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Old 2013-11-04, 00:26   Link #381
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
So you mean to say that the prim and proper lady Natsume from episode 1 and 2 is actually the 'fake' personality all along?

Now that you mention it, current Natsume does act more like Hokuto. I've been under the impression that the 'natural' Natsume (I'm gonna avoid using 'real' and 'fake' now... too easily misunderstood I guess) was the ladylike acting one, but it's actually her bokuko self? Kinda weird that the rules imposed on her brought out her 'natural' personality, which is a huge departure from most other anime where rules tend to make another persona of that character, forcing them to hide their true nature. But hey, I buy it this time around.
I don't think that it's hard to accept that people are multifaceted creatures. The same is being shown with Natsume. One part of her is proper, the other side lets her hair down and the third side has to act like a boy. There is no "fake" or "natural" as they are all different aspects of her.
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Old 2013-11-04, 01:04   Link #382
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I largely liked Episode 4, but some elements of it remind me of Infinite Stratos Season 1 a bit more than I'd like it to...
So that one annoying girl is like Cecilia? This is going to be one of those "can't unsee" things isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
However, I'm fine with the Natsume/Hokuto situation. It's now very clear that Hokuto's personality was heavily, if not entirely, based on Natsume's real personality. Maybe the two aren't exactly one and the same, but current Natsume makes me think of Hokuto more than she does the Natsume of Episodes 1 or 2.

Personally, I find Natsume a generally cute and endearing character.
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I think that Natsume's Hokuto-personality is her "relaxed" personality. Her prim and proper lady personality is her "guarded" personality, used to test the waters with people/situations she's not entirely comfortable with yet. I don't think it's entirely fake, but it's her in a defensive position.

It's not that "rules", per se, bring out Natsume's "relaxed" personality. It's that being with people she trusts as friends, and being with her peers in a classroom setting, brings out her relaxed personality. That's my take anyway.
I don't agree that her ladylike personality is her guarded one. In fact, I think it's the personality she feels the most comfortable slipping into.
Hokuto gives her an outlet for the side of her that regrets her reserved tendencies. It gives her an opportunity to slip into another identity and be more outspoken.
And I think the boyish Natsume we see in Tokyo is actually the guarded and high strung one. She may act closer to Hokuto than the Natsume we saw earlier, but she does so for entirely different reasons.

I don't think any of the personalities is "true" Natsume. True Natsume is a conflicted and multi-faceted character - a shy girl who wishes she was more outgoing and who doesn't maintain her composure well when pressured. I do agree she's cute and endearing though.
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Old 2013-11-04, 01:43   Link #383
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
So that one annoying girl is like Cecilia? This is going to be one of those "can't unsee" things isn't it?
Definitely.

Spoiler for Infinite Stratos comparisons, implied spoilers:



Quote:
I don't agree that her ladylike personality is her guarded one. In fact, I think it's the personality she feels the most comfortable slipping into.
Hokuto gives her an outlet for the side of her that regrets her reserved tendencies. It gives her an opportunity to slip into another identity and be more outspoken.
And I think the boyish Natsume we see in Tokyo is actually the guarded and high strung one. She may act closer to Hokuto than the Natsume we saw earlier, but she does so for entirely different reasons.
What leads you to this conclusion?

I respect your opinion, but I think the opposite makes more sense. If Natsume wanted to get closer to Harutora through a sort of copy of herself, wouldn't she want that copy of herself to portray her most sincere and relaxed personality? If you wanted to truly connect to a person you have a crush on, wouldn't you want to show them "the real you"? I mean, this is the side of Natsume that became friends with Harutora and Touji.

What personality do you show to your closest friends? Your most relaxed self, or your more guarded self?
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Old 2013-11-04, 03:12   Link #384
0utf0xZer0
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Spoiler for Infinite Stratos comparisons, implied spoilers:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
What leads you to this conclusion?

I respect your opinion, but I think the opposite makes more sense. If Natsume wanted to get closer to Harutora through a sort of copy of herself, wouldn't she want that copy of herself to portray her most sincere and relaxed personality? If you wanted to truly connect to a person you have a crush on, wouldn't you want to show them "the real you"? I mean, this is the side of Natsume that became friends with Harutora and Touji.

