AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Log Horizon

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-10-26, 11:54   Link #801
aohige
( ಠ_ಠ)
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Who cares about the damage really, but the thorns binding duration being as long if not longer than cooldown is the clincher here. This means that Enchanter can kite any melee class FOREVER in a 1v1 scenario, and win against any of them due to a battle of attrition. That's damn hax OP skill there, even if you need another player to proc the big damage portion of the spell.
That all depends on where the threat produced from the thorn proc goes to.
If it goes to the enchanter, yeah. But if it goes to the teammate that activated the proc, then aggro would switch.
__________________
aohige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 11:54   Link #802
hamazura
Eugeo Fangay
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Inside Mugino's Pantsu *_*
ah btw, why the heck shiroe order dat loli to heal? that so fvkin useless tiny glimpse of heal -_-
__________________
hamazura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 11:58   Link #803
Breimoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamazura View Post
ah btw, why the heck shiroe order dat loli to heal? that so fvkin useless tiny glimpse of heal -_-
they needed to gain time and distract the enemy.Since she was healing the two of them they were focused only on the healed allies and understimated them since the heal sucked they were probably thinking of killing them fast and be done with it without caring about shiroe and serara
Breimoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 12:02   Link #804
darksassin
Is this dangerous??
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Unknown Void, M'sia
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamazura View Post
0.22 sec/attack? meh mr.cat you noob, my assassin-cross/sniper can do far far better
lv19 killing lv90? if only dat monk is a monster
Well Log horizon is a game turned reality. 10 hit combo for 2.2 seconds is quite high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandofFate View Post
I don't get why they had to stall for so long, why couldn't they do that combo attack of double thorn bind hostage right away.

Also, seems really OP. Only a 15sec cooldown for +5000damage when everyone at max level is about 10,000 or lower
This is just a speculation.
It was probably for moral factor. If they kill Demikas ASAP in the beginning the other brigands might want to avenge their leader + Shiroe and Nyanta might be accused of doubleteaming a single person.When Shiroe provoke Demikas away from other enemies they make sure he is far from Nao's Anchor's Howl AOE. The heals Shiroe asked Serara to do was probably to give illusion that they are desparate, or waiting for reinforcement. Castle of Stone was probably the signal for "finish him"

I find it very awesome that the DTP party ex-members understand each others without word, such as the before the battle when Shiroe asked Nyanta if he will fight Demikas 1 on 1 and he replied that the question is a foolish one. Quite a trust. And then the execution of the strategy with minimal word is just brilliant.

Akatsuki did what a "ninja" should do best: Acting independent from others. The enemies were quite stupid to group together their healers; an AOE can easily cripple them of healing. When Akatsuki PKed all of them, other enemies were probably shocked and wondered if there are more people that still hiding, and their moral shattered. It seemed that Akatsuki started to doubt herself though, wondering if she can perform better in the party.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
Because of other characters. They needed everyone else to be focused on Guardian, AND the monk to have all the debuff on from Nyancat to make the combo easier.

Also, it's not that OP if you consider higher lethality of characters in a pre-Wow game, as well as Higher HP of monster and Healing abilities.

The 5000 damage would have been relatively useless by itself.
Depends really. Lvl 90 monk(Demikas as example) should have ~15000 HP. that means 3 Thorn Bind Hostage is enough, and it seems the damages are pure type. It cannot be reduced by armor or buffs(except probably from Shaman-Kannagi's shell) So it is still quite powerful.
__________________
darksassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 12:08   Link #805
DragoonKain3
Osana-Najimi Shipper
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mt. Ordeals
I'd rather just say that Elder Tales players are dumb as bricks for not realizing an OP spell for what it is in a PvP setting (Enchanter's are rare in the world? Really?). I mean, it's no Smiter's Boon, but I bet Enchanter is not a one-trick pony, so I'm terrified what the rest of the kit can actually do.
__________________

