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Old 2013-11-04, 18:00   Link #1181
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Johaocarl View Post
But there is a lot more PoL than Adventurers....
That's what AoE spells are for.
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Old 2013-11-04, 18:59   Link #1182
JediNight
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Don't feel like getting into the argument over game physics, experimentation, etc. But I will put this comment out there:

Historically, a community needs stability socially and with basic necessities, before experimentation/research type things happen beyond day-to-day needs. Akiba is certainly far from stable atm, many people are just trying to earn enough gold just to stay at the inn and afford "soggy crackers" as it were. To say nothing of apparently, the large number of lowbies being exploited. (It's also been less than a month)

And maybe most importantly: People are slow to leave behind the mindset of treating the world as a game. Although with Minori's comments about sewing all day, it seems like even in Akiba, people are catching on to how the crafting system works. Also, they may have tried as Shiroe did, but had either no cooking skill or too low of cooking skill unknowingly. Very thorough scientific methods aren't something I would expect out of the average person. Especially when communication is rather limited atm.

It's also important to keep in mind that a story is always going to have a narrow focus. Just because you haven't heard about things yet, doesn't mean they won't or aren't already happening in other areas the main characters aren't aware of yet.

[snip]

Last edited by monir; 2013-11-05 at 03:24.
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Old 2013-11-04, 19:06   Link #1183
darksassin
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I don't know where you got that I was comparing to anything.

Or how "people want to go home" isn't a natural assumption, under the circumstances. It's the theme of the Odysseus. it's freaking old.

Oh, and do you think people weren't talking meta- when SAO came out?
At least Odysseus had an inkling, or knew that he can go home, its just that his home was very far away, not totally unknown
In LogHora the players literally didnt knew where they were, or even any speck of clue that they were able to go back to the old world, or how did they even got there. So yeah, they are not the same
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Old 2013-11-04, 19:20   Link #1184
erneiz_hyde
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From all of these discussion, something came up to mind.

At this point, it doesn't matter whether the world is currently a supremely sophisticated simulation or alternate world because at the current technological point, they are both equally magical.

Now the question is, if this magic can simulate the effects of light, gravity, etc etc, for what purpose do they not simulate taste in pre-made food? I really don't get why these pre-made food have to be tasteless. It shouldn't be that hard to do, especially as we know that raw ingredients actually taste something.

If anything, I can only think of a meta narrative reason which is to provide some problem to solve to help the story goes on. But I can't help but feel it's an artificial problem, as opposed to naturally occurring in a narrative.
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Old 2013-11-04, 19:40   Link #1185
Quol
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From an in-world perspective, we dont know enough about how this world works to make a good guess, for all we know the elder tales game linked two different dimensions together via MMO and after a while the players who updated to nova sphere got teleported to that world.

But from a story perspective, yea it seems the tasteless food was the trigger added to help revive the community.
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Old 2013-11-04, 19:47   Link #1186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quol View Post
From an in-world perspective, we dont know enough about how this world works to make a good guess, for all we know the elder tales game linked two different dimensions together via MMO and after a while the players who updated to nova sphere got teleported to that world.

But from a story perspective, yea it seems the tasteless food was the trigger added to help revive the community.
it is not just those update, everyone in the world who was login to the game was transported. Japan was just the first country to get the expansion.
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Old 2013-11-04, 19:53   Link #1187
darksassin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
From all of these discussion, something came up to mind.

At this point, it doesn't matter whether the world is currently a supremely sophisticated simulation or alternate world because at the current technological point, they are both equally magical.

Now the question is, if this magic can simulate the effects of light, gravity, etc etc, for what purpose do they not simulate taste in pre-made food? I really don't get why these pre-made food have to be tasteless. It shouldn't be that hard to do, especially as we know that raw ingredients actually taste something.

