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Old 2013-10-26, 18:17   Link #541
MCAL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
It makes them inconsistent which is one of the biggest sins in adaptations.
But adaptions are called adaptions for a reason. Because they "adapt" material in a way that fits into another medium. That includes changing things around sometimes (But keeping somethings in) to suit the narrative better. Then that's just copy and paste. A VN and an anime are two different entities. There's the reason the movies of Air and Clannad are still good despite the limitations of a movie.

Again, I still fail to see what JC Staff has done that is both "ridiculous" and "stupid". Never mind Clannad, what about a majority of VN adaptions. Why is LB being put up to a completely different standard?

Last edited by MCAL; 2013-10-26 at 18:27.
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Old 2013-10-26, 19:05   Link #542
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by MCAL View Post
But adaptions are called adaptions for a reason. Because they "adapt" material in a way that fits into another medium. That includes changing things around sometimes (But keeping somethings in) to suit the narrative better. Then that's just copy and paste. A VN and an anime are two different entities. There's the reason the movies of Air and Clannad are still good despite the limitations of a movie.
We're talking about two different things, I'm not talking about changing the plot to fit the medium...I'm talking about being inconsistent in what they choose to change and not in the adaptation. If they are going to remove one important aspect from the anime then do so completely, don't remove it for most of the series but keep it for a single character FOR NO REASON. There is literally no good reason why they need to keep romance in Rin's route when they worked around the issue in the other routes.

Taking out the romance with every other girl except for one in a VN to anime adaptation makes sense (unless the anime wants to make a harem out of it).....when the VN actually does have a final girl, something that doesn't happen in LB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCAL View Post
Again, I still fail to see what JC Staff has done that is both "ridiculous" and "stupid". Never mind Clannad, what about a majority of VN adaptions. Why is LB being put up to a completely different standard?
It isn't....it's simply the current VN to Anime adaptation I'm viewing. Why do people think that those that complain about an adaption hold some unique standards for that series in particular? >_>
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Old 2013-10-26, 20:51   Link #543
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
We're talking about two different things, I'm not talking about changing the plot to fit the medium...I'm talking about being inconsistent in what they choose to change and not in the adaptation. If they are going to remove one important aspect from the anime then do so completely, don't remove it for most of the series but keep it for a single character FOR NO REASON. There is literally no good reason why they need to keep romance in Rin's route when they worked around the issue in the other routes.

Taking out the romance with every other girl except for one in a VN to anime adaptation makes sense (unless the anime wants to make a harem out of it).....when the VN actually does have a final girl, something that doesn't happen in LB.
Uh, what you can definitely have a final girl in an anime where it doesn't in the VN and be better for it (see Mashiroiro Symphony). Also, the reason to keep it for Rin is pretty obviously because it's THE lead up to Refrain. If there was no romance, the whole depressing scene at the end of Rin 2 where Riki is like well crap I'm powerless to help the person I "love," I NEED TO GET STRONGER, would be a lot weaker. Given that that's the premise of Refrain, I think it's kinda plot relevant for Riki to get "romantically" involved with Rin (despite how poorly it may be written).

You just come off as an extremely biased Kurugaya fan boy.
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Old 2013-10-26, 21:02   Link #544
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I don't even think you need the romance for Refrain anyway.
That said, Rin2 route require as much romance implication as Yuiko, otherwise, it won't work at all.

In fact, Rin's predicament in her own route wouldn't really be as effective if Rin and Riki aren't a couple.
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Old 2013-10-26, 21:21   Link #545
Randrak42
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Because the anime didn't magically work around the much needed romance in the other girl's stories right? Like Kud or Kurugaya...their routes were as much focused on their relationship with Riki and the anime still worked around it with LB friendship and all that. You mean to tell me that Kud's or Kurugaya's romance were not as important for their routes as Rin's is? They were, but the anime still worked around them while they decided to not do so in Rin's route for some reason. Rin's route wouldn't be as effective without them being a couple....very true..........however Kud's route for example suffered from the same thing and they still rolled with the no romance. Having the route suffer didn't really stop them from doing things that way anyway.

The connection between Riki and the original LB crew (Rin included) is already pretty strong and easy to see...Riki's actions could very well be due to his friendship to Rin and need to protect her like Masato and Kengo. Those two gave their life for Riki and Rin, along with taking on certain hard roles in the dream world, yet there's no indication that they had any romantic feelings toward them. You do not need to love someone romantically to want to protect them.

This is also the message you could get from the other girls' routes where the romance was replaced with friendship among the group.