Yes its YOU childhood friend - source of BERZERKER RAGE since forever
Childhood Friend couple STATISTICS(spoilers abound though)
DragoonKain3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 12:15   Link #806
tsunade666
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
I'd rather just say that Elder Tales players are dumb as bricks for not realizing an OP spell for what it is in a PvP setting (Enchanter's are rare in the world? Really?). I mean, it's no Smiter's Boon, but I bet Enchanter is not a one-trick pony, so I'm terrified what the rest of the kit can actually do.
I can't picture enchanter being useful in 1vs 1 but yap, its useful in guild wars or raids but I can also understand why enchanter is not popular. Every player has their own ego to boost and enchanter won't make you that scary. Its not useful in solo missions too which you can't use to brag that you solo this and solo that. For players that has ego and want fame. Enchanter won't be useful for them.
__________________

tsunade666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 12:19   Link #807
darksassin
Is this dangerous??
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Unknown Void, M'sia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breimoon View Post
they needed to gain time and distract the enemy.Since she was healing the two of them they were focused only on the healed allies and understimated them since the heal sucked they were probably thinking of killing them fast and be done with it without caring about shiroe and serara
Most of them cannot attack Serara and Shiroe anyway due to Nao's Anchor Howl, unless the buff wore off but I doubt it. from Ep 2, the buff last quite a bit. and even when Naotsugu cast Castle of Stone they still seemed that they were forced to attack him.
__________________
darksassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 12:21   Link #808
aohige
( ಠ_ಠ)
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johaocarl View Post
Both Nyanta and Shiroe are DTP, so they probably made that same move against a hundred of raid bosses. They know how to do it with the eyes closed.
The combination they used is not useful at all in raids.
The reason is, you're not pressing time to hit a HP quota of mere 10~20k within seconds, as raid bosses have millions of hitpoints. Through output of DPS is more important, not a burst damage within 1~2 seconds. Burst damage in raids (which is focused on short-term phases or near the end of rage timers) is a completely different concept.

The strategy Shiroe used is almost entirely a PvP tactic, where cap of HP is below 20k, and there are healers present to react and top off the HP.
Trust me, I know these things. I've raided hundreds of raid bosses (cleared content weekly) in WoW, and was an active GvG (guild vs guild pvp) officer for GW.

Likely back in the day, Shiroe and Nyanta (and perhaps other DTP members) had a reason to practice PvP tactics for various reasons.

Quote:
But you counted wrong, it is not 10 thorns were used, it was only 9 thorns, last one was used by Serara. So, it was 9000 damage from TBH and the damage from Nyanka 10 attack combo. However, the enemy was not full HP, so he was doomed anyway.
In the novel, Demikaus didn't survive the combo.
All 10 thorns were activated, and we didn't have Serara finish him off.

Changing topics, BTW, censorship issue for the episode:

In the novel Akatsuki does not finish off the mage, she holds him hostage for a bit.
After Demikaus dies, and Shiroe's party are leaving on the gryphon, Shiroe finishes off the mage by slitting his throat with a knife.

I guess that was just too much for NHK.
__________________
aohige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 12:22   Link #809
Drkz
( ゚∀゚)アハハ八八ノヽノヽノヽノ \ / \/
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: (◣_◢)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
I'd rather just say that Elder Tales players are dumb as bricks for not realizing an OP spell for what it is in a PvP setting (Enchanter's are rare in the world? Really?). I mean, it's no Smiter's Boon, but I bet Enchanter is not a one-trick pony, so I'm terrified what the rest of the kit can actually do.
Especially since its only raid gear, imagine if it was a legendary set of equipment !

Spoiler for Anyone watch roots?:
__________________
Drkz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 12:33   Link #810
Breimoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by darksassin View Post
Most of them cannot attack Serara and Shiroe anyway due to Nao's Anchor Howl, unless the buff wore off but I doubt it. from Ep 2, the buff last quite a bit. and even when Naotsugu cast Castle of Stone they still seemed that they were forced to attack him.
the ones who attacked them that time were people about lvl 83, while this time even if they received a lot of dmg they had least 4-5 healers to heal them before naotsugu managed to kill them off.Maybe there was even a shaman mixed in for all we know.
Breimoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 12:38   Link #811
Estavali
絶対・慢心・ダメ・にゃのです!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the Horizon
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johaocarl View Post
There is a good reason Akatsuki is basically O_O after see Nyanta and Shiroe working together, she see their level of skill is very superior.
She's also somewhat jealous that someone that they had just met up, be it an old friend of Shiroe, could pull off this sort of seamless teamwork. Something that she was not even confident of despite the amount of time she (and Naotsugu) had spent training with Shiroe.