If anything, I can only think of a meta narrative reason which is to provide some problem to solve to help the story goes on. But I can't help but feel it's an artificial problem, as opposed to naturally occurring in a narrative.
Speculation time.
I got this impression that the New World is an alternate reality that has both game laws and laws of reality. Somehow the Elder Tale game imposed the game law to that reality. That might cause the ingame made food to be tasteless, since in-game, foods probably only serve as hunger-stat reducing or hp/mana recovery items(ie. the game's laws doent provide taste since it was unnecessary in-game). To make food with taste you need to use laws of reality, in other word, cooking manually like in real world . So, A dish need to obey both laws to be made successfully; "reality" for the properties of the food such as taste and texture, and "game" to determine whether the dish succesfully prepared or not

And both laws probably affect everything else such as combat or environment.

Well, this is a speculation anyway
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Old 2013-11-04, 19:55   Link #1188
Tenzen12
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And what if there aren't any answers, no way out and everyone will forced live here forever.

I would be fine with that.
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Old 2013-11-04, 20:19   Link #1189
Quol
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
And what if there aren't any answers, no way out and everyone will forced live here forever.

I would be fine with that.
Same while contacting the outside is important in its own way having them in this world would be fine with me.
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Old 2013-11-04, 20:27   Link #1190
blackwhite67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darksassin View Post
Speculation time.
I got this impression that the New World is an alternate reality that has both game laws and laws of reality. Somehow the Elder Tale game imposed the game law to that reality. That might cause the ingame made food to be tasteless, since in-game, foods probably only serve as hunger-stat reducing or hp/mana recovery items(ie. the game's laws doent provide taste since it was unnecessary in-game). To make food with taste you need to use laws of reality, in other word, cooking manually like in real world . So, A dish need to obey both laws to be made successfully; "reality" for the properties of the food such as taste and texture, and "game" to determine whether the dish succesfully prepared or not

And both laws probably affect everything else such as combat or environment.

Well, this is a speculation anyway
In the first manga chapter scanlated so far, it showed Shiroe sitting in front of his computer and when the clock strike midnight he's gone. So their original world still exists.
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Old 2013-11-04, 20:41   Link #1191
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darksassin View Post
Speculation time.
I got this impression that the New World is an alternate reality that has both game laws and laws of reality. Somehow the Elder Tale game imposed the game law to that reality. That might cause the ingame made food to be tasteless, since in-game, foods probably only serve as hunger-stat reducing or hp/mana recovery items(ie. the game's laws doent provide taste since it was unnecessary in-game). To make food with taste you need to use laws of reality, in other word, cooking manually like in real world . So, A dish need to obey both laws to be made successfully; "reality" for the properties of the food such as taste and texture, and "game" to determine whether the dish succesfully prepared or not
Interesting theory, so there are real world laws and game laws.

But let's look again to the ball of light Shiroe cast a couple episodes ago. That ball of light actually follows physical laws about light. The game never intended that ball to have any disorienting effects, but it became so by itself because the world become real. Virtually everything else have gained some sort of innate characteristics that the game never built in because the world became real. Everything else but vending food. Weird.
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Old 2013-11-04, 20:54   Link #1192
tsunade666
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Maybe because the food made from item menu doesn't follo the law of that world. They might use the knowledge of the game to live in the alien world but that is not enough because that world also has their own set of world.they need to follow it to too.
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Old 2013-11-04, 21:21   Link #1193
darksassin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
In the first manga chapter scanlated so far, it showed Shiroe sitting in front of his computer and when the clock strike midnight he's gone. So their original world still exists.
I did say my theory is about alternate reality. I might be wrong and they were really inside an extremely made vr that somehow managed to suck all the players into it. That is why I said it was a speculation
Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Interesting theory, so there are real world laws and game laws.

