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Old 2013-10-19, 12:32   Link #181
relentlessflame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I also ask because I sometimes see people openly (outside of spoiler spaces) bring up a certain Madoka Magica character in pretty telling comparisons relating to that "every anime fan and their mother knows it" scene.
Please report these so they can be tagged (and if necessary warned/infracted). People should just use spoiler tags for all comparisons. It's not about whether the thing in the comparison is "really a spoiler or not", it's just the fact that you're bringing up another show that other people haven't watched. Our "Spoiler Policy" is really defined more by what is "on-topic" and, as it says, "Anything outside the scope of a topic is considered a spoiler." We specifically wrote it that way to avoid this sort of ambiguity. Any time you bring up another show at all (while in a different context), tag it.

Another recent example of this where I added spoiler tags was when people are discussing eroge adaptations, and they say something like "this show will follow the main heroine route unless this show goes for a twist ending, like <x show> and <y show>". People just say this casually as if everyone has watched those other shows and knows that the "main heroine" doesn't end up as the final romantic pairing. Now, if someone hasn't watched the show, you ruined the twist for them (even if you didn't say who the final pairing is, you've biased their viewing experience to watch for things). So this is another case where the entire comment should be tagged, referencing what show you'll be referring to, but without explaining why. Or, better yet, just avoid giving examples and people who have watched those shows can fill it in with their own experience. In some recent cases, I edited the posts by removing the examples, since the comment could stand without it.

So anyway, summary: all comparisons and references to other shows must be tagged, no matter what is being discussed, not based on whether it's a "spoiler" but based simply on it being a comparison to another show.
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Old 2013-10-20, 17:47   Link #182
Kanon
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Is it really necessary to tag comparisons that have absolutely no spoilers whatsoever? I just saw that in the Nagi no Asukara thread and was quite shocked. That's just an annoyance, not to mention misleading. Spoiler tags should only be used for actual spoilers when we're talking about other series. Learning a series has filler episodes and a slow moving plot isn't going to hurt anybody, on the contrary. It's a valuable information.
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Old 2013-10-20, 18:55   Link #183
relentlessflame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Is it really necessary to tag comparisons that have absolutely no spoilers whatsoever? I just saw that in the Nagi no Asukara thread and was quite shocked. That's just an annoyance, not to mention misleading. Spoiler tags should only be used for actual spoilers when we're talking about other series. Learning a series has filler episodes and a slow moving plot isn't going to hurt anybody, on the contrary. It's a valuable information.
Yes. That is what the spoiler policy has said for years.

Quote:
Anything outside the scope of a topic is considered a spoiler. [...]

Spoilers are permitted in limited circumstances, provided that they are posted under clearly marked spoiler tags. These exceptions include:
  • Comparing one story to another, when such comparisons are useful or informative. (These spoiler tags must always be labeled with the name of the other work whose spoilers it contains.)
You may think the comment is "innocuous", but even if the first post "doesn't contain any spoilers", it's quite likely that a reply that takes it further will get into it. The whole conversation is tagged so that the comparison is contained. If the person making the comment wants to clarify that the comparison doesn't reveal any important details, they should mention this in the spoiler tag label.

As I've mentioned to people before when this has come up, our site's definition of a "spoiler" is not the same as some other places you may go. The spoiler policy explains what our definition is. I'd encourage everyone to read it and not just assume they know what the staff here will deem a spoiler.
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Old 2013-12-19, 12:47   Link #184
ellessarr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKK
Ellessarr, your concerns are worth discussing, but not here in this thread where debate about the spoiler policy is off-topic. I suggest you post your questions in the Spoiler Policy Q&A thread where you can make your case and be on-topic as well.
ok since moderator asked here we go:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellessarr
Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny
What's more "lazy"? Not spending every waking moment ferreting out minutiae about a series that is likely not the only series you're following at the moment, or not highlighting a paragraph, hitting the Spoiler Tag button, and typing in a warning?

The reasonable assumption is that not everyone is going to immediately go digging for information about the series all over the internet. Yes, there are "casual viewers" of anime. Also, this forum is not an A-B conversation. People are joining and leaving all the time, and the ignorant noob (in the descriptive, not pejorative, sense) that registered an hour ago is just as much a part of the "conversation" as some guy that might have found and read leaked copies of the light novels on /a/ before they even came out in Japan. But even then, this thread is not about the light novels, so anything that hasn't been revealed in the anime yet (or may not even be revealed this series) is a spoiler. Just like casual watchers have a responsibility to either keep current with the anime or not complain when we don't wait for them, those who have learned about spoilers have the extra responsibility not to ruin it for everyone else. It's common courtesy.