It's like you and your girl/boyfriend meets an old friend of her/his (preferably of the gender that would attract your partner) and you find out that they are more in-sync with each other than s/he is with you


On the fight, I think a factor that contributed to Shiroe and team's success may be the Brigandia's over-confidence in their victory, despite the beating Demicus took from Nyanta. In most cases they do have the right to be complacent; more men, most of them with high levels and fighting on home ground. It's this over-confidence that led them to underestimate this tiny team of strangers, allowing them to lead them around by the nose. Had they been a bit more careful, with Demicus refusing to succumb to Nyanta and Shiroe's provocation and ordering instead an all-out attack, it's hard to say whether even the Scheming Glasses would be able to turn the tables on them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Drkz View Post
Especially since its only raid gear, imagine if it was a legendary set of equipment !

Spoiler for Anyone watch roots?:
We need more ominous men with spectacles here
__________________

Signature by liro
Estavali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 12:39   Link #812
Quol
That Guy
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Road of Life
I'm guessing all classes have an OP attack or spell that they can use, enchanters seems to be thorn bind hostage. On that note, is the finishing move that assassins have that assassinate skill, since akatsuki seems to always use it when killing something.
__________________
Mondaiji-Taichi
"I'm - just as the appearance suggests - uncivilized and savage, Sakamaki Izayoi. Vulgar, Brutal, and Hedonistic, all that I need to be a hopeless person,
so please follow the Rules of Use and Dosage Guidelines, when interacting with me."

Quol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 12:55   Link #813
darksassin
Is this dangerous??
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Unknown Void, M'sia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breimoon View Post
the ones who attacked them that time were people about lvl 83, while this time even if they received a lot of dmg they had least 4-5 healers to heal them before naotsugu managed to kill them off.Maybe there was even a shaman mixed in for all we know.
I was talking about Anchor howls' duration, not if Naotsugu can finish them off or not. Anchor Howl is a Provoke skill. Enemies were forced to attacked the person who used the skill, lest they will be hit by powerful counterattack. It seemed to last quite a long time if we consider Ep 2, or probably have shorter cooldown. It also looks like the counterattack will proc whenever the enemies changed target. The female thief on ep 2 just turned around and target Shiroe. She didnt even managed to land a hit on him when the counterattack proc.

So when Naotsugu cast Castle of Stone, Anchor Howl was probably still in effect. If it is not, WhyTH the enemies didnt attack a low-maxhp Enchanter, lower-maxhp druid, or even A Swashbuckler that has less-than-half hp left. Surely not because of chivalry, since they were ready to gang up on Nyanta earlier. So Anchor Howl should still be in effect, or else the Brigandia were really stupid to attack invulnerable Guardian.
__________________
darksassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 12:58   Link #814
HandofFate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
The combination they used is not useful at all in raids.
The reason is, you're not pressing time to hit a HP quota of mere 10~20k within seconds, as raid bosses have millions of hitpoints. Through output of DPS is more important, not a burst damage within 1~2 seconds. Burst damage in raids (which is focused on short-term phases or near the end of rage timers) is a completely different concept.

The strategy Shiroe used is almost entirely a PvP tactic, where cap of HP is below 20k, and there are healers present to react and top off the HP.
Trust me, I know these things. I've raided hundreds of raid bosses (cleared content weekly) in WoW, and was an active GvG (guild vs guild pvp) officer for GW.

Likely back in the day, Shiroe and Nyanta (and perhaps other DTP members) had a reason to practice PvP tactics for various reasons.