But let's look again to the ball of light Shiroe cast a couple episodes ago. That ball of light actually follows physical laws about light. The game never intended that ball to have any disorienting effects, but it became so by itself because the world become real. Virtually everything else have gained some sort of innate characteristics that the game never built in because the world became real. Everything else but vending food. Weird.
In my theory, that is still plausible. In-game, the ball of light is, well, a ball that is giving light. So in this alternate world, that ball of light would still be bright(game) and that light will prevent someone from seeing clearly in the dark(reality)
For the food, there is probably no way for the taste to be in the game. In the game, if the food gives out light, it would probably also gives out light in the new reality, but since the taste cannot exist in-game, the food prepared using in game menu would be tasteless. but ingredients still have taste probably because it doesnt go through ingame menu solely
For npc unable to make food that have taste, I can think of 2 possible reason
1.Npc use solely ingame menu
2. Npc has no chef subclass, they can only do premade food
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Old 2013-11-04, 21:21   Link #1194
blackwhite67
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Originally Posted by darksassin View Post
I did say my theory is about alternate reality. I might be wrong and they were really inside an extremely made vr that somehow managed to suck all the players into it. That is why I said it was a speculation

In my theory, that is still plausible. In-game, the ball of light is, well, a ball that is giving light. So in this alternate world, that ball of light would still be bright(game) and that light will prevent someone from seeing clearly in the dark(reality)
For the food, there is probably no way for the taste to be in the game. In the game, if the food gives out light, it would probably also gives out light in the new reality, but since the taste cannot exist in-game, the food prepared using in game menu would be tasteless. but ingredients still have taste probably because it doesnt go through ingame menu solely
For npc unable to make food that have taste, I can think of 2 possible reason
1.Npc use solely ingame menu
2. Npc has no chef subclass, they can only do premade food
I know. I was just supporting it.
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Old 2013-11-04, 21:27   Link #1195
darksassin
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Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
I know. I was just supporting it.
Ah, sorry about that then
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Old 2013-11-04, 21:38   Link #1196
Quol
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I think that we might be looking at this incorrectly, rather than saying that food was not programmed to have taste it could also be safe to assume that maybe the taste of food was taken out when using the menu to prepare food and only a chief could bring back the taste.
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Old 2013-11-04, 21:46   Link #1197
erneiz_hyde
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Originally Posted by Quol View Post
I think that we might be looking at this incorrectly, rather than saying that food was not programmed to have taste it could also be safe to assume that maybe the taste of food was taken out when using the menu to prepare food and only a chief could bring back the taste.
One way or the other, I didn't get why it has to be that way. Whether there was an ulterior motive or reason in-universe why those foods have to be tasteless, that's my big question right now. It could hint on the existence of a mastermind behind all this.
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Old 2013-11-04, 21:50   Link #1198
darksassin
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Originally Posted by Quol View Post
I think that we might be looking at this incorrectly, rather than saying that food was not programmed to have taste it could also be safe to assume that maybe the taste of food was taken out when using the menu to prepare food and only a chief could bring back the taste.
That is possible too.

Another theory is Elder Tale game becomes its own alternate reality. Elder tale was probably just a game, but after the Apocalypse, it isnt a game anymore. It become its own reality. Unlike earlier theory, it is the other way. A world that has only "game" laws suddenly have "reality" laws. There are pros and cons in both theory, but the end result is practically the same and indistinguishable : A reality that has both "game" and "reality" laws
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Old 2013-11-04, 21:56   Link #1199
blackwhite67
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Originally Posted by Quol View Post
I think that we might be looking at this incorrectly, rather than saying that food was not programmed to have taste it could also be safe to assume that maybe the taste of food was taken out when using the menu to prepare food and only a chief could bring back the taste.
Well, Elder Tale was originally just a game so maybe it's more accurate to say the food made by the menu never had taste to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
One way or the other, I didn't get why it has to be that way. Whether there was an ulterior motive or reason in-universe why those foods have to be tasteless, that's my big question right now. It could hint on the existence of a mastermind behind all this.
That's my conclusion to. The realistic elements present in the need to defecate and wash along with the food that only has taste when cooked manually implies intent. Assuming that there is a mastermind, I would guess that the intent behind all this is to force players to accept Elder Tale as their new reality. With this in mind, there might not even be a way to return to the original world.
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Old 2013-11-04, 21:59   Link #1200
Tenzen12
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Rather than saying it's either Real or Programmed world, it looks to me like both literaly merged together and have traits of either of them into some degree. And sometimes like in meals cases there is some incompatibility...

...or something like that.
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