What personality do you show to your closest friends? Your most relaxed self, or your more guarded self?
I think the description of her as being "guarded" may be causing some issues here. There are certainly things Natsume won't express as Natsume that she will express as Hokuto. "Hokuto" has broken out of her "shell" while Natsume has not. We witnessed the moment it happened: it happens when Harutora chases Hokuto around in a goofy matter, prior to that she's reserved even when she's in her Hokuto role.

But I don't think she's uncomfortable in her "lady" role. I think that comes naturally to her because she's shy. I do believe she's uncomfortable in her "boy" role - hence her statement that the traditions are a problem. I tend to think of her "boy" personality as her guarded one simple because of that tension.

Hokuto? Hokuto is only part of her real personality. Hokuto was who she wanted to be - like many shy girls, she wanted to be more outgoing. That she managed to be successful at it was a happy coincidence.

So to recap my view: Hokuto and "lady" Natsume are both aspects of her real personality, while "boy" Natsume is fake - though the frustrations she expresses as "boy" Natsume are very real.
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Old 2013-11-04, 03:32   Link #385
Znail
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Well, you can ususally break down peoples personality in three distinct areas.
Your official persona, the one how people expect you to be.
How you want to be, if your wishes came true.
How you really are inside, faults included.

I see the lady and boy parts as part of her official person and how she acts due to how people expect her to act.
Hokuto was how she wanted to be, by playing a role she managed to get rid of some of her issues.
How she really are is a shy girl in love.
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Old 2013-11-04, 17:07   Link #386
Iron Maw
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Man, the full OP is every bit as good as I expected. I've had on repeat for a good several hours now.

Can't wait for my copy to get here!
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Old 2013-11-04, 17:12   Link #387
Kleeyook
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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
Man, the full OP is every bit as good as I expected. I've had on repeat for a good several hours now.

Can't wait for my copy to get here!
Well, the TV version of Tokyo Ravens OP has the played count around 200 times. 1.5 min x 200 = 300 min = 5 hours. That's quite a lot for me too. Just get the full version on 3rd Nov. 1 min 30 sec is too short imo, hence the repeated.
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Old 2013-11-04, 17:24   Link #388
Iron Maw
~Undying Loyality~
 
 
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I know what you mean. I think have listened to the song at least 3 times a day since the show aired. Can't help myself FFFUUUU-

BTW, looks like someone finally did it:

NicoNico
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Fate/Zero one too.
YouTube
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Old 2013-11-05, 11:02   Link #389
MisaoFan
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Spoiler for Episode 5:
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Old 2013-11-05, 11:50   Link #390
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post


I think the description of her as being "guarded" may be causing some issues here. There are certainly things Natsume won't express as Natsume that she will express as Hokuto. "Hokuto" has broken out of her "shell" while Natsume has not. We witnessed the moment it happened: it happens when Harutora chases Hokuto around in a goofy matter, prior to that she's reserved even when she's in her Hokuto role.

But I don't think she's uncomfortable in her "lady" role. I think that comes naturally to her because she's shy. I do believe she's uncomfortable in her "boy" role - hence her statement that the traditions are a problem. I tend to think of her "boy" personality as her guarded one simple because of that tension.

Hokuto? Hokuto is only part of her real personality. Hokuto was who she wanted to be - like many shy girls, she wanted to be more outgoing. That she managed to be successful at it was a happy coincidence.

So to recap my view: Hokuto and "lady" Natsume are both aspects of her real personality, while "boy" Natsume is fake - though the frustrations she expresses as "boy" Natsume are very real.
I think I see what you're saying here. It does make a fair bit of sense.

One thing about "boy" Natsume - In Episode 4, I noticed that one of Natsume's classmates referred to her as "he" (at least that's what my subtitles had). This makes me wonder if Natsume's real gender is being hidden in this school. If so, that could add an interesting wrinkle to the conflict between Natsume and the bossy girl.
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Old 2013-11-05, 12:36   Link #391
Flower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I think I see what you're saying here. It does make a fair bit of sense.

One thing about "boy" Natsume - In Episode 4, I noticed that one of Natsume's classmates referred to her as "he" (at least that's what my subtitles had). This makes me wonder if Natsume's real gender is being hidden in this school. If so, that could add an interesting wrinkle to the conflict between Natsume and the bossy girl.
Yes - Natsume's gender is being hidden. Iirc that is what is making it so difficult for her is that the family tradition insists that the rep of the family be male, so in "public" Natsume must present herself as a male.
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Old 2013-11-05, 15:46   Link #392
Breimoon
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that villain was so....broken.....
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Old 2013-11-05, 15:57   Link #393
Ickarium
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I liked it well enough, though it was mostly setup for later plot arcs, I think.

