AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-10-21, 21:56   Link #31341
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
You guys should've stayed so. Then again, Yuan was shit and he should've died earlier. Kang Youwei could've saved the monarchy and also China from warlordism.
You serious?

My ancestors are the fine example of Chinese aristocracy. Backstabbing, switching sides then finally running when everything goes to a head.

At least the Koreans and Taiwanese duke it out in the house instead of buying men and horses to blow each other out of their territory. I don't remember any problem being fixed that way in favour of both sides.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-21, 23:11   Link #31342
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
Countries that retain their monarchy more often have better track record in economic and political development then those which had overthrown theirs. Look at UK, Sweden, or Japan. While countries like Brazil suffered a setback from overthrow of their monarchy which they haven't really recovered from until today. Ditto France. The benefit of having a pet monarchy to be adored by the populace has been often underestimated.

Retaining monarchy would've done wonders to China in the long run, provided the right man is doing it(in fact, only the right man could have). Kang Youwei was maybe a xenophobic asshole, but that couldn't be helped back then, and he was the most level headed and experienced figure around to keep the fragile ship from splintering apart.

Even I wouldn't mind so much living under the reign of Queen Beatrix provided we're Australia independent. We'll be the wagging tail anyway.
__________________
Ridwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-21, 23:15   Link #31343
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
Countries that retain their monarchy more often have better track record in economic and political development then those which had overthrown theirs. Look at UK, Sweden, or Japan. While countries like Brazil suffered a setback from overthrow of their monarchy which they haven't really recovered from until today. Ditto France. The benefit of having a pet monarchy to be adored by the populace has been often underestimated.

Retaining monarchy would've done wonders to China in the long run, provided the right man is doing it. Kang Youwei was maybe a xenophobic asshole, but that couldn't be helped back then, and he was the most level headed and experienced figure around.

Even I wouldn't mind so much living under the reign of Queen Beatrix provided we're Australia independent.
What about Nepal?
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-21, 23:21   Link #31344
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
They failed to change. And it's a minority case at any rate.
__________________
Ridwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-21, 23:44   Link #31345
ArchmageXin
Master of Coin
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
"track record in economic and political development then those which had overthrown theirs"

Can you define that?
__________________
ArchmageXin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-22, 00:07   Link #31346
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
"track record in economic and political development then those which had overthrown theirs"

Can you define that?
My head tells me that there is a stark difference between Western, Mideastern, Eastern and Asian monarchies. Given that China has always been a gigantic landmass like what Rome and the Ottoman is, their successes as an empire would have been based on CERTAIN factors.

Maybe that is the track record he is talking about.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-22, 00:20   Link #31347
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
Successful liberal democratic constitutional monarchies do require large middle class population. It's essential to not having its growth interrupted and setback. Frankly, for a large part an existing monarchy is just an indication of a longterm stability and continuity. But it also has important functions, too. Just ask Australia about what happened when they got a shut down back in '70s.
__________________
Ridwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-22, 00:35   Link #31348
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
Successful liberal democratic constitutional monarchies do require large middle class population. It's essential to not having its growth interrupted and setback. Frankly, for a large part an existing monarchy is just an indication of a longterm stability and continuity. But it also has important functions, too. Just ask Australia about what happened when they got a shut down back in '70s.
I don't remember the Medibank fiasco having anything to do with Queen Liz.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-22, 02:23   Link #31349
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
Only indirectly. The Governor General did the firing of the entire cabinet. He represented the queen nevertheless, and it shows how the system has a function even without the said queen giving a damn. And that's not counting the fundamental role of monarchy as the national rallying point. It's often underestimated how effective of a cushion it is in the face of possible political crises. In the end, people need something "pure" to look up when there's nothing else, and nothing beats the effectiveness and adaptability of a long-established (non-temporal) monarchy in this regard.
__________________
Ridwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-22, 04:59   Link #31350
Zakoo
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gensokyo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
Countries that retain their monarchy more often have better track record in economic and political development then those which had overthrown theirs. Look at UK, Sweden, or Japan. While countries like Brazil suffered a setback from overthrow of their monarchy which they haven't really recovered from until today. Ditto France. The benefit of having a pet monarchy to be adored by the populace has been often underestimated.
You are mixing everything in one pot, that doesn't work like that, Japan and UK have politicians equal as France in term of moral, and in term of economic, we will have to define each other what is having a "good record" so that we can argue, are you talking about unemployment rate? GDP? Debt level?

