch the whole thing, but the game looks much cleaner now. Looks like the devs had listened to the community about keeping the gameplay close to the originals and worked on that, of course with the new stuff in addiont.



Game comes out next week!
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Old 2014-02-19, 04:41   Link #88
Mr Hat and Clogs
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Wait, I thought they got rid of the XP system. Also, don't really like the "swoosh" sound like when he was lockpicking.
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Old 2014-02-24, 09:55   Link #89
Ak3mi
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Kotaku and PC gamer reviews are out, PC gamers review is a lot kinder then Kotaku, but generally game isn't good and is a mess with a bad AI. Ever since I heard they changed the voice actor It was a downfall for me. Oh well I might pick it up in the steam sale.
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Old 2014-02-24, 12:40   Link #90
Jazzrat
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It's average on the scoring for most publications so i'll probably get it anyway. Atleast it's not bad that everyone seems to think it will be.
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Old 2014-02-24, 16:19   Link #91
Ak3mi
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Yes thats true nothing as bad as Alien colonial marines...
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Old 2014-02-24, 16:28   Link #92
Kyero Fox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ak3mi View Post
Yes thats true nothing as bad as Alien colonial marines...
Oooh there are plenty hehe.



XDDDDDDDDDDDD
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Old 2014-03-04, 15:45   Link #93
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*sigh*

Out for several days, yet next to noone posts? Well, not like I couldn't understand it...

I'm still in the middle of the game/story, so I'll withhold my final verdict, but as a huge Thief fan of old, I can't help but feel that it won't remotely live up to my hopes. It does a couple of things nicely, but there are several glaring weaknesses which hurt my enjoyment.

1) Garrett feels "off". In the earlier games, he was always cynical, difficult and yet with a wry sense of humor. Indomitable, positive and rebellious even in the face of what seems impossible odds. However, in this game, he is completely subdued and darkly brooding and lamenting a past disaster. Even a bit whiny. Not a even a trace of humor. The opposite of his old self. Bluntly put, an unlikable bore. Likewise, the funny dialogues you've been overhearing in the earlier games have disappeared. Everything is dead serious. Meh.

2) Most of the city hub areas you explore are empty. If you break into a house through the window, there's almost never anyone around. Throw a party, nobody will hear, nobody will care. And for a city that is allegedly plagued and dirt poor, you find shiny blinking merchandise on every cupboard and house roofs. It just doesn't fit.

3) Sound propagation is total and utter crap. Where in the old Thief games you could always deduce from the sounds around you who/what was where, and especially when you had to be extra careful since something was obviously around, you now hear voices through walls and roofs as if they simply weren't there. On the other hand, in some scenes, the background music supersedes important Garrett self-dialogue, rendering it impossible to understand. A technical disaster.

4) You feel railroaded. You can immediately see where you are supposed to go. It's also immediately clear which spots you're supposed to swoop bit by bit. There is a grate where you can slam your pick in? You can be SURE that you need to go this way. And there's this beautiful white paint which makes it doubly obvious for you. Master thief? Hell no, a total gaming noob getting his hand held by mommy.

5) The puzzles alternate between "painfully retarded-unfair" (I only say "entering the safe combination") and trivial. I want to punch whoever came up with some of the ideas. Hard.

In summary: It doesn't FEEL like Thief. This is an entirely different universe with different characters and a different style. Now, to be fair, it's not like it's necessarily a BAD game. The graphics are pretty gorgeous. Sneaking still works decently. There are some good "chase" sequences which are quite exciting. It still feels like a real accomplishment when you manage to complete tasks and outwit your adversaries. I'd argue that players who are new to Thief will like it much more than old veterans of the franchise.

More when I'm through with the story.
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Old 2014-03-05, 04:58   Link #94
Ak3mi
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
Oooh there are plenty hehe.



XDDDDDDDDDDDD
Oh I watched that a few days ago, that is worse but on a whole new level.

I cancelled my thief order a few weeks ago, I will wait for steam summer sale.
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Old 2014-03-05, 05:28   Link #95
Dark Wing
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Well as someone who has never played a Thief game before I have to say I've enjoyed it so fare.