Am I a "biased Kurugaya fanboy"? Well yea, never really denied that...but being biased toward one character doesn't stop me from seeing the injustice toward not only the character I love but others as well. It also doesn't stop me from noticing faults and certain stupid moves.
Everyone is biased in one way or another, if you dismiss someone by just saying "You're just biased" then you can do that for nearly everyone in every discussion/argument.
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Old 2013-10-26, 21:32   Link #546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
So keeping the romance for Rin and not the other girls IS a ridiculously stupid move.
You find it a stupid move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Clannad had a clear final girl...the whole of the main plot centered around her and their kid. LB on the other hand never had a final girl (unless you pick a certain option in Refrain), romance never played a big part in the overall plot of Refrain.
The main plot of LB centers around Riki and Rin. Although romance isn't necessary for the story to work, it does make sense to put romance in the anime. It makes the actions of Riki more personal/emotional.

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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Again, Rin is NOT the final girl (unless you pick her in one of the Refrain options)...there IS NO final girl in LB. This isn't Clannad where the main story is focused on the MC's relationship with a single girl.

It makes them inconsistent which is one of the biggest sins in adaptations.
People don't bash JC Staff because "Erp Derp I need something to bash lolz" but because they feel that JC Staff has done something wrong.

The problem isn't that they are being "faithful" to the VN...the problem is that they are only doing that for Rin AFTER changing the rest of the girls routes.
If you're going to take out the romance then fine...but do it for EVERY girl.
Who was it that decided that a show is inconsistent when the show doesn't show romance in every single route? So Riki can't date Rin, just because he wasn't able to date the other girls? So you're saying that they should just leave Riki's relationship with Rin out of the anime, just because Rin doesn't have to get a child with Riki for the story to work? Okay, that's your opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
If they are going to remove one important aspect from the anime then do so completely, don't remove it for most of the series but keep it for a single character FOR NO REASON. There is literally no good reason why they need to keep romance in Rin's route when they worked around the issue in the other routes.
JC Staff apparently decided to put romance in LB. Since they decided to go with a more linear approach in the anime (they are looping, but people remember things from the other loops), they couldn't let Riki date with everyone. So they decided to go with only Rin, which I find a logical move, since the other girls aren't there during Refrain and because the story is centered around Riki and Rin.

Anyways, choices always have to be made and they have made the choice to make Riki fall in love with Rin. It's their right to do so and you'll just have to deal with it. Some people would have whined if they put romance in every route or left out romance completely as well. They can't please everyone, since we're all different.
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Old 2013-10-26, 21:42   Link #547
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lol "There will be no alterations to the story"...

This episode was pretty rushed imo, but hopefully they can start getting their shit together for refrain.

Also...

I Don't know if you all know already but if you guys are fans/veterans of the visual novel, I'd highly recommend using RefrainSubs. We use translations mostly from the visual novel and stick closely to UTW's localization. Mainly i suggest making the switch before Cheap tricks comes around. I'd hate to see that translated as anything else. x.x

http://refrainsubs.wordpress.com/
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Old 2013-10-27, 14:56   Link #548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I don't even think you need the romance for Refrain anyway.
That said, Rin2 route require as much romance implication as Yuiko, otherwise, it won't work at all.

In fact, Rin's predicament in her own route wouldn't really be as effective if Rin and Riki aren't a couple.
Exactly this, so I have no idea why people are getting so upset. Rin is the main girl.
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Old 2013-10-28, 14:57   Link #549
MCAL
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Episode 7 - May the 13th
Episode 8 - Proof of the Strongest
Episode 9 - A Friend's Tears

Rin's route seemingly confirmed to end at episode 6. Now the question is how to fit the rest of Rin's arc in two episodes. Thought there's always a possibility part of Rin 2 will be in episode 7 and the other part the beginning of Refrain seeing as Refrain is mostly a direct continuation of Rin 2.
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Old 2013-10-28, 15:25   Link #550
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7 episodes seems perfect for Refrain (Thought 6 would be too few) so if this is true, I'm pretty happy. Rin's arc has a lot of unnecessary content (Particularly the scenes with riki/rin in the house). Right now they really need the following scenes:

1. The dying cat scene with Kyousuke telling Riki he's weak.
2. School Tour and resulting departure.
3. Riki challenging Kyousuke.
4. Rin breakdown at very end.

Though now that I think about it, these next couple episodes will have to be really well made to make it all fit. I wouldn't be surprised if they cut out the ED in one of the episodes.
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Old 2013-10-28, 19:16   Link #551
Deathscyther
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCAL View Post
Episode 7 - May the 13th
Episode 8 - Proof of the Strongest
Episode 9 - A Friend's Tears

Rin's route seemingly confirmed to end at episode 6. Now the question is how to fit the rest of Rin's arc in two episodes. Thought there's always a possibility part of Rin 2 will be in episode 7 and the other part the beginning of Refrain seeing as Refrain is mostly a direct continuation of Rin 2.
Hmm, episode 8 seems to focus on episode Masato. If this is true, then episode 7 will have to start with Refrain right away, since the introduction to Refrain will take at least one full episode. Most of the humour between Riki/Kengo/Masato will probably be cut out.