I really wish there'd be less of Natsume-Tsundere-mode.

I also want to know just what this promise is, as apparently it was Harutora that made it. Something about a ribbon.
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Old 2013-11-05, 18:15   Link #394
HandofFate
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wait, so people actually think Natsume is a guy, and isn't just going along with the whole acting like a guy thing?

Cause Natsume isn't even binding her chest, small as it is, you can still see her mounds clearly...
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Old 2013-11-05, 18:53   Link #395
Quol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ickarium View Post
I liked it well enough, though it was mostly setup for later plot arcs, I think.

I really wish there'd be less of Natsume-Tsundere-mode.

I also want to know just what this promise is, as apparently it was Harutora that made it. Something about a ribbon.
Spoiler for Light Novel Spoiler?:
Also anime logic dictates that if a female wants to dress as a male only the most perceptive will notice.

Other than that did anyone else see the rock-paper-scissors after the credits between kon and the demon? Kon just got waaay better in my opinion
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Old 2013-11-05, 19:03   Link #396
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Well that felt rushed. But that's what happens when you adapted one LN into two episodes. The battle at the beginning was hardly necessary, no?
And let me get this straight. Harutora was too dense to figure out who "Hokuto" really was, but not to figure out the less obvious fact that Kuruhashi was making up with him to try to get to Natsume.
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Old 2013-11-05, 19:32   Link #397
Iron Maw
~Undying Loyality~
 
 
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ep 5

If you haven't read the LN/Manga then this episode was pretty solid. Once again, it covered a ton ground, in fact the entirely of Vol 2 was done here more or less. The staff had to make quite a lot of changes in terms of dialogue, scenes and timeline to get to that point but, most major points and developments were hit. Productions values and such were still very good.

As an adaptation however

Spoiler for Manga/LN comparsion:


There were two very important scenes missing from the aftermath of this event, but I suspect the staff with put them at beginning of next episode. Most likely in guise of a flashback.

Judging by next week's title, it looks like they are including the side stories, which is probably partly why this arc was basically crammed here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ickarium View Post

I really wish there'd be less of Natsume-Tsundere-mode.
Funny thing is, she really isn't a Tsundere. Natsume is mild at best in that area. Prior to this fight she was described by her classmates as being more distant towards people rather than "mean" a'la modern and classic Tsunderes. The one points of this arc was moving her past that. Hence her making amends with Kyouko.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HandofFate View Post
wait, so people actually think Natsume is a guy, and isn't just going along with the whole acting like a guy thing?

Cause Natsume isn't even binding her chest, small as it is, you can still see her mounds clearly...
She has them in the manga, you can blame the anime staff for that. That said, it's not huge deal eitherway especially given how traps are nowadays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCAL View Post
Well that felt rushed. But that's what happens when you adapted one LN into two episodes. The battle at the beginning was hardly necessary, no?
And let me get this straight. Harutora was too dense to figure out who "Hokuto" really was, but not to figure out the less obvious fact that Kuruhashi was making up with him to try to get to Natsume.
Because it's entirely due to how he views Natsume (who he considers to be fairly arrogant, a slave driver and someone too hang up on appearances and titles), but yes Harutora actually much more perspective than he let's on.

Last edited by Iron Maw; 2013-11-05 at 22:23.
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Old 2013-11-05, 19:36   Link #398
Jerseykid
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that was some epic anti climaticness when it ended at the broken sword.
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Old 2013-11-05, 21:17   Link #399
AC-Phoenix
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I wonder ´how that girl's feelings will change once she realized how she actually made that promise with Harutora(as seen in his memory) lol
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Last edited by AC-Phoenix; 2013-11-05 at 22:32.
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Old 2013-11-05, 21:24   Link #400
Marcus H.
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Jan-ken-chomp!

Quote:
I wonder ´how that girl's feelings will change once she realized how she actually made that Promise with Harutora(as seen in his memory) lol
That's gonna be chaos. She'll realize that she has been lezzing out on Natsume and she should have been targeting Bakatora instead.
But hey, lezzing out is not that bad, actually.
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