If it's not yet in the anime, wrap it in spoiler quotes. If it's a link, at least warn about spoilers. It's that simple. End of story.
but my concern here is was the info was on the oficial anime site, and was just a character "background" info where anyone who can read/know japanese could read without any problem

is the same if in the sinopse of a movie or series or anime come and say character a lost his family but i anime not was showed ths. then we gonna consider spoiler???? will be proibited???

like i told if this was a info who indeed was leaked from futures chapters of the source(ln) then fine but a info who come with the anime then for me is not spoiler is just character background showed in the anime oficial site, what means who now will be denied post links from oficial animes sites???? because their can have info who for some peoples is not supposed to have" because their know more about the anime or the source than the oficial site?.
for sumarizing, for me what happened in the yuusha thread could not be considered spoiler, since was a info who come from oficial anime site(not ln or manga or whatever other source)

was a background character info who anyone who can read japanese could be acknowledge and just because animews translated the info just for peoples who can't understood japanese this dont means who was invalid spoiler

that info was a normal info who anyone could be aware before start to watch the anime

if everytime appear in a sinopse or background character a info(from the oficial source) who not appear in animr or not appear early will be against the rules then a lot of animes and thread could break this rule a long time ago.

i dont have problem when indeed peoples using references from others sources like the ln or manga to spoiler future chapters but "old news" who are supposed to be open knowledge, sound very wrong.

at last for me anime oficial site is part of the anime, their provide the info their thing is good to know for us before start to watch anime or when watch.

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-12-19 at 18:09. Reason: removed links
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Old 2013-12-19, 18:30   Link #185
relentlessflame
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I want to note first that I removed the tangent from the other thread.

The long and short answer is that our definition of a spoiler is different than what some people think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoiler Policy
Anything outside the scope of a topic is considered a spoiler. Check the thread's title and forum to determine what is allowed. For example, in an anime thread (e.g. threads in the Current Series forum), information from the manga, novels, or games would be considered a spoiler. In a thread about a specific episode of a show (in series-specific forums like the Naruto forum), information about future episodes would be considered a spoiler. In a thread about one show, information about a different show would be considered a spoiler (e.g. revealing Kanon's plot in a Clannad thread is a spoiler). So pay attention to the topic and forum. Restrict your discussion to the subject in question since anything else is a spoiler!

Exceptions:
Spoilers are permitted in limited circumstances, provided that they are posted under clearly marked spoiler tags. These exceptions include:
  • Posting and discussing content found on official sites or blogs.
  • Answering specific questions about past or current events using knowledge of the source material, so long as these questions will not be answered by the adaptation itself in the future. (We strongly encourage posters to discuss any spoilers via PM, rather than in the work's discussion thread.)
  • Comparing events in an adaptation to the way they were presented in the source material or other adaptations. (Discussions about the source material itself, or extended comparisons should be directed to the appropriate manga/novel/game thread.)
  • Comparing one story to another, when such comparisons are useful or informative. (These spoiler tags must always be labeled with the name of the other work whose spoilers it contains.)
Regardless of these exceptions, any comment that discloses an event, character, plot or other information before it is revealed within the specific work being discussed is expressly forbidden whether or not it is behind spoiler tags.
This means, among other things, that you can only reference content found on official sites or blogs (or similar sources) behind spoiler tags. If it didn't happen in the anime, it has to be tagged. If it hasn't happened in the anime yet, then it can't be posted at all.

The main reason for all this is that it's a simple distinction that you can apply globally without having to figure out on a case-by-case basis "Is this information the viewer is supposed to know coming into the show?" Everyone would draw a different line about how much research they think is reasonable for others to be told about, and it would be impossible for the moderators to make a decision unless they too are intimately familiar with the source material. So, instead, we made the rule as explained above, which revolves entirely around the "on-topic" principle. Anything that didn't happen in the anime is off-topic, but certain exceptions are made as long as they're tagged, which gives people the choice if they want to read the supplemental information or not.

So, although you may not think the information is a spoiler in this case, we still require that it be placed behind properly-labelled spoiler tags. The label should explain the purpose and context of the spoiler so that people can make an informed decision if they want this information or not. You could say for example:

Spoiler for Extra information found on the official site:

...and then people would see that and maybe they'll think "oh, if it's found on the official site, then I want to read it".

But if you compare to a different show, like:

Spoiler for Comparison to the ending of Evangelion 3.0 movie:

...someone might say "oh, I haven't watched that movie yet, so I don't want to open the tag right now".


So that's basically the principle of our tagging system. It allows people to make informed decisions about what out-of-anime information they want to read, and what they want to skip over.

(And obviously this does not trump the fact that anything that hasn't happened yet is forbidden no matter what, whether or not you use tags. This is because a) it's better-suited to the source thread (where the source is on-topic), and b) it prevents people from going on page-after-page of extended tangents about the source material in anime threads. If people want to talk about the source, they should go to the source thread.)
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