This means that the bad end will have to be at the end of episode 6. They'll have to rush certain parts if they want to get it done. Episode 5 will probably start with the school tour and end with Riki/Rin texting each other and Riki begging Kyousuke to get her back. Episode 6 will focus on Riki/Kengo vs Kyousuke/Masato match, Riki and Rin running away, Riki/Rin entering grandpa's home, bad end. Even if they cut most of the end of her route, it will still be very hard to get it done in two episodes.

Anyways, since episode 9 seems to be episode Kengo, we'll have 4 episodes for episode Kyousuke, last episode: little busters, 'good end', Riki/Rin going back into dream world, true end and the epilogue. It seems like the important scenes will get plenty of time. I have a feeling that they want to give the other girls a bit more time during Rin's dream and the epilogue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
7 episodes seems perfect for Refrain (Thought 6 would be too few) so if this is true, I'm pretty happy. Rin's arc has a lot of unnecessary content (Particularly the scenes with riki/rin in the house). Right now they really need the following scenes:

1. The dying cat scene with Kyousuke telling Riki he's weak.
2. School Tour and resulting departure.
3. Riki challenging Kyousuke.
4. Rin breakdown at very end.

Though now that I think about it, these next couple episodes will have to be really well made to make it all fit. I wouldn't be surprised if they cut out the ED in one of the episodes.
I think the dying cat scene happened before Riki and Rin entered a relationship, so they probably cut it out. I'm guessing that the cat scenes from grandpa's house will be cut out too. Poor cats.
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Old 2013-10-29, 00:08   Link #552
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I think the dying cat scene happened before Riki and Rin entered a relationship, so they probably cut it out. I'm guessing that the cat scenes from grandpa's house will be cut out too. Poor cats.
No I'm pretty sure it happens later on. They better not take it out. That part was more emotional than the girl's routes for me.
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Old 2013-10-29, 01:34   Link #553
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I think that scene may have been axed... Opened up the game to check where it was and it's actually right before the confession. It's still possible it could be included but... They only have two episodes to work with and I am not sure how that could included without disrupting the flow a little bit.

Next episode will probably end with the confrontation of Riki and Kyousuke in the courtyard. Episode after that will be about Riki challenging Kyousuke, and then may it ending with Riki failing to run away with Rin.

EDIT: Scanning through the arc, there's actually not a ton of material in it after all. I think they should be able to manage.
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Old 2013-10-29, 07:34   Link #554
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3 episodes for Rin is plenty enough, not a lot happens. Man I'm pumped...
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Old 2013-10-29, 22:45   Link #555
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I think that scene may have been axed... Opened up the game to check where it was and it's actually right before the confession. It's still possible it could be included but... They only have two episodes to work with and I am not sure how that could included without disrupting the flow a little bit.

Next episode will probably end with the confrontation of Riki and Kyousuke in the courtyard. Episode after that will be about Riki challenging Kyousuke, and then may it ending with Riki failing to run away with Rin.

EDIT: Scanning through the arc, there's actually not a ton of material in it after all. I think they should be able to manage.
I want to kill o_0......oh wait you think they could still add it in??? I hope they do Or, I will be one angry mofo
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Old 2013-10-30, 00:31   Link #556
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I want to kill o_0......oh wait you think they could still add it in??? I hope they do Or, I will be one angry mofo
Well there's always a possibility. If the next episode like I predicted ends at Riki discovering who is behind the "Secret of the World" letter, then it is possible to slip the Miles scene in there somewhere, but we'll see.
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Old 2013-11-01, 06:54   Link #557
Dark Faith
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Sorry I'm late for the discussion but I've only watched episode 3 this morning.
I admit that I never cared much for Kurugaya and as such I don't remember much of her route (nor do I have the completed game around anymore thanks to a nasty hdd crash on my laptop), but this episode's closing moments were pretty powerful and I was very surprised at the amount of foreshadowing that went into Kurugaya's speech.

Wonder if anime only viewers are able to put some pieces together by now... but if anything, this episode revitalized my hopes that this adaptation won't bomb (IMHO) as season 1 did.

Off to Rin's arc, huzzah!
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Old 2013-11-02, 13:47   Link #558
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Episode 5 was definitely an improvement over Episode 4, but I have a feeling that the hints/foreshadowing for Refrain are too strong...

Like the image of the overturned bus... I hope they slow down with the foreshadowing or else some of the impact will be lessened come Refrain.
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Old 2013-11-02, 13:49   Link #559
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When I was reading the respective part of the VN, I already suspected the bus accident actually happened. The VN wasn't terribly subtle about it either.
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Old 2013-11-02, 13:56   Link #560
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Yeah... I had already expected the bus accident happened too. Didn't make Refrain any less good however.
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