I dose feel like it could've used a little more padding in places. Like more optional missions to test our skills but knowing Square-Enix they'll probably sneak that into some grossly over priced DLC...
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Old 2014-03-05, 07:35   Link #96
Mentar
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Like I said, the game isn't BAD, and if you are not familiar with the Thief Universe and particularly Garrett, I would assume that it's really enjoyable. However, if you are a long-standing fan of the franchise and are ecstatic to finally get to see (be) Garrett again, his change into a boring brooding and barely likable humorless wooden caricature is nothing short of painful.

One more thing pissing me off: Compared to the series high tide games 1 and 2, the level size is nothing short of annoying. Goddamn system constraint that the game needs to run on Xbox360/PS3 kills the feeling of an open world. You cross 2 streets, and whee - load a new level. Meh. Seriously, game developers need to STOP this crap. Whoever remembers the glory of "Life at the Party" from Thief 2, where you cross an entire city for half an hour before you even REACH the huge Mechanist tower you need to work through, can only cry at the minimaps of Thief3/4.

Can't Eidos recruit a scriptwriter who actually knows something about the Thief franchise? Please? They did such a great job with the Deus Ex HR reload. Why couldn't they do the same with Thief?

*sigh*

If after playing through Thief 4 you think you enjoyed the game: Thief Gold And Thief 2 are available with patches which run the game in HD resolution. You might want to give it a try. For me, the game storyline and freedom inside the game makes it absolutely worth it.
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Old 2014-03-05, 09:19   Link #97
Kyral
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I knew it was a good idea to not buy it and wait for it to be available in a sale...

I personally wanted just a new Thief that played after Deadly Shadows (Yeah, I was one of the people who liked it).
Especially as I was interested what would happen to the street kid he pickes up at the end of DS, would fun to have her as a fluff character that is seen in his hideout, sweeping the floor or trying to pick the training locks.
I would have even be fine with NOT playing Garrett. Give me control over the now teenager street kid and Garrett show up as a mentor character...

But no, they pretty much discarded that as continuity and seem to made some strange... half continuity... with some nods towards the old Thief, like Hammerites and Pagans being mentioned as "old religions who are not really existent anymore" und stuff like that.

Well, I haven't played it.. so maybe I'm not really in a position to rant...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Whoever remembers the glory of "Life at the Party" from Thief 2, where you cross an entire city for half an hour before you even REACH the huge Mechanist tower you need to work through, can only cry at the minimaps of Thief3/4.
Ah, the fun moment when the two guard groups start bad mouth the other ones employer until they all get pissed and shoot arrows at each other.

And that golden kid...
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Old 2014-03-05, 09:31   Link #98
Mentar
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Ah, the fun moment when the two guard groups start bad mouth the other ones employer until they all get pissed and shoot arrows at each other.

And that golden kid...
Exactly! The bizarre humor displayed in these scenes, coupled with Garrett's wiseass cracks, created a certain special atmosphere which is completely missing in Thief 4. Here, you naturally still overhear many discussions, but they are somewhere between deadpan serious and evil-vicious. Nothing that would induce a smile or a chuckle. It is as if the scenario creator had never played a Thief game before.
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Old 2014-03-05, 12:57   Link #99
Dark Wing
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It is as if the scenario creator had never played a Thief game before.
Seeing how this is game has been developed by a completely different company that might be fairly accurate. It's same thing that happens to long running TV series when the original writers move on to other projects and the studio brings in some new guys with their own interpretation of how things should be. This often kills a series a good example is what happened with one of my favorite TV shows Married with Children so I can sympathies.
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Old 2014-03-25, 04:09   Link #100
Xenobane
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After the Deus Ex series, I went to Thief hoping for more stealth goodness... so far the 1st Thief was decent, but just hasn't aged well. I would have liked it much better when it would have just come out, I think. Ah well...

As for this newest one, I keep hearing bad things so I'm thinking I'll just stay away and look elsewhere. Ah well...
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