Above all, here is the best counter example : Spain.
Zakoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-22, 05:13   Link #31351
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Builders of Obama's health website saw red flags
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...10-22-04-32-05

Chris Christie gay marriage move stirs GOP
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...10-22-04-29-10
__________________

ganbaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-22, 08:06   Link #31352
mangamuscle
formerly ogon bat
 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Mexico
Age: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakoo View Post
Above all, here is the best counter example : Spain.
Since reimplementing their monarchy Spain has been growing not only economically but in all other aspects and the actual king helped avert a crisis that IMO was very similar to the actual crisis in Egypt (everybody feared another civil war when Franco died). The actual economical crisis is just a bump in the road and it is not limited to Spain (the whole Eurozone is in economical trouble, but Spain will probably be the first to restructure their economy and return to healthy growth in a few years down the road).

I understand that french people have been indoctrinated from a young age against the idea of a monarchy as an actual form of government, but IMO it is but constitutional monarchies are but another form of government.
mangamuscle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-22, 09:12   Link #31353
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
Absolute Monarchy I grant you, it's bad. Then again, usually it's in place in countries that don't have much in way of democratic tradition nor requirements for one. France certainly had it bad since it didn't go constitutional when the time called for it. It wasn't because its last king was a tyrant though. Rather, he was a wuss who didn't use the wave of social turmoil to bury the cancer that was French landed gentry, so he got swept instead.
__________________
Ridwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-22, 09:23   Link #31354
Bri
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
I understand that french people have been indoctrinated from a young age against the idea of a monarchy as an actual form of government, but IMO it is but constitutional monarchies are but another form of government.
Constitutional monarchies in Europe are simply parliamentary democracies with a more ornamental head of state. The monarchy itself has little or nothing to do with government. The main divide is between parliamentary and presidential systems. Even then political stability is often tied to the voting system, equal representation or first past the post.
Bri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-22, 09:57   Link #31355
willx
Nyaaan~~
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
Absolute Monarchy I grant you, it's bad. Then again, usually it's in place in countries that don't have much in way of democratic tradition nor requirements for one. France certainly had it bad since it didn't go constitutional when the time called for it. It wasn't because its last king was a tyrant though. Rather, he was a wuss who didn't use the wave of social turmoil to bury the cancer that was French landed gentry, so he got swept instead.
Alright, let's set up institutions to train ourselves some "Philosopher Kings" .. get at it!

Plato's Republic will rise!
__________________
Nyaaaan~~
willx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-22, 10:19   Link #31356
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
Alright, let's set up institutions to train ourselves some "Philosopher Kings" .. get at it!

Plato's Republic will rise!
Are you kidding me.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-22, 10:25   Link #31357
willx
Nyaaan~~
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Are you kidding me.
Philosopher kings are the rulers of Plato's Utopian Kallipolis. If his ideal city-state is to ever come into being, "philosophers [must] become kings…or those now called kings [must]…genuinely and adequately philosophize" (The Republic, 5.473d).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher_king

Criticism

Karl Popper blamed Plato for the rise of totalitarianism in the 20th century, seeing Plato's philosopher kings, with their dreams of 'social engineering' and 'idealism', as leading directly to Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler (via Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel and Karl Marx). In addition, Ayatollah Khomeini is said to have been inspired by the Platonic vision of the philosopher king while in Qum in the 1920s when he became interested in Islamic mysticism and Plato's Republic. As such, it has been speculated that he was inspired by Plato's philosopher king, and subsequently based elements of his Islamic Republic on it.
__________________
Nyaaaan~~
willx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-22, 10:25   Link #31358
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Are you kidding me.
Gay Fascism FTW !
__________________
Ridwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-22, 10:28   Link #31359
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
Philosopher kings are the rulers of Plato's Utopian Kallipolis. If his ideal city-state is to ever come into being, "philosophers [must] become kings…or those now called kings [must]…genuinely and adequately philosophize" (The Republic, 5.473d).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher_king

Criticism

Karl Popper blamed Plato for the rise of totalitarianism in the 20th century, seeing Plato's philosopher kings, with their dreams of 'social engineering' and 'idealism', as leading directly to Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler (via Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel and Karl Marx). In addition, Ayatollah Khomeini is said to have been inspired by the Platonic vision of the philosopher king while in Qum in the 1920s when he became interested in Islamic mysticism and Plato's Republic. As such, it has been speculated that he was inspired by Plato's philosopher king, and subsequently based elements of his Islamic Republic on it.
That is why I asked. The practicality of managing any economy or any diplomatic relations is none of that of a job for a philosopher. The world is too big for absolutes, and moves too fast to ponder on anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
Gay Fascism FTW !
Absolutely not.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-22, 10:37   Link #31360
willx
Nyaaan~~
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
Gay Fascism FTW !
Sure, why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
That is why I asked. The practicality of managing any economy or any diplomatic relations is none of that of a job for a philosopher. The world is too big for absolutes, and moves too fast to ponder on anything.
Wha-? Oh c'mon, we just need a more perfect despot and we'll be all good?



Town faces criticism after appointing municipal philosopher to offer weekly consultations and questioning residents' existence

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...?newsfeed=true
__________________
Nyaaaan~~
willx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
current affairs, discussion, international, news

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.