In the novel, Demikaus didn't survive the combo.
All 10 thorns were activated, and we didn't have Serara finish him off.

Changing topics, BTW, censorship issue for the episode:

In the novel Akatsuki does not finish off the mage, she holds him hostage for a bit.
After Demikaus dies, and Shiroe's party are leaving on the gryphon, Shiroe finishes off the mage by slitting his throat with a knife.

I guess that was just too much for NHK.
damn, that's cold!
Since it seems there's no translation picking the LN up yet, I'm really curious about any and all novel changes they did, censorwise or not.
__________________
...
HandofFate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 13:45   Link #815
Quol
That Guy
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Road of Life
The morals the main character's have regarding PvP reminds me of Godou from campione. Also i'm guessing next episode they finally get to taste real food.
__________________
Mondaiji-Taichi
"I'm - just as the appearance suggests - uncivilized and savage, Sakamaki Izayoi. Vulgar, Brutal, and Hedonistic, all that I need to be a hopeless person,
so please follow the Rules of Use and Dosage Guidelines, when interacting with me."

Quol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 13:59   Link #816
Breimoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by darksassin View Post
I was talking about Anchor howls' duration, not if Naotsugu can finish them off or not. Anchor Howl is a Provoke skill. Enemies were forced to attacked the person who used the skill, lest they will be hit by powerful counterattack. .
IT seems to be an one hit thing, if they have healers with them and especially shamans, and are lvl 90 instead of 82-83. Furthermore there are warrior class and not only rogue classes. I think a warrior class can at least stand one hit and as said before if they have a healer they don't need to worry about being finished off.
Breimoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 14:03   Link #817
tsunade666
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandofFate View Post
damn, that's cold!
Since it seems there's no translation picking the LN up yet, I'm really curious about any and all novel changes they did, censorwise or not.
He gutted the mage in front of the guild. Making them scared a lot more and emphasis that he is serious on his threat that the time of they going wild is over.

Its more like public execution because demiglass is dead after Nyanta's fight. In the novel Serara KS didn't happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quol View Post
The morals the main character's have regarding PvP reminds me of Godou from campione. Also i'm guessing next episode they finally get to taste real food.
What do you mean? Godou is actually pretty merciful that he didn't kill outright his opponent.
__________________

tsunade666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 14:15   Link #818
MartianMage
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: outer space
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
I'd rather just say that Elder Tales players are dumb as bricks for not realizing an OP spell for what it is in a PvP setting (Enchanter's are rare in the world? Really?). I mean, it's no Smiter's Boon, but I bet Enchanter is not a one-trick pony, so I'm terrified what the rest of the kit can actually do.
Well... there are tons of MMOs out there with terrible balance. Take for example Allods Online. Healers in that game... they heal the most, they do insane DPS, they get legendaries from piss easy bosses, they wear plate mail armors, 5 geared summoners(2nd most OP class in game) can't even take down 1 geared healer... it's crazy really and the healers in that game argue "it's good that allods online is trying to break away from the mold" yeah break away from the mold why not make a class called archer and give him all melee skills.
__________________
Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls's souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!
MartianMage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 14:16   Link #819
Quol
That Guy
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Road of Life
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
What do you mean? Godou is actually pretty merciful that he didn't kill outright his opponent.
I meant that they are both kinda pseudo-pacifists, and say they dont want trouble but can be pretty hardcore when they make up their minds. (But i guess you can say that about most MCs) Also rewatching this i'm kinda sad Akatsuki doesnt have many cute moments, but serara makes up for it
__________________
Mondaiji-Taichi
"I'm - just as the appearance suggests - uncivilized and savage, Sakamaki Izayoi. Vulgar, Brutal, and Hedonistic, all that I need to be a hopeless person,
so please follow the Rules of Use and Dosage Guidelines, when interacting with me."

Quol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-26, 14:35   Link #820
SinsI
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Ugh, why do they keep translating nickname Akiba as a full-fledged Akihabara?!
SinsI is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fantasy, nyanderful, science fiction, seinen